Search of MR's house Aug. 14, 2013

[Ghostwheel]

Thought I'd put up information that might help people better understand what can and can't be sealed on a search warrant. The following case is from Teller County, CO. It was originally a sealed warrant.

Notice pages 8 and 9 in this document where it states that the search warrant including the affidavit, and the application for the search warrant, the probable cause testimony (exhibit A), and other specifics in regard to what they are looking for (exhibit B), is sealed indefinitely or until termination of the case.

Extrapolating from this example, the only thing necessary for them to have disclosed to MR in executing this warrant would be the fact that there is a warrant on file, and that it corresponds to the location. It is not clear from this search warrant file if they were required to leave a copy of the things taken with the owner, or just to the judge as an after search report.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2011/06/27/9786761/189202-Colorado_search_warrant.pdf

As always - except where referenced - all of the above is MOO! :cow:

ETA: It would appear that in the above case, the only thing that would need to be presented to the owner of the property (in this case a vehicle) would have been pages 1 and 2. Attachment "B" is mentioned, but stated as attached. I would assume that LE would let the subject know that there is an order sealing anything mentioned on those first two pages, or perhaps serve them a copy of the judge's order along with the first two pages.

Thank you for the attachment.

According to these particular search warrant papers, the things sealed are the application for warrant, application for affidavit, affidavit, and attachments A and B. The actual warrant or list of items taken are not sealed and "a copy of this warrant must be left with the person whose premises or person is searched along with a list of any and all items seized at the time of it's execution". It occurs to me that LE would not be required to show these other items (affidavit, applications, etc) even if they were not sealed to whomever is being served, but those documents would be available for the person being searched to view as public record if said person had knowledge of the existence of such documents.

What I get out of this is that information in the sealed documents of the MR search warrant could have any of the following in the sealed information:
Where or whom information came from
What information caused the application for a new search warrant
The specific items they were looking for
Items they were looking for but didn't find there
What made them decide to take those items
Other things that they might come back for if they are currently missing and turn up
Affidavits made by people whom they don't want known as informants

The information that lead to the application for a search warrant could have come from anywhere, including Mark himself. JMO

 

[aust amateur slueth]

IMO the order wasn't sealed to prevent MR from sharing, as we know he has told media about some things that were taken (fire poker, carpet, floorboards) and done (hole dug under outside staircase).

IMO the order was sealed to prevent MR from being alerted to either evidence found in the last search of his home or to protect the identity of an informant. LE wouldn't want him being able to damage the integrity of the investigation.

 

[Salem]

Salem, I read through that report on Pine River Times, and I don't see where it states within that article that the reason the judge sealed the warrant was "so that MR could not share it this time". Is that a fact, or is that opinion as to the reason behind the order?

I'm just wondering because there is a lot of speculation following this post, but I haven't seen anything reported that details the reasoning behind the judge's decision to agree with the request for the warrant to be sealed, or for that matter why detectives petitioned for that order - all I'm seeing is "no comment".

As for why a search warrant would/should be a secret at this time, I can personally think of many reasons why, but it would all be speculation.

As always, all of the above is MOO! :cow:

Sorry Redhead72. I didn't phrase that very well. I didn't mean that was the reason that the warrant was sealed. I just meant that MR would not be able to share it, because it had been sealed. With the first warrant, MR gave copies out and they were posted here and other locations on line.

Salem

 

[margarita25]

Oh my goodness...I just saw this thread...Wow! (I was just logging off too to go to bed! So much for that!!) Look forward to reading the article, watching the video and reading all your posts...yikes!

Thanks Salem!

 

[margarita25]

Quoting myself for reference:

Oh my goodness...I just saw this thread...Wow! (I was just logging off too to go to bed! So much for that!!) Look forward to reading the article, watching the video and reading all your posts...yikes!

Thanks Salem!

Unfortunately this seems to be proving to be too much for my brain and eyes right now after all day here at WS on Alexis' and Adrienne's threads. I look forward to looking at this with fresh eyes tomorrow!

Justice For Dylan! Its nice to see you guys...its been been a while!

(*haven't read any posts yet, but find the fireplace poker interesting...Would MR keep it around if it potentially contained evidence?).

<edit: crap, just burned my noodles...how do you burn noodles?! :banghead: >

 

[keyleigh]

IMO, someone would keep a fire poker if they thought that perhaps they had cleaned it significantly and the body (sorry Dylan) had been disposed of in a place not likely to be found. If it were to be found, it would be um, not in a state for any evidence of the poker as a weapon to be found on it.

All my opinion etc. :seeya:

Of course, LE being wonderful and having all sorts of ways to find the minutest piece of evidence means that the plan is flawed, but perps always seem to think they have the answers. :facepalm:

 

[wendiesan]

This is a bit O/T.

I find the determination of LE and the forensic technicians in this case to be fascinating. IMO, after LE discovered DR's remains, the investigators shifted their focus. The speculation and explanations I've found on this and past threads led me to check suggested sites, and then to further explore writing that would give me a better understanding of the highly detailed work performed by forensic technicians.

When I found this site

(https://www.unodc.org/documents/scientific/Crime_scene_awareness__Ebook.pdf)

I was intrigued by the first quote. Even though this was written long before our digital age, and the incredible scientific breakthroughs we take for granted, I think it still has the ring of truth. No wonder LE investigations take longer sometimes than anyone wishes, when the obligation to find the truth of an incident has such tremendous repercussions.


*************************************************

Wherever he steps, whatever he touches, whatever he leaves, even unconsciously, will serve as silent evidence against him. Not only his fingerprints or his footprints, but his hair, the fibers from his clothes, the glass he breaks, the tool mark he leaves, the paint he scratches, the blood or semen he deposits or collects - all these and more bear mute witness against him. This is evidence that does not forget. It is not confused by the excitement of the moment. It is not absent because human witnesses are. It is factual evidence. Physical evidence cannot be wrong; it cannot perjure itself; it cannot be wholly absent. Only its interpretation can err. Only human failure to find it, study and understand it, can diminish its value.

Kirk, Paul, Crime investigation, John Wiley & Sons Canada, Limited, 1953
*********************************************************************

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

This is a bit O/T.

snipped for space...
*************************************************

Wherever he steps, whatever he touches, whatever he leaves, even unconsciously, will serve as silent evidence against him. Not only his fingerprints or his footprints, but his hair, the fibers from his clothes, the glass he breaks, the tool mark he leaves, the paint he scratches, the blood or semen he deposits or collects - all these and more bear mute witness against him. This is evidence that does not forget. It is not confused by the excitement of the moment. It is not absent because human witnesses are. It is factual evidence. Physical evidence cannot be wrong; it cannot perjure itself; it cannot be wholly absent. Only its interpretation can err. Only human failure to find it, study and understand it, can diminish its value.

Kirk, Paul, Crime investigation, John Wiley & Sons Canada, Limited, 1953
*********************************************************************

This whole quote is fantastic! Love it! IMO the task force in Dylan's case is not encountering the human error described above. They seem determined, bright, qualified and right on top of the forensics. And (again moo) very close to making a move.

 

[iSleuth]

I went through the old threads on swabs taken in the living room of MR - way back in nov 2912 "the couch, table , floor and a band aid. "

 

[MissJ]

I'm thinking/hoping the perp in this case was way too self confident and did leave many clues. After a couple of months with everything frozen, I think he thought he was in the clear. JMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

IMO, someone would keep a fire poker if they thought that perhaps they had cleaned it significantly and the body (sorry Dylan) had been disposed of in a place not likely to be found. If it were to be found, it would be um, not in a state for any evidence of the poker as a weapon to be found on it.

All my opinion etc. :seeya:

Of course, LE being wonderful and having all sorts of ways to find the minutest piece of evidence means that the plan is flawed, but perps always seem to think they have the answers. :facepalm:

I was wondering if the fireplace poker were found somewhere other than inside the house, like under, near or on the back stairs where the hole was dug underneath. Or even in the garage or front porch. Just thinking that it might not have been found where we might assume it would be found. Same with anything else taken.

 

[MissJ]

I was wondering if the fireplace poker were found somewhere other than inside the house, like under, near or on the back stairs where the hole was dug underneath. Or even in the garage or front porch. Just thinking that it might not have been found where we might assume it would be found. Same with anything else taken.

Excellent thinking here! Never thought about it like that!:moo::rockon:

 

[cluciano63]

I feel like a cheerleader on the sidelines, i.e "Go, LE". Want an arrest so much in this case.

 

[SCHMAE]

I feel like a cheerleader on the sidelines, i.e "Go, LE". Want an arrest so much in this case.

Nice. Yes the ball is in LE's court for sure. We'll see what they've got.

 

[iSleuth]

To add also swabs at mr's house were taken of a " pipe" and we had a lot of questions about this at the time. I wonder if that is the fireplace poker thingie which was confiscated during last week's search.

 

[carbuff]

To add also swabs at mr's house were taken of a " pipe" and we had a lot of questions about this at the time. I wonder if that is the fireplace poker thingie which was confiscated during last week's search.

I assumed the pipe was a drain pipe somewhere -- the shower drain, a utility sink, the kitchen sink, a floor drain in the basement, etc. etc. -- that was being swabbed to see if there were traces of blood.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I assumed the pipe was a drain pipe somewhere -- the shower drain, a utility sink, the kitchen sink, a floor drain in the basement, etc. etc. -- that was being swabbed to see if there were traces of blood.

yes, I believe you're correct in that the "pipe" was associated with the washing machine, if I'm not mistaken.. just from memory I believe that's what the "pipe" was associated with that was mentioned in the search warrant 10 days after Dylan was reported missing..jmo.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Also, I haven't seen azgrandma around lately.. I hope everything is well for you and your boys, azgrandma:hug:

 

[carbuff]

yes, I believe you're correct in that the "pipe" was associated with the washing machine, if I'm not mistaken.. just from memory I believe that's what the "pipe" was associated with that was mentioned in the search warrant 10 days after Dylan was reported missing..jmo.

That sounds right. I need to go back and re-read all that stuff -- I don't remember nearly enough details.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'd really like to gather all of Mark's statements regarding that fishing pole. It's not like a pack of gum or a watch... fishing poles are unlikely to get wedged down the back of the sofa, you know? I'd love to know where it turned up, exactly.. and when.

I just get the feeling there were attempts to direct the search toward certain areas - which perhaps involved some subsequent backtracking - though it's not really more than a dark suspicion right now. I'm just not feeling up to digging through -all- the statements and such yet (flu recovery in progress) but when I am, I'll be gathering those 'hints' and 'wonderings' Mark made while the search was fresh, and then those made later on and comparing them to each other and then to where Dylan's partial remains were found..

Might be nothing. But worth a look, imo.