Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[Caylee Advocate]

WOW, if only. This gave me a slight chill just reading it.




http://therese-a-saurus.blogspot.com/2013/03/if-travis-alexander-had-his-day-in.html

 

[Caylee Advocate]

1/24/2015

Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More:


He never gave her the BMW. He lent it to her to go get the truck. Curious, isn't it, that she didn't use her own car to do that? She accidentally on purpose destroyed his BMW on the way back.

The money she wasn't paying him was for the huge repair bill. According to Chris Hughes, Travis had it towed to a garage. It was still at that garage when he was killed.

But her audacity didn't end at destroying his car. Again according to Chris, he was contacted by an attorney after Travis' death. The attorney was handling the disposal of Travis' assets. He called Chris to ask if it was true that the BWI belonged to JA; that JA had contacted him and said that Travis had given her the BWI and she wanted to claim possession.

Chris (after whatever initial reaction) told the attorney....NO. Not true. So the attorney asked JA to send him proof that Travis had given it to her. She DOCTORED an email exchange between Travis and herself and forwarded it to the attorney.

Chris said it took only a few minutes for the two of them to figure out JA had done it. She didn't get the car.



TX Jan posted this on 1/24/2015


Thought I'd add this to keep it all together - what she told Det. Flores:

DF: Yeah.

JA: and even when things were bad between us, he was always…he would give his last…He would give his last dollar…his last whatever. He um…He was selling me his BMW, and I was actually supposed to e-mail

DF: Yeah, you mentioned that. You kind of burned it out or something.

JA: Yeah. Well, you said you found my check…in his house?

1:06:52
DF: A check…Oh yeah…the check that you gave him for a payment.

JA: Yeah. I made…Um…I guess like I…it’s just so dumb, like it seems so unimportant but I guess I need to know if that check (giggles) is going to be deposited any time soon?

1:07:07
DF: No. No. After his death it can’t be deposited. So…

JA: Really…?

DF: Yeah.

1:07:12
JA: Okay. Well, then I’ll just consider that…whatever and I’ll still owe him the full balance until they figure out what they‘re going to do. Honestly, I trashed his car and he took it so well. Um…we were trying to figure out between my lawyers and his lawyers and Prepaid Legal and the insurance and U-Haul who was going to be held liable and, you know, it didn’t matter who was held liable, the fact was, that was a debt that I promised to pay and it’s just money and it isn’t worth, you know anything so um…I mean as far as him getting any (?) tensions over so um…He would never…He never had any doubt that I would pay him back but he was trying to do what was difficult because he was trying to um…work with the insurance um…to hold U-Haul accountable over how it had all gone down. He said the engine just blew up

1:07:57
DF: Now the vehicle was still in his name, correct?

JA: Yeah. He still has the… He was going to hold the title until I paid it, the balance in full.

DF: Okay. Did you guys have a written contract or anything?

JA: I had yeah … what I did is I typed out an e-mail to him and I sent it and um…I just wrote back, “Just reply, I agree if you agree with this,” and he wrote back um…something about you didn’t say anything about you’re on your own insurance and so I said, Okay and amended that, I think, and then wrote back to him, and so that was our agreement. Our agreement was I pay him what I can each month until the balance is paid off, and I…I take care of general maintenance like oil changes and tires and things like that.

1:08:30
DF: I don’t know what’s going on with that, with his car or anything or if it’s still at the shop, but his family

JA: I think it’s sitting there collecting dust um…

DF: Yeah, his family is dealing with that because it’s still considered one of his assets and it goes in…

1:08:42
JA: Oh…

DF: you know, so…

1:08:45
JA: Yeah, and I was told, and I probably shouldn’t have done this, but I didn’t know who to get a hold of or who was doing what and I should have asked Dan first but I e-mailed his sister, Tanisha, on MySpace, and I was like, just sent her my condolences and the next paragraph I was like you know, it’s really hard but I owe Travis this amount of money and I know that at one point I’ll need to settle this debt…you know that kind of thing, but if you need to be in contact with me, this is my phone number and she didn’t get back to me and um…you know…

1:09:14
DF: Well, you know when a death occurs like this everything has got to go to probate anyway…

JA: Yeah, and I realize now but there’s a Mike Chapman the executor of his will and so I did get in touch with him yesterday and he said um…just give me all the information you have on that matter and then we’ll go from there and decide what’s going to happen.

 

[Nymeria]

Found the texts on 1/8/08 on BK site

Clancy: I want you to call me

Travis: I want u naked. We can't always have what we want

Clancy: Brat, Call me! or answer!

OK, I remember the Clancy from the trial and though...this can not be the same woman.
I had to go google her pic to be sure...it the same person.
Isn't she much older than Travis was?
I mean, I thought her to be in her mid 40's to early 50's. Maybe she is just one of those people with an "older look".
Not saying she in unattractive, just seems like she would not be in Travis' age range of potentials.

 

[TexMex]

OK, I remember the Clancy from the trial and though...this can not be the same woman.
I had to go google her pic to be sure...it the same person.
Isn't she much older than Travis was?
I mean, I thought her to be in her mid 40's to early 50's. Maybe she is just one of those people with an "older look".
Not saying she in unattractive, just seems like she would not be in Travis' age range of potentials.

She was in his phone as Clancy T



She's the one next to Jodi

 

[ICit]

Wasn't Travis taking Ambien? If you could cook a turkey dinner and not remember it later, couldn't you participate in a groggy sex tape too?

I have searched for the Ambien reference and cannot find it. Do you remember where you saw it?
After listening to the phone conversation and because I know that TA would not have touched alcohol, I came to the conclusion that he was either drugged by her or talking in an Ambien haze. It is so obvious that the tape was spliced and that he has varying degrees of wakefulness during these different splices.
I believe it is quite possible that the final argument was about that con job she pulled on him in regards to the tapes.

 

[geevee]

I have searched for the Ambien reference and cannot find it. Do you remember where you saw it?
After listening to the phone conversation and because I know that TA would not have touched alcohol, I came to the conclusion that he was either drugged by her or talking in an Ambien haze. It is so obvious that the tape was spliced and that he has varying degrees of wakefulness during these different splices.
I believe it is quite possible that the final argument was about that con job she pulled on him in regards to the tapes.

Being Mormon and considering the list of things they are to avoid, would Travis take Ambien (or any other narcotic-type drug) no matter how bad his insomnia was? Was he actually insomniac or did he just get used to being up half the night because that was when he needed to do his PPL work (as he referenced in some of his texts)?

About the sex tape, could I have some clarification from Hope, Caylee, Pocket, etc? The splicing together was done by Dworkin/Neumeister/defense and not JA, is that correct? She only saved portions of conversations and when LD pulled them off the phone, he or BN put them together as one long string when he was amplifying T's voice and defense played it as such (one long convo instead of the 5 or so separate pieces), is this correct?

 

[TexMex]

Being Mormon and considering the list of things they are to avoid, would Travis take Ambien (or any other narcotic-type drug) no matter how bad his insomnia was? Was he actually insomniac or did he just get used to being up half the night because that was when he needed to do his PPL work (as he referenced in some of his texts)?

About the sex tape, could I have some clarification from Hope, Caylee, Pocket, etc? The splicing together was done by Dworkin/Neumeister/defense and not JA, is that correct? She only saved portions of conversations and when LD pulled them off the phone, he or BN put them together as one long string when he was amplifying T's voice and defense played it as such (one long convo instead of the 5 or so separate pieces), is this correct?

Testimony was splicing and amplification was done by the defense experts, yes

 

[Hope4More]

Being Mormon and considering the list of things they are to avoid, would Travis take Ambien (or any other narcotic-type drug) no matter how bad his insomnia was? Was he actually insomniac or did he just get used to being up half the night because that was when he needed to do his PPL work (as he referenced in some of his texts)?

About the sex tape, could I have some clarification from Hope, Caylee, Pocket, etc? The splicing together was done by Dworkin/Neumeister/defense and not JA, is that correct? She only saved portions of conversations and when LD pulled them off the phone, he or BN put them together as one long string when he was amplifying T's voice and defense played it as such (one long convo instead of the 5 or so separate pieces), is this correct?

I'd like a link about the Ambien, please. According to what the told Flores in one of the pre-arrest phone interviews, TA refused to take so much as an aspirin. He was radically anti-drugs, no doubt because of his parents.

I don't think he was an insomniac, he just had a regular routine of going to bed in the early AM and getting up mid-morning. He prided himself on being a power-napper to make up any difference.

He did have one long stretch of self-described insomnia, in mid to late May, when he was agonizing over Lisa, but that seemed to be atypical for him.

 

[Hope4More]

Testimony was splicing and amplification was done by the defense experts, yes

Also depends on what's meant by splicing. The DT put (spliced) portions together of what they said was a single conversation that took place on May 10. Was it ever explained how they knew all 5 pieces came from the same day?

The other "splicing" is what JA might have done, as in, taking separate recordings she'd made elsewhere to make a tape on her digital recorder, then playing that tape to record it as a single conversation on her Helio.

Deborah Moran, iirc, has an excellent analysis on her blogspot about why the sex tape couldn't have been recorded on the Helio.

Should I ask whether or not you're considering a new rabbit hole?

 

[SweetT]

Yep. But Jodi was already "suspicious" of Clancy because she'd spied on some emails and texts she considered "flirtatious"

Wonder if it was taped, would that tape have made it to Clancey's boss, or Clancey's husband? I vote the latter knowing Jodi. I bet she wanted it taped to use it against her in more ways than one.

 

[Hope4More]

Wonder if it was taped, would that tape have made it to Clancey's boss, or Clancey's husband? I vote the latter knowing Jodi. I bet she wanted it taped to use it against her in more ways than one.

I doubt it was actually taped. What struck me was how ugly the suggestion was, and how transparently false JA's motivation was. Clancy's boss would think it was funny? Really?


Same thing with Danny Jones, on the "May 10" call. Remember how hard she pushed to get TA to leave a public derogatory comment on DJ's FB page? Including saying something like, don't let him intimidate you, you'd do it for anyone else, giggling the whole time.

She sounded pretty disappointed when TA said he preferred not to humiliate people in public.

(BTW, don't think it was a coincidence that she had no such hesitation , and left DJ exactly such a comment on his FB, just before May 26).

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The only time I recall Ambien being "remotely" discussed (but it was not about Travis) was Dr. Drew did a show during trial and towards the end of the show they were talking about Anderson Cooper and Ambien. Just when we think we have all the ducks lined up, one gets out of line lol. Does the poster have a link or reference.. anything??


Oh, people on FB (State) were floating the theory a long time ago, but only as a "what if" I don't think there are any facts though, at least none I recall.

 

[pocketaccent]

I'm sure the BMW was still unrepaired at the time of his murder. Beyond that...I can't remember in the slightest where I read it or if I'm accurately remembering the gist of this, but think UHaul was absolved of any responsibility and TA's insurance company did pay out, but only after his death, and it was paid to his estate.

I think there was discussion a long time ago that the reference by TA on May 26th to being scammed may well have had to do with the BMW. And according to Chris, JA said in her May 26 email that she would be calling an attorney on Monday.

Any possibility she had lied to his insurance company or to Davis or to UHaul and was trying to have reimbursement for the damages sent to her rather than to Travis?

(PS, Pocket. Thank you for your most excellent company down here in the still-steadedly- sleuthing-rabbit hole.

Our ranks have diminished mightily, so I'm all the more grateful you're still diving deep too).

I think that is a possibility if Travis' insurance co did not make a payout until after his death. 'You scammed me' fits perfectly too.

If we can only find out why she had to see an attorney for...JM must know why, right?

I just read Caylee's post below yours (JA and Flores phone interview).
She reiterates again that her check should be in T's house. - LE finding her back-dated check is VERY important to her. The check is dated May 25, one day before May 26.

She also attempts to insinuate again that Travis was not mad she destroyed his car. She includes this in her doctored journal,too. I can't believe that. Travis would have been very upset, as anyone would be.

PS- This case is still so intriguing to me. Still has too many unresolved mysteries, especially the June 4th circumstances.
I thank you too for all your timeline analysis, your wisdom, and all of your humorous sarcastic remarks that make me lol. Putting together Journal entries, text messages and testimonies, so they make any sense, is not an easy but a very laborious task that requires intelligence. You do it so well!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Hope being sarcastic? No way, say it ain't so. :thinking::great:



What a beautiful day, I think I will go jog in the park. Laterz

 

[salberg7]

Maybe he just never expressed how angry he was to the killer over the BMW because he just wanted her gone at that point? That was almost the day she left for Yreka, he was too happy she was leaving he didn't express any anger to her because she may have taken it as a reason to stay. We will actually never know because she lies so much. I haven't read the Hughes' book - was the BMW incident discussed in their book? I will bet he was so angry, but never expressed it to her. He just wanted her gone. She did end up sleeping in the UHaul those last days. He never asked her to stay at his house again.
I believe she wrecked that car intentionally because of her psychopathy to get back at him and to stay connected to him in any way she could.
I forgot that she had the audacity to email Tanisha about the BMW. But she did have the nerve to ask for Napoleon.
I think he was so done with her he just let her think the BMW was no big deal. I'm sure she was driving him absolutely crazy with her meddling, stalking, etc.
Poor Travis. If only he'd have held firm June 4 and not engaged with her sexually. I still do not believe he ever knew she was coming to his home in June. But you can't blame the guy- I am pretty sure he never expected her to attack and kill him.
Thank heavens she's put away. She is a danger to society.

 

[Hope4More]

FROM JM’S CLOSING ARGUMENT, MAY 2013



TRAVIS IM’S TO REGAN, MAY 19……. & PREMED


……..But things were not going so well at that point. And in fact by May 19th of 2008, just nine days after that, Mister Alexander is on the computer, this instant messaging service, with somebody named Reagan Housley.

And he’s talking to her and he says “I’m extremely afraid of Miss Arias, because of her stalking behavior."

How prophetic of him! Back on May 19th, and this is nine days after this telephone call. But he’s extremely afraid of her because of this stalking behavior.

Little does he know that he has less than a month to live.

And so he is aware of it. He’s in the best position to know what is going on between the two of them because he’s the one that’s going through it. And so when he makes that comment, that comment is indicative of what is going on.

(LaVa says) If you take a look at that statement, Mister Alexander was making it all up. Wasn’t true. He was just saying it. Because you know and another part of the instant messaging, they were saying “ah ha.. hi Jodi read this”.. or words to, whatever it is they were saying.

(Note—TA told Regan he knew JA had slashed his tires, that JA was likely snooping their IM at that moment, and told Regan to say hi to Jodi. Regan replied-“I’m going to totally do it with you.&#8221

And so the Defendant doesn’t want you to pay any attention to that. But that certainly goes, and it’s the beginning of pre-meditation. Her pre-meditation to kill him.


Back on May 19th of 2008. He indicates that "I’m extremely afraid the Defendant because of her stalking behavior." And who would know better than him?

Especially since he’s the one that’s had to deal with her coming over, peeping in his window. He’s the one that’s had to deal with her showing up unannounced.

He’s the one that’s had problems, or damage to his car according to Lisa Andrews. And he’s the one that has her underneath the Christmas tree. And has had a ring stolen by her. So he would know that.

 

[Hope4More]

From JM’s Closing Argument, May 2013.



MAY 26.


….And so then, what ends up happening is that some time passes. And May 26th shows up. One of the important things about May 26th is that, that is the day they break up. And much is made by the Defense that well during much of these conversations he’s mean to her.

Well why wouldn’t he be mean to her? Yes there are names that people are being called, that’s correct, there are not any nice names. But he is extremely afraid of her stalking behavior on May 26th when those names are called.

And there is anger that is being exchanged back and forth and he sort of capsulizes it by saying, or using a term that’s not quite so sexual, but really capsulizes what’s going on here and how the Defendant attempts to manipulate the truth, when he says “I am nothing more than a dildo with a heartbeat to you.”

That’s what he tells her, because that’s how he feels. That’s how she makes him feel.

And yes, he uses all of those other words but he is also very derogatory about himself. He knows what’s going on.

Every time, according to that statement, whenever she wants him, the way that she manipulates him is through sex. He does make that comment. And that comment was made on the 26th of May in that Instant Message.

But you don’t ignore what else is going on, on the 26th of May of 2008.

On that prophetic day he also tells her something else in Exhibit 450 – She’s apologizing to him. Again she’s manipulating him. She does something, she apologizes, and everything is supposed to be okay.

But by this time, he has had enough. And he says “I don’t want your apology. I want you to understand what I think of you.” That’s what he’s telling her. He’s telling her that he wants her to understand what it is that he thinks of her.

He says “I want you to understand how evil I think you are.” At that point when he’s writing that he is extremely afraid of her because of her stalking behavior. And he does think she’s evil.

And, how prophetic, looking at these next words, how prophetic, how absolutely prophetic – no one can dispute that those are the truest words that are spoken in this case, and they’re spoken by Mister Alexander, even though he is not here, through his writings.

“You, Jodi Arias, are the worst thing that ever happened to me.” Any doubt that that’s the truth? Do we need to look at the pictures of his gashed throat? Do we need to look at the sort of frog- like state that she left him in, all crumpled up in that shower?

Or do we need to look at his face where she put that bullet in his right temple - to know that what he says there is true. “You are the worst thing that ever happened to me.”

He’s telling her “Enough is enough.” And yes, he’s angry. Absolutely angry after everything that she has done to him.


Well he’s had enough. And yes, he says “You are the worst thing that ever happened to me.”

And then he says, in this Exhibit 450, “You are a Sociopath.” No, he does not have a Psychology degree.

But that certainly expresses a feeling about what she says, what she does, and how she deals with him, how she always is manipulating him.

It teases this anger out of him and tries to mix in the sex and he says “You only cry for yourself.”

Well, you saw her crying on the witness stand. Can anybody debate the reason she was crying is because she cries for herself? After all, she never intended to be caught. She said that so herself after she lied to the Police. “Oh no, I was saying that because I did not want to be caught.” And so, you only cry for yourself.

And then he [Travis] says “You never cared out me”, supposedly that could be ‘for’, “and you have betrayed me worse than any example I could conjure.” She has betrayed him.

For whatever reason he believes that she has done something that is, that is absolutely horrific.

And he’s telling her “I’ve had it. I’m done with you.” And again, this is May 26th. He’s done with her.

“You are sick and you have scammed me.”

Again, she has scammed him. Are you going to allow her to scam you? - is really the question from this text message.

Are you going to buy the lies? Are you going to believe what she tells you?

 

[Hope4More]

IT WASN'T ALL ABOUT THE SEX. HIS REASONS FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO RID HIMSELF OF HER CHANGED OVER TIME, BUT THERE WAS ONE CONSTANT, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, AND IT WASN'T SEX.





SKY HUGHES ON DR. DREW http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1304/30/ddhln.01.html


SKY: She had been obsessed with Travis, you know, very early in the relationship. You know, I think Chris talked about how, you know, she had this some sort of vision or something that she was going to marry him.

And it was like after that point, I think it was in December, like she would not let that go. And she wouldn`t let him go. And, you know, I mean all sorts of very disturbing behaviors.

She had written Travis -- or sent Travis an anonymous e-mail that she got from a stalker, from a man that had been watching her. And this e-mail said, you know, "you`re so beautiful." "you`re so amazing" and "Travis doesn`t deserve you."
And you know, how -- just how incredible Jodi was and how awful Travis was and that he was watching Jodi`s every move and that Travis was too far away to protect her.

And this is at a time when Jodi was trying to get Travis to ask her to move to Arizona. And Travis, you know, he didn`t know her that well.

PINSKY: Did this guy exist?

SKY: No.

PINSKY: She made that up?

SKY: No. She completely made it up. And Travis, he said, I was doing dishes, and he said hey, there`s something I want to read to you. And he brings it and he starts reading it. And I started laughing.

And he got really -- he says Sky, he says, this is very serious. I`m really worried about this. And I said, Travis, Jodi wrote that. You know, Jodi wrote that e-mail. He`s like --

PINSKY: Did he believe you? He didn`t believe you.

SKY: No. He said, Jodi would never do anything like that. You know, she`s so nice, why would she do this?

And I said because she`s been wanting you to ask her to move to Arizona. You know, this was Jodi. This was so immature, so manipulative, you know?

MARK: Sky, it`s my understanding that it got so bad for you that you turned to of Travis, and you said, I mean in no uncertain terms, you must break up with her.

And apparently, his response was, I can`t, because she`s going to kill herself.

MARK: Is that correct?

SKY: Yes.

MARK: And do you feel in your heart like you did everything you could to get him away from her?

SKY: You know, more than once, we`d have these conversations. And I was really, really hard on Travis. And, and I would tell him, you know, there`s just something not right. She`s obsessed with you. You know, these behaviors are very frightening, and I said just stop talking to her. Just stop calling her.

And he said, he said you don`t understand. She says she`s going to kill herself. And I said she`s not going to kill herself.

And he said no. He said, you can`t guarantee that and I can`t live with myself if she does.

 

[TexMex]

Sociopaths manipulate/work the target (Travis) into codependent toxic relationships. Travis wanted to be done with her and tried to break away (especially on May 26th). Sociopaths, however, use the emotions of others against them. Threats of suicide, personal drama, sexual feelings. It's all manipulation all the time. This was not his fault. She's a psychopath Like he asked her "why did you manipulate me into loving you. I was a good guy.." He says several times he's addicted (co dependent). They had a pattern of arguing, manipulation -which included sex , then back to communication He continued contact even after she moved. When he rejected her in such a personal way, including threats to expose her to others, IMO it triggered her sick, twisted borderline brain where she felt almost like he was threatening HER life. He's rejected me! Now he also says he's going to alert others to me? Me? How dare he tell people? So he had to die so she could move on. She could date others without him saying...hey dude...careful...she slashed my tires. She won't have to worry about who he talks, texts, emails or travels with. He will never reject her again. So she steals a gun, rents the non descript car, borrows gas cans, turns off her cell phone and heads to Mesa. She knows the pattern. It only has to repeat one more time for her premeditated plan to work. Sadly it did. She was his kryptonite.

 

[geevee]

Also depends on what's meant by splicing. The DT put (spliced) portions together of what they said was a single conversation that took place on May 10. Was it ever explained how they knew all 5 pieces came from the same day?

The other "splicing" is what JA might have done, as in, taking separate recordings she'd made elsewhere to make a tape on her digital recorder, then playing that tape to record it as a single conversation on her Helio.

Deborah Moran, iirc, has an excellent analysis on her blogspot about why the sex tape couldn't have been recorded on the Helio.

Should I ask whether or not you're considering a new rabbit hole?

LOL No, not considering a new rabbit hole, just wanted to be clear without having to hunt up LD and BN's testimonies to see if they stated such as I couldn't recall specifics about how it became the one long recording we've all heard. It does make me wonder if the sex part was all she was going to blackmail him with or if there were other pieces (didn't BN say exactly how many pieces he found? I think he did but can't remember a number) that weren't allowed during testimony and had to be excluded from the mashed together version. Well, maybe that is a shallow rabbit hole at that. lol