SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #30

[LeeBee]

I'll keep saying John List. Offed his entire family + momma because of financial problems. And far fewer by a mile than AM here. JMO

John List yes! I was thinking about List days ago with this case. I was a kid when it happened and remembered how no one knew where he went.

 

[Lillymac]

CW has an exhibit for every occasion for the lawyer about town.

My favorite moment of the day was when he pulled out that photo of Alex flaunting his badge at the hospital. Looked like that blindsided Alex, and his lawyers too. And this was after he was protesting so emphatically earlier in direct against any allegation that he was fixing witnesses.

This was even more satisfying after watching the Netflix show, Alex comes out looking very bad with his corrupt behavior after the crash. Actually his whole family looks bad, obstructing this way and that. Even John Marvin does his part.

I liked it when he asked AM if he'd practised the I don't remember answer all night because that was the only answer he was giving. AM may as well plead the fifth!! Saying I don't know is refusing to answer. You know full well he remembers . If he doesn't remember, what is he really sorry for??

 

[tmar]

All of these things while the people he stole from scraped by just to exist.
These people are vulnerable, suffered huge losses, and often had life long injuries.
He is the most deplorable type of human that exists.

Waters is great.
In the past, we were given names of AM's stealing, over many years.
Now we are hearing of individual people, their injuries, their losses, 'how they managed', while this evil wealthy creep, manipulated their monies, so be could benefit+++.
This surely, will paint AM in an extremely poor light with the Jury.
"He often lied, looking into client's faces, but cannot remember this'!!!

 

[Colorado303]

What are the murder related questions people here would like the prosecution to ask tomorrow?

For me:
1. If you had just seen MH at the kennel, why did you need to call/text her a number of times to tell you were going to Alameda?

2. On direct, it was unclear which way you tried to move PM to check on him. You said on the side of the car. What does that mean?

3. What was the conversation you had with MM and PM at dinner? What topics were discussed?

4. There was an email about pills found. Had your wife and son confronted you about your relapse?

5. Did MH know that you had stolen money from clients? Did she want to know about the lack of money in the checking account?

6. After walking up to Paul and tugging on his belt loop then walking over and touching Maggie, why did you not have a single splotch of visible blood on your clothes or shoes?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Even if you ignore the still unanswered timing problems, Alex's explanation for his kennel lie does not work by its own logic, simply because he wouldn't have known what time they were killed when he first made his lie. They could have died 5 minutes before he got back for all he would have known. He wouldn't have known that this lie would have helped him if he didn't actually know when they were killed. It'd be really weird for him to think they died before he left the property, so he would have no reason to cover up being at the kennel with them.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

6. After walking up to and touching Maggie, walking over to Paul and tugging on his belt loop, why did you not have a single splotch of visible blood on your clothes or shoes?

Because he only touched him by the tippy tip tip of his fingertips.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm not fully understanding the cross on the financial crimes. The state can only use the financial crimes to show motive -- they can't use it to prove bad character. But the cross seems to be focused on his bad character. I know his credibility is in issue, but I'm finding this messy. JMO.

The witness is actually testifying.

Therefore the prosecutor can impugn the credibility of the witness.

Especially the central factual issue at trial is why did the accused lie about being at the kennels. Accused now offers a version inconsistent with numerous pretrial statements. Therefore the prosecutor wishes to demonstrate that the witness is someone who lies all the time, not only in a business or family context, but especially to those he owed a fiduciary relationship and were vulnerable.

It will be the states argument in closing that no testimony / statements from the accused should be accepted, unless verified by other sources.

 

[mrjitty]

SC Rule 404(b): Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts. Evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show action in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible to show motive, identity, the existence of a common scheme or plan, the absence of mistake or accident, or intent.

This isn't character evidence. They are not trying to prove he is guilty because he did other crimes.

Rather, the accused opened the factual issue of his 'real reason' to be at the Kennels. The prosecution is entitled to demonstrate that the accused is a liar who has no credibility.

 

[mrjitty]

Unknown assassins of unknown motive were hiding in the woods waiting for a one minute window for Alex to leave because they only wanted to kill the mother and son not the much more repugnant father, while using the father's guns to commit the crime? It's called reasonable doubt, and not any imaginable possible doubt pulled out of one's nethers.

Agreed

The defence would need to point to at least some evidential foundation for this

Otherwise it's just wild speculation.

Basically the 'evidence' for the theory is the obvious lies told by AM in the first minutes to law enforcement. Investigators follow the evidence. They don't have to investigate wild theories that the defendant invented.

 

[mrjitty]

At the end of the day Judge Newman said the cross went to AM's credibility, which is fair game for all witnesses. So I guess that answers my question. But it is a bit messy I think.

OK - i see you answered this. Yes - this was the correct ruling.

The critical thing is the accused himself advanced this testimony, therefore opened the issue of his own credibility

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, this is no longer an issue. We heard it straight from the mouth of AM that he did not spend the millions he stole from clients on pills.

The only reason the $50K became a talking point was that the defense was trying to make up reasons to match the evidence (i.e., recent payments to cousin Eddie).

It's a shame at this trial that we don't have the forensic evidence of where the money is or where it went.

I think we need to take a nuanced view to motive - because it is often an internal logic to the accused rather than some objective thing that can make sense. i.e. we often don't get the "murdered because of the affair/money" clarity.

To me what is critical is the deteriorating position of the accused in the run up (reveal of financial crimes, boat accident, separation) followed by a consistent pattern of obstruction (lying, destruction of evidence, fake roadside shooting)

The rising tension pre murders and pattern of obstruction post murders bookend neatly IMO

To me it is reasonably clear he was under huge financial pressure, and the victims had to be got out of the way - exactly why does not really matter.

 

[mrjitty]

Even if you ignore the still unanswered timing problems, Alex's explanation for his kennel lie does not work by its own logic, simply because he wouldn't have known what time they were killed when he first made his lie. They could have died 5 minutes before he got back for all he would have known. He wouldn't have known that this lie would have helped him if he didn't actually know when they were killed. It'd be really weird for him to think they died before he left the property, so he would have no reason to cover up being at the kennel with them.

Exactly! This is my opinion as well.

Why did he start lying immediately when he had an alibi and the real killers might have been arrested at any moment?

 

[Elley Mae]

And looking at the extended timeline provided...

Paul's phone backlight comes on at 10:20

Alex calls Rogan at 10:21..
Alex calls Rogan at 10:24
Alex texts Rogan at 10:24
Alex tries to facetime Rogan at 10:25
Alex tries to facetime Rogan at 10:30


Yep he picked that phone up at 1020 and put it down. That call directly after tells me that much.

Then another interesting thing is he calls Buster and Nolan calls Buster.. so seems Buster answered Nolans call, but not Alex's.. then Alex calls Brooklyn White, then Tracy White..

THEN Buster calls Maggie NOT Alex.

Then Alex sends a group text to Buster, Brooklyn and Tracy with urgent call me

Then Buster calls Alex

Just found it interesting that Alex is calling Buster and his girlfriend and instead of returning that call Buster calls his mom.

Thank you for this, I just knew there was a reason he called Rogan so many times.

 

[Vern]

Now pawpaw was the perfect son and friend, really?

My hearing must be off because I keep seeing "PawPaw", but I swear what I'm hearing is, "Paul Paul" just with a southern drawl.

 

[BrownRice]

My opinion is that Alex has brain damage. His statements were totally incoherent for the first 30 minutes. What was going on inside his mouth, the lip licking?? Lord Have Mercy. Mark my words, he, too, will have an Alzheimers diagnosis within the decade, if. not. sooner.

I don’t think so. He has an extremely good memory of the people he swindled, certain details. He can be country boy charming in one minute and then turns on his more sophisticated character the next. To me, he seemed very coherent and aware.

As we age, I feel like we are all one step away from a form of dementia!

 

[Edvis]

CW has an exhibit for every occasion for the lawyer about town.

My favorite moment of the day was when he pulled out that photo of Alex flaunting his badge at the hospital. Looked like that blindsided Alex, and his lawyers too. And this was after he was protesting so emphatically earlier in direct against any allegation that he was fixing witnesses.

This was even more satisfying after watching the Netflix show, Alex comes out looking very bad with his corrupt behavior after the crash. Actually his whole family looks bad, obstructing this way and that. Even John Marvin does his part.

The Netflix show was like watching The Lowcountry Mob at work.

 

[Edvis]

(Clipped for brevity)
So.....do you think the *Real Killers* would find it difficult to travel another 300 Yds to *finish the job*?
After all....They went through the trouble of executing his wife and child....so why leave a *Stone Unturned* when they can go for the *trophy shot* ?? They (*Killers*) must have been surveilling the kennel for a sufficient period of time to verify that ALL THREE were present at some point in time, so why let AM leave? AND... if he did so, why not finish him off at the house?

Agreed why not just clean house!.

 

[Katrinepa]

They asked for them to go before AM. The state objected to that and Judge Newman said no, that it would have to be in the afternoon

I agree with vls here. Also trying to interrupt the flow of Cross examination. A ploy by Harpootlian impov

 

[BrownRice]

Thank you for this, I just knew there was a reason he called Rogan so many times.

You mean RoRo?

 

[Katrinepa]

I have just finished listening to Waters showing how horrid AM has been, for many years, cheating, lying, stealing: an evil creep.

I only hope, he can show AM lying about the day of the murders, kennels etc, because, proving AM lies about stealing, and has no empathy for others, may not lead the Jury, to believe he killed Maggie and Paul: a wonderful family man!!!

Hope others here, aren't as worried, so I can sleep tonight, waiting calmly for 'next episode'.
Would it be ALLOWED for Defence, to coach AM now, about his mistakes so far, and what to look out for in tomorrow's cross?
Could this be discovered, if not allowed, and occurs?

Really worried!!!!

Yuk

I'm also worried about the verdict, as a Juror handed AM a box of tissues, and that's inappropriate IMPOV, leading me to think that person is already in favor of his BS. Remember, this Mob has been influential for many years/generations. Ugh.