SC SC - Tammy Kingery, 37, North Augusta, 20 Sept 2014

[TexasT]

I had not heard of the Tammy Kingery case until I saw the Disappeared episode. All of you have made some insightful comments. I'd like to add one more.

You know what I found strange? Park in the episode mentions he sent his 13 year old out into the woods to look for Tammy. Park explained his reason for this by saying his son is an Eagle Scout or whatever.

Doesn't that explanation kind of sound like a non sequitir? It's not really the point whether the son is a Scout or not. The POINT is that did Park really want to send his son out into the woods to find his mother hanging from a tree? Or, find her with her brains blown out? Or, find her being held hostage by a rapist? Or, even simply find her sitting in the middle of woods in some altered mental state?

Yes, if the kid is 16? 17? I could see it. But a 7th grader? By himself? Under conditions where the suspicion is that she did harm to herself? What father would really want to inflict that kind of horrible scene on his young son? Or, what kind of father would send his son into the woods to possibly get abducted himself?

Given all that, I think if I thought long and hard about this enough, I might be able to convince myself that Park sent his son into the woods because Park knew his son wouldn't see or find anything that would scar the kid for life.

You raise some good questions however it seems like at that stage he's more concerned that she was ill or fallen than being abducted or suicide, I could be wrong and would need to watch the timeline again .

He makes pretty clear about his frustrations of being micro managed and Monday morning quarterback for everything he did or said . Especially from those that haven't went through it .
Could it be that he knew she wasn't there because she took off with someone vs him being responsible ?

Mixed results on the polygraph could be showing deception on a single question , but we'll never know what those were since they aren't released .

Although behavior seems a little odd at times under that kind of stress i don't see any huge red flags or multiple issues .

TT

 

[snowboots]

I had not heard of the Tammy Kingery case until I saw the Disappeared episode. All of you have made some insightful comments. I'd like to add one more.

You know what I found strange? Park in the episode mentions he sent his 13 year old out into the woods to look for Tammy. Park explained his reason for this by saying his son is an Eagle Scout or whatever.

Doesn't that explanation kind of sound like a non sequitir? It's not really the point whether the son is a Scout or not. The POINT is that did Park really want to send his son out into the woods to find his mother hanging from a tree? Or, find her with her brains blown out? Or, find her being held hostage by a rapist? Or, even simply find her sitting in the middle of woods in some altered mental state?

Yes, if the kid is 16? 17? I could see it. But a 7th grader? By himself? Under conditions where the suspicion is that she did harm to herself? What father would really want to inflict that kind of horrible scene on his young son? Or, what kind of father would send his son into the woods to possibly get abducted himself?

Given all that, I think if I thought long and hard about this enough, I might be able to convince myself that Park sent his son into the woods because Park knew his son wouldn't see or find anything that would scar the kid for life.

Yes, also thought it was odd he sent his son out if he suspected it was suicide.

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[Wc77mitch]

The mysterious illness: Morning sickness? It can explain some of the symptoms. It also provides more motive if she had an affair and the child were not PK's. The symptoms may have been worse due to her depression.

 

[SassyBenton]

For those of you who think she ran off with someone, may I ask, how would she be living now, in total seclusion with no contact to the outside world? She would have no photo ID, no Driver’s License, no Social Security Card, no Birth Certificate, nothing, which means she couldn’t work, drive, set-up any kind of account, basically she wouldn’t be able to do anything and someone would have to completely support her while also hiding her for the rest of her life. This just really doesn’t seem that plausible to me and as far as I know there was absolutely no indication she was planning on leaving her family. Yes, she was talking to other men on the phone and possibly having an affair, but the truth is thousands of people do these things every day and most of the time they don’t run off, it’s not like what she was doing wasn’t that uncommon.

My Theory:
This woman was diagnosed with clinical depression aka major depressive disorder and had attempted suicide before, those are major indicators that she very well could’ve gone off to do herself in. It sounds like she was going through medication withdrawal and if she was coming off antidepressants who knows what state of mind she was in. I believe she went off and committed suicide somewhere, there was no indication she was planning on running off with someone else and she took absolutely nothing with her, because she knew she wouldn’t need any of it.

 

[Ghetto Spaghetti]

Would like to direct this post to Bulldog........you know the family, it seems, right? I'm so sorry if I sound insensitive, directing questions at you when you, of everyone in this forum, are personally affected by this case.

Anyway, here's the thing: if PK killed her, we'd have to believe he is savvy enough to both commit the crime and conceal her body. He had to have anticipated pinging cell phones, his and hers, and plan his searches carefully before he called the cops. If he killed her, he can't exactly lead them to her body because physical evidence would surely undermine his carefully crafted focus on her depression and potential suicide. So, he would either need for her to not be found for a very long time or not be found at all. He would have to either kill her in a way that left no evidence at all or clean up evidence in a way that left the home looking normal. None of this would be easy to do. It would take serious planning and a meticulous attention to details, an efficiency in rolling with that which you can't possibly control, like who turns up to search, when, and where. My question to you is, does he have the chops for this? Is he that sharp? Do you think he has these capabilities? I'm not asking you to say he did it, I promise. The rest of us just don't have any personal knowledge of him, you know? If he's a moron who can barely find his way home by himself, do we think he would be capable of this level of planning? I mean, he started making calls pretty early on, so he had to be certain he'd covered all bases, right? If he was guilty, it would benefit him greatly to have as much time as feasible pass before getting anyone else involved. He could easily have waited a while after finding her note to rally the troops, even possibly citing relief that TK had decided to engage in some physical activity (which you know she would've been instructed to do by a physician because it's proven to help depression). Any insight you could offer would be appreciated.

Personally, I lean towards suspecting PK but I don't know that this is fair. I tend to cut things down with Occam's Razor, so to me, the simplest explanation is usually right, which would be he killed her. 90% of the time, this is the case. Would explain why tracking dogs didn't pick up her scent and his immediate alarm that she was missing. I personally don't think anyone planning to walk away from their lives or go off and commit suicide would put themselves in the position to not have a vehicle. Human nature would encourage you to get as far away from your familiar zone as possible to do either, and she had no vehicle. But at the same time, I can't convince myself PK did it. Sorry this post ended up so wordy and long

 

[snowboots]

Yeah, I've been thinking about the dogs too, and why they weren't getting anything if he gave LE the "scrubs she was wearing that day." He could have taken her somewhere in a vehicle OR he could have given the police clean scrubs to throw the dogs off.

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[TexasT]

For those of you who think she ran off with someone, may I ask, how would she be living now, it.

Happens All the time . Are you familiar with Michele Witaker ? She was missing for 6 years from SC . Was found in Oregon working at a ranch . It was on season 1 disappeared episode " the last truck stop " if ud like to watch .

TT

 

[CircuitGuy]

Happens All the time . Are you familiar with Michele Witaker ? She was missing for 6 years from SC . Was found in Oregon working at a ranch . It was on season 1 disappeared episode " the last truck stop " if ud like to watch .

In that case they found her when they discovered she had started a new life for herself and had a website that was some variation of Michele-Whitaker.com. She wasn't even hiding. Everyone searching for her must have felt foolish.

 

[CircuitGuy]

Things that bug me: The note she left (which was tested and proven to be her handwriting by LE). Family said she usually texted.

I did not find leaving a note odd if she were going for a short walk. A note on paper does not interrupt her husband with a text and only reaches him if he comes in and wonders where she is. It also is available to anyone, e.g. her daughter or any friends or relatives who have a key, who might stop by.

 

[OldSteve]

Saw the ID show.... they mentioned she didn't leave notes, would text instead... so why a note now? They did not mention if the note was dated, only that it was her hand writing.

 

[CircuitGuy]

You know what I found strange? Park in the episode mentions he sent his 13 year old out into the woods to look for Tammy. Park explained his reason for this by saying his son is an Eagle Scout or whatever.

Doesn't that explanation kind of sound like a non sequitir? It's not really the point whether the son is a Scout or not. The POINT is that did Park really want to send his son out into the woods to find his mother hanging from a tree? Or, find her with her brains blown out? Or, find her being held hostage by a rapist? Or, even simply find her sitting in the middle of woods in some altered mental state?

If he had some evidence she committed suicide or was abuducted, I would think he'd never send a 13 y/o out. Her colleagues said she was agitated and saying her blood pressure was high. If he's still hoping she just left due to agitated delirium or to work through the nervous energy of her condition, I can easily see him sending his son out. I don't know much about 13 y/o's, but my 7 y/o is sometimes a baby and sometimes a little man. If he's in the little man mode, in a stressful situation I might give him a simple task a few years beyond his age that I know he can handle. Taking action to solve the problem calms him.

So thinking ahead to when he's 13 if his mom were missing, I'd assume it will tern out to be some misunderstanding. I could easily imagine saying, "Could you check the backyard and the woods beyhind the house? I'll check the front and in the house. We'll meet back in 15 minutes." My wife knows he acts like this around me, but she rarely sees the little man behavior. It's stereotypical, but in a stressful situation he wants to hug his mom and take action with his dad.

 

[CircuitGuy]

He didn't fail his poly. He said that LE told him that there were some things that didn't SEEM right and said it was questionable. That's a far cry from failing.

Also, there is a reason that polygraphs aren't admissible in a court of law. They are notoriously unreliable. Trust me, I know this from vast experience in my line of work (now retired).

Do you think LE wrongly thinks polygraphs are reliable? If not, then they're just a tool to throw suspects off balance. They say there are something that don't seem right, and a guilty person gets nervous and possibly thinks they're onto something they know nothing about. This could trick the suspect into revealing more.

Did someone on the show say he was worried he would fail because he's been afraid of polygraphs since childhood. I never thought about them as a child and have never even known anyone asked to take one, so I haven't thought about whether they scare me.

Anyway, from your work experience, does LE a) really trust polygraphs, b) use them primarily to psych criminals out, or both a and b?

Thanks!

 

[JLSChook]

Do you think LE wrongly thinks polygraphs are reliable? If not, then they're just a tool to throw suspects off balance. They say there are something that don't seem right, and a guilty person gets nervous and possibly thinks they're onto something they know nothing about. This could trick the suspect into revealing more.

Did someone on the show say he was worried he would fail because he's been afraid of polygraphs since childhood. I never thought about them as a child and have never even known anyone asked to take one, so I haven't thought about whether they scare me.

Anyway, from your work experience, does LE a) really trust polygraphs, b) use them primarily to psych criminals out, or both a and b?

Thanks!

It is actually both a) and b). Polygraph examinations are merely a tool that LE uses along with every other tool in their arsenal. They can absolutely show deception but there are a wide number of variables wrt to polygraphs that can show deception without deception actually being present. (Medications, lack of sleep, mental disturbances, and just normal nervousness). LE finds the tests helpful but by no means do they rely on them for conclusive answers.

On the flipside (your "b), YES, LE uses this specific tool to "psych out" perps on occasion. For example, if a strong suspect passes a poly or it is inconclusive, LE can use that to their advantage to get more info out of the suspect.
They have also been known to out and out lie about the results (which is well within the law in most jurisdictions) to see if it may rattle the perp into a confession.

 

[OldSteve]

Do you think LE wrongly thinks polygraphs are reliable? If not, then they're just a tool to throw suspects off balance. They say there are something that don't seem right, and a guilty person gets nervous and possibly thinks they're onto something they know nothing about. This could trick the suspect into revealing more.

Did someone on the show say he was worried he would fail because he's been afraid of polygraphs since childhood. I never thought about them as a child and have never even known anyone asked to take one, so I haven't thought about whether they scare me.

Anyway, from your work experience, does LE a) really trust polygraphs, b) use them primarily to psych criminals out, or both a and b?

Thanks!

Interesting question.... IMO the accuracy depends upon the openness of the person being tested.... say for example a husband feels guilty about having had fights with his spouse that may have even gotten a bit physical, or who played around behind her back, or is into kinky things - if he can't be open, IMO with these things rattling around in his mind alarm bells can go off when tested...

 

[snowboots]

I think it is an odd (and convenient) for him to say he has been afraid of lie detector tests as a child. An "inconclusive" result can mean nervousness, for sure, but can't it also mean that someone is doing something to 'cover' their answers - moving around too much etc? He may have studied techniques to sabotage his test if he didn't think he could pass it.

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[Wc77mitch]

Saw the ID show.... they mentioned she didn't leave notes, would text instead... so why a note now? They did not mention if the note was dated, only that it was her hand writing.

The note was confirmed to be her hand writing, the question is was it recent and why would she leave a not. It could have been an old note found lying around. Or it could have been something that was used to buy time.

 

[FormerBulldog]

To kind of answer some of the questions aimed towards me, which does not bother me in any way. I will help and clarify any way possible!

Yes, I personally know the people involved. Some better than others and some longer than others. I try to word my responses here as if I was saying them to their faces, even though I'm attempting to hide behind some semblance of anonymity.

I can't say exactly what makes me feel this way, but I don't have a lot of faith in the police department that handled the disappearance. From the very beginning incorrect information was spread without it being confirmed. The first flyers spread on FB had her walking on the street with a hard rock cafe backpack or something. They were so quiet about everything that maybe it just seems like nothing was done. Now we hear about searches and lie detector tests and dogs and helicopters, but who can say? As we have sadly learned first hand this year, life is nothing like a crime TV show where we get a confession in 48 minutes. I wonder what would have happened if a missing persons team from an area that deals with this more often had handled it.

I'm sure there are people here that can talk about this with more expertise than I can, but cell phone towers can give a general area of where someone is, but its hardly an exact pinpoint of location. There was a missing person case out of TK's hometown last year that ended tragically after a few weeks. Many search parties were dispatched to the last town where his cell phone had pinged, but he hadn't been there at all. I remember watching a show that explained that if one cell tower is busy, a cell can ping off another tower down the line. So, sure, his cell phone pinged in the area and so did hers. Nobody accused anyone of driving a great distance.

PK, I know you read this board, or at least you used to. I will say this in the gentlest way I can: I would not describe him as a particularly shrewd or cunning individual. He's a bit of a party guy, laid back, likes loud music,likes drinking. He is not overly pretentious or intellectual. I can't imagine him as plotting and planning to kill Tammy and pulling off some great murder. He's not that guy. I've always maintained that IF he was involved, it was heat of the moment or an accident. No conspiracy, no premeditation. I think what sticks in my craw lately is that he dropped the oldest son off with his grandmother. If memory serves, Cameron was four at the time, nearly five. At that age a kid can be left in the car, they don't always have a full grasp on any situation.

I've never known a killer, at least that I'm aware of. Since this all happened I feel like I'm at risk of staring too hard, straining to listen to PK, reading too much into his words. Have you known murderers personally? Did they pass, or could you tell something was off?

I apologize if I repeat myself. I've discussed this a dozen times now over the last year and a half. I'm too lazy/busy to go back and double check myself.

Has anyone ever asked TK's employer if there was a discrepancy in the med counts in the time before she disappeared?

I don't know if I've ever shared on here what I truly believe and I don't know that anyone really cares. I believe Tammy waited for an opportunity to harm herself, and it happened that morning. There's a specific kind of depression I've seen in my group of friends between 35-40. We thought we'd be more settled by now. Our relationships aren't what we'd hoped, we struggle financially, we are as insecure as we were in high school. I know there have been a lot of searches, but at least where I live, corpses can hide really well, and that's when nature doesn't intervene.

 

[mtnlites]

Personally, I lean towards suspecting PK but I don't know that this is fair. I tend to cut things down with Occam's Razor, so to me, the simplest explanation is usually right, which would be he killed her. 90% of the time, this is the case.

I know we seem to be split down the middle on this one but, to me, PK being involved is NOT the "simplest explanation." To me, it's a very complicated one. He would've had a very short window of time to kill her, do his errands, and conceal the body-and not just anywhere but someplace where it STILL hasn't been found.

I think the simplest explanation is that, due to her history of mental illness, she was suffering from depression and had some sort of breakdown. I believe she walked to the end of her road to the main road, flagged down a vehicle, and went somewhere else. I believe, at that point, she either took on a new life or killed herself, believing that her loved ones were better off without her.

Let's face it, there is nothing the husband could have done to make him look less suspicious, especially since there is a lack of clues in this case. We are so used to seeing the spouses as the perps that our hinky meters rage at the sight of them. If he WAS the perp then I think he would've covered his tracks better. That note wouldn't have just said she was "going for a walk." It would've said she was leaving for good. Or something else that drew attention away from him a little more and had investigators looking farther afield.

 

[OldSteve]

I think it is an odd (and convenient) for him to say he has been afraid of lie detector tests as a child. An "inconclusive" result can mean nervousness, for sure, but can't it also mean that someone is doing something to 'cover' their answers - moving around too much etc? He may have studied techniques to sabotage his test if he didn't think he could pass it.

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We think alike! Considering notes weren't used in the past, if the info in the show was correct, a note does buy time by preventing an immediate response. But what puzzles me is who is it buying time for? It works both ways...

 

[OldSteve]

I think it is an odd (and convenient) for him to say he has been afraid of lie detector tests as a child. An "inconclusive" result can mean nervousness, for sure, but can't it also mean that someone is doing something to 'cover' their answers - moving around too much etc? He may have studied techniques to sabotage his test if he didn't think he could pass it.

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Oddly enough, I too fear lie detectors, being a hyper kind of person .... so I can relate. Would think a good tester knowing this in advance (I would hope he mentioned this to the person admin the test) would take this into account...