TrialWatcher
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I agree that Arias was a psychopath. They can be very charming and are goal orientated.
Travis seemed perfectly capable of
Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5
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I agree that Arias was a psychopath. They can be very charming and are goal orientated.
Travis seemed perfectly capable of
geevee
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I'm not Hope but I think what she meant is JA told Travis she did not have his journals so he wouldn't have been expecting her to bring them to him.
The point being there is no foundation in reality for asserting he welcomed her because she was bringing him the journals she'd stolen.
Did Zach for sure come back in the afternoon of the 4th? I thought he had misremembered which day he'd done so? But I really don't remember for sure anymore...but think maybe.
La Louve
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IMO Something of value being dangled like the proverbial carrot would have been exactly the type of thing for which he would let her into his house. Her coming clean about the journals would have spoken to his deep sense of integrity. It would have made him think she was finally capable of being honest with him, of admitting her deceit, of turning the page in their relationship, and each moving on in their lives. I think it would have given him a much-needed sense of closure on the whole Jodi chapter of his life.
La Louve
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That's my recollection too.
La Louve
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Thanks for clarifying. What's your opinion on the stolen journals? Do you think 281129 stole them?
TrialWatcher
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A psychopath could hide excitement and premeditation.
What evidence is there for date rape? The evidence suggests that Travis was a willing participant in sex. His texts to Arias on May 10 - show a fight - followed by her sending him pics and Travis appreciating them, calling her honey. Travis tells her she looks beautiful in all of her pics. He tells her she is smoking hot - mere weeks before June 4.
You refer to him being devastated in all of the pictures. There are two naked bedroom pictures of Travis. I don't read devastated from those. Travis is taking the pics of Arias, as detailed in Juan Martinez' book. He could easily have overpowered her - such was the vulnerability of her positions.
What happened after the sexual interaction photos is a different matter. I'm open to the idea that Travis was forced into the shower pics as the poses seem unnatural. The hours between the nude bedroom pics and the shower pics - I'd like to know more about.
Earlier you posted about what was going through Travis' mind in the shower. Have you analysed Travis' own words - describing how he dealt with a gun threat in his past?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaEzgX5t5T?
TrialWatcher
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It's perfectly reasonable to speculate that Arias may have brought a 'peace-offering' to convince Travis of her 'goodwill' That didn't have to be declared in advance and could have taken away the sting of a sudden arrival or even intrusion. I've speculated that Arias offered him a sex session - something they discussed in May - with the reassurance of him having something on her. Photos on his camera would be an 'insurance policy' - should she threaten him in future. It may have been the check, the CDs or a combination of all three.
A question, in the abstract. Forget Travis and the for the moment.
A fellow, let's call him John, has been tangled up with a sociopathic ex-GF he just can't seem to shake, partly because she refuses to let go, and partly because he hasn't been able to cut her off himself. For whatever reason. Doesn't matter why for this scenario.
John's friends have warned him for months, flat out, that she is: sick, seriously mentally ill, scary, dangerous, obsessed, manipulative, and a liar. All quotes.
He thinks she's slashed his tires, twice,and the tires of the woman he considered marrying. He knows she's invaded his privacy a thousand times over. On her way out of town she messes with his PPL accounts, destroys his BMW, and writes a good bye in his private journal.
Within a few weeks of her leaving, he realizes another of his journals is missing and pleads with her to return it. She denies she took it. He's already kinda sure she took the first. He catches her in her stupid twisted lie about spies telling her what she obviously found out by snooping, perhaps even tailing him (he's told friends he often had the weird and bad feeling she was watching him, even though he couldn't see her).
She tells him directly that she used to drive around and around his house every night, and that on many nights she had snuck in and slept on his sofa, slipping out in the AM before he woke up.
She begs him to come visit him, he asks why its so important to her, she doesn't give him a straight answer. He could easily go; he was in CA one one occasion but declined to visit her then. He had no plans for Memorial Day, but declined to visit her then either.
After she leaves he feels relief at first, then increasing anger after he realizes she is still messing with him. Her intrusions become more frequent and more bizarre. She accuses him of hacking into her SM. She pretends to be someone else on Linkup, and tries to entice him to a hook up in Utah. She signs him out while he's on MySpace, over and over and over and over.
He holds her partially responsible for the loss of his almost -fiancee. In Mid-May the only other prospect he has lined up for marriage before he's forced out of the single ward bails on him; in talking with her he finds out she didn't receive an important email he'd sent her.
He increasingly confides in friends about his ex, what she's done and is still doing. His confidantes are universally creeped out and tell him that. After catching her as MariaM, he backs away from her, big time. No more contact until she confesses, in writing.
His ex contacts him on the 25, tells him she has to tell him something that involves the 2 of them, and that one part is so incriminating she refuses to put it in writing.
He's angry about what she tells him, because he has 2 years of pent up fury, because he realizes she's never told him the truth about anything, because he believes she hates him and has tried to destroy him on purpose. He tells her for 2 hours how evil he thinks she is, how much a *advertiser censored*, how much a liar. He tries, desperately, to get her to admit she's slashed his tires, stole his journals, isn't sorry.
Perhaps he tries one last tactic after 2 hours, and tells her he's addicted, never mind everything he's said. Perhaps he really means it. Either way, he gets on the phone with her immediately after saying that to her, telling her- just say you're not sorry.
Does she say that to him? No. Does she admit to anything? No. She spits in his face by sending him an email within 3-4 minutes absolutely denying the tires or journals, the very transgressions he is most positive she's lying about. In those same few minutes he tells her he is done.
He doesn't initiate contact with her again. He responds by phone once, and only once, after she's harassed him for hours to talk with her about "somethings" she needs to tell him. He responds to her odd texts several times- texts that he may well have read into that were related to May 26 and talk of a lawyer. That's it. Whatever she tells him in their only verified phone contact after the 26th, it isn't that she's coming to visit him.
He thinks she's 1000 miles away, and has no reason to believe otherwise. He's restless and can't sleep for several days after their May 26 confrontation, but that's in part because he has decided that he too must come clean, with his almost-fiancé, no matter how difficult that is.
He thinks she is 1,000 miles away. He doesn't return her calls or text her on the 3rd. He stays up until after 4AM on the 4th and goes to sleep.
No matter when or how he wakes up, no matter where or when or how she ambushes him in his own home, how could his first response NOT be anything other than fear? How could he NOT have flashed back on all his friends' warnings about her? How could he have-- and why would he have- in that moment, or the next, or the next, put aside what he had thought of her on the 26th and even before, as after May 19th he routinely referred to her as psycho?
THAT moment, the moment of ambush, is IMO the beginning point for any reasonable interpretation of what happened on June 4.
And it forms for me the near certainty, IMO, that whatever happened for the rest of the day was based on fear, not flattery or manipulation or forgiveness or denial or amnesia.
A fellow, let's call him John, has been tangled up with a sociopathic ex-GF he just can't seem to shake, partly because she refuses to let go, and partly because he hasn't been able to cut her off himself. For whatever reason. Doesn't matter why for this scenario.
John's friends have warned him for months, flat out, that she is: sick, seriously mentally ill, scary, dangerous, obsessed, manipulative, and a liar. All quotes.
He thinks she's slashed his tires, twice,and the tires of the woman he considered marrying. He knows she's invaded his privacy a thousand times over. On her way out of town she messes with his PPL accounts, destroys his BMW, and writes a good bye in his private journal.
Within a few weeks of her leaving, he realizes another of his journals is missing and pleads with her to return it. She denies she took it. He's already kinda sure she took the first. He catches her in her stupid twisted lie about spies telling her what she obviously found out by snooping, perhaps even tailing him (he's told friends he often had the weird and bad feeling she was watching him, even though he couldn't see her).
She tells him directly that she used to drive around and around his house every night, and that on many nights she had snuck in and slept on his sofa, slipping out in the AM before he woke up.
She begs him to come visit him, he asks why its so important to her, she doesn't give him a straight answer. He could easily go; he was in CA one one occasion but declined to visit her then. He had no plans for Memorial Day, but declined to visit her then either.
After she leaves he feels relief at first, then increasing anger after he realizes she is still messing with him. Her intrusions become more frequent and more bizarre. She accuses him of hacking into her SM. She pretends to be someone else on Linkup, and tries to entice him to a hook up in Utah. She signs him out while he's on MySpace, over and over and over and over.
He holds her partially responsible for the loss of his almost -fiancee. In Mid-May the only other prospect he has lined up for marriage before he's forced out of the single ward bails on him; in talking with her he finds out she didn't receive an important email he'd sent her.
He increasingly confides in friends about his ex, what she's done and is still doing. His confidantes are universally creeped out and tell him that. After catching her as MariaM, he backs away from her, big time. No more contact until she confesses, in writing.
His ex contacts him on the 25, tells him she has to tell him something that involves the 2 of them, and that one part is so incriminating she refuses to put it in writing.
He's angry about what she tells him, because he has 2 years of pent up fury, because he realizes she's never told him the truth about anything, because he believes she hates him and has tried to destroy him on purpose. He tells her for 2 hours how evil he thinks she is, how much a *advertiser censored*, how much a liar. He tries, desperately, to get her to admit she's slashed his tires, stole his journals, isn't sorry.
Perhaps he tries one last tactic after 2 hours, and tells her he's addicted, never mind everything he's said. Perhaps he really means it. Either way, he gets on the phone with her immediately after saying that to her, telling her- just say you're not sorry.
Does she say that to him? No. Does she admit to anything? No. She spits in his face by sending him an email within 3-4 minutes absolutely denying the tires or journals, the very transgressions he is most positive she's lying about. In those same few minutes he tells her he is done.
He doesn't initiate contact with her again. He responds by phone once, and only once, after she's harassed him for hours to talk with her about "somethings" she needs to tell him. He responds to her odd texts several times- texts that he may well have read into that were related to May 26 and talk of a lawyer. That's it. Whatever she tells him in their only verified phone contact after the 26th, it isn't that she's coming to visit him.
He thinks she's 1000 miles away, and has no reason to believe otherwise. He's restless and can't sleep for several days after their May 26 confrontation, but that's in part because he has decided that he too must come clean, with his almost-fiancé, no matter how difficult that is.
He thinks she is 1,000 miles away. He doesn't return her calls or text her on the 3rd. He stays up until after 4AM on the 4th and goes to sleep.
No matter when or how he wakes up, no matter where or when or how she ambushes him in his own home, how could his first response NOT be anything other than fear? How could he NOT have flashed back on all his friends' warnings about her? How could he have-- and why would he have- in that moment, or the next, or the next, put aside what he had thought of her on the 26th and even before, as after May 19th he routinely referred to her as psycho?
THAT moment, the moment of ambush, is IMO the beginning point for any reasonable interpretation of what happened on June 4.
And it forms for me the near certainty, IMO, that whatever happened for the rest of the day was based on fear, not flattery or manipulation or forgiveness or denial or amnesia.
Of course. The 1st one in mid-March for sure, and the second one just before she left Mesa.
Why would she steal them? Too many possibilities, IMO, some overlapping, to know with any certainty other than her motive was cruel and foul.
pocketaccent
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During her testimony, when she says something like she went through the side door (or sideway) to the garage, then to the house, what does that mean? The garage has 4 doors (1 small and 1 large car doors, a side door, a door to the house) altogether?
Have you seen any photos of the front of his house? To the right of his front door (when facing the front of his house), also to the right of his garage doors, on the right hand side of his house and a bit to the rear, there's a sidegate that leads to his backyard and the sliding glass door with the doggie door insert.
I'm thinking there might be a sidedoor to the garage after the gate? But will doublecheck. If you are still on BK, I think the handwritten transcripts have the answer about doors because the detective is very thorough in walking his interviews through, step by step, how they entered TA's house and where they went.
photo of the front of his house. There is a keycode pad for the garage to the inside left of the double door garage entrance. The interviews indicate that Taylor gave the group of TA's friends the code to enter TA's house through those garage doors. There is one door to inside his house via the garage- the door opens into the laundry room. The laundry room is on the same short hallway as is TA's office and the downstairs guest bathroom.
The knew his garage code, but IMO there is no way she entered his house that night through the garage. By her own admission her regular routine (LOL) was to go through the sidegate into his backyard. From there? he could enter via the sliding glass door, if it wasn't locked, or through his office window, after she took the screen off. My bet is increasingly on his office window,after she knew he had gone upstairs. Going in that way would have made the least noise, and she would have been least visible.
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business/NC_Travis_Alexander_mar_140709_16x9_608.jpg
Here's what his street looks like, taken from a video. Notice how obvious a car with an out of state license plate would be, and for that matter, a car parked on the street rather than in a driveway. I watched the video of a guy driving around TA's neighborhood and can't remember seeing any cars parked on the street.
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...c8635a18a29c1d5611a99e202ff.jpg?itok=Y-wUZqYz
geevee
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In Zach's follow up interview he stated he'd come home around 3:00 - 4:00 p.m., I'm pretty sure he'd mentally gone over everythign adfter the first interview and had it straight, esp. given he'd been house sitting for Amanda/parents and had goalposts if you will to remember the sequence of events of that week, not to mention the rental car he had to return that morning (should have been some paperwork to refresh his memory about that).
Flores' Report:
https://grahamwinch.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/floresinvestigationreport.pdf
Editing time expired on pics of his house. If you look at the right (east) side of his house-there are no windows or doors. Probably a cooling measure, given AZ temps. In any case...no side door to the garage, and no backdoor to the garage for obvious reasons.
Going through the side gate means she typically snuck on in through the doggy-doored sliding glass door in the backyard.
Here's his office window screen on the ground.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?...0209eb772dde7186303433H0&mode=overlay&first=1
Going through the side gate means she typically snuck on in through the doggy-doored sliding glass door in the backyard.
Here's his office window screen on the ground.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?...0209eb772dde7186303433H0&mode=overlay&first=1
Well, her timeline makes less and less sense with every deep look at it, doesn't it? 3-4PM? Supposedly, best case for her, they are in TA's office? With the door open? Talking, smashing CD's against the wall? And Zach doesn't hear a peep from them?
Was it ever verified what exactly was the computer activity at 4:30PM? About half an hour then, after Zach left?
I wonder if LE asked his roommates whether or not TA left his bedroom door open when he was home but not upstairs, or just in general. Maybe BK will be able to get the full Zach interview.
pocketaccent
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Thank you so much for the house photo! I don't like to google 'TA + any kind of photo'. When I did that once I got some gruesome photos as a result that made me physically sick.
I strongly agree with entering via the office window. Possibly through the doggie door, too.
No way she opened the garage door with the key pad. My kitchen is right above my garage and when somebody opens the door to drive in I can hear the door opening clearly even with other noises in the kitchen. I recently installed a quiet motor type and I can still hear the door opening from upstairs.
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