Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[pocketaccent]

I have to admit that I've given up on trying to figure out what happened on June 4. There is just no way of knowing, IMO, unless and until we have access to more information--probably years and years from now, after her appeals are exhausted.

All I feel I "know" is that Travis wasn't expecting her, that she didn't sneak into his house until after he had gone to sleep, and that there is no way she slept in his bed that night, so even if they did have sex, if the timestamps are correct (and I don't think they are), all the hours before 1:00-1:30ish PM are unaccounted for, same thing for between 1:47 and 5:20.

I don't believe he knew she was ( still ) in the house when he took a shower, I think she ambushed him there (the second time that day), and I think he turned towards her in the shower because she had pulled a gun on him. I think she used the gun as a prop to recreate (mock him) with his almost -died fear story, and that she likely threw the gun on the ground knowing he'd lunge for it, and she pulled out the knife as he did so.

I think she took a great deal of time cleaning up and staging the scene, and that she couldn't resist (beforehand or afterwards) going through all his texts (deleting many), searching through his papers and journals, and rifling through his wallet, helping herself to his cash.

I think she was still there when Zach returned at 3, was caught off guard, retreated to TA's office, closed the door, and that's it's likely she was responsible for the afternoon's computer activity, whenever and whatever it was.

Obviously JMO, but until and unless proven otherwise, I'm convinced Travis was courageous enough to insist upon truth, and that at a very steep personal cost (not referring to his murder), he did see her for who she was on May 26th, and that he was done with her.

Because I am so sure for myself that is so, I find it painful to keep trying to imagine what happened that day, because what I keep returning to is a haunting realization of how terrified he must have been when he first saw her, and how afraid throughout. Because of that feeling, I hope in one way he never saw her until she surprised him in the shower, because at least then he would have been spared hours of psychological torment.

Did they have sex that day? Dunno, and frankly, for me it isn't a decisive question. If they did, IMO it was coerced in the sense he was acting on survival instincts, doing whatever he had to do to appease her in order to stay alive. Travis of all people knew what her response was to even perceived slights, much less flat out rejection- he wouldn't have chanced it in that situation. He was a survivor of severe child abuse, and he was a DV victim.


He wanted to live.

(((((Hope4More)))))
I bet after you wrote this poignant piece, you logged off, and cried for awhile.

Sending you this little Bach piece I love to listen to whenever I feel sad. It uplifts me right away. I feel energized and refreshed after listening.
[video=youtube;zdBfizykF9U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdBfizykF9U"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdBfizykF9U[/video]

 

[Hatfield]

That was a very touching post Hope, and I'm right there with you. Unless we have more information, we just can't know what happened that day, we've analyzed, debated and surmised and will never get any closer to knowing until everything is unsealed, and even then I expect blank spots in the full picture. That makes me sad really, it's bad enough the mayhem she visited upon him, but to have her have the last lying words on the matter just makes my heart ache.

So true.

I cannot think of any other criminal that would be so cruel that their last words in front of the judge was instead of trying to plead mercy to the court she goes on to spew

"Oh by the way he was still alive as I was slicing his throat".

Sheeesh. What a monster.

And who cant forget the evil eye stares back at the baby child in the courtroom who accidentally was crying. Oh your heiness JA forgive my baby for making uncontrollable noises and interrupting your spewing your hate.

JA is evil personified.

I only wish when she was holding up her fake broken "Fickle Finger of Fate" as I call it from the Rowen Martin Laugh In show, I only wish Juan would have walked over to her and grabbed her finger and shook it till it broke and exclaimed
"Do you mean this finger?" as he proceeds to shake it violently breaking it in 3 places and then says....."Oh Yeah, that finger does look a little damaged now".

[video=youtube;aYG6L9jcFOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYG6L9jcFOE[/video]

 

[RickshawFan]

We discussed this some weeks ago. She uploaded the pics to Flickr on June 2 (I looked at the EXIF data) at approx. the same time she would have supposedly been with Matt and Kareem, changing the mood at a karaoke bar with her surpassingly awesome voice, after dining a bit earlier on tuna tartare.

The why? Dunno, but it's perhaps of interest that IIRC, she asked TA by text in April whether or not he had pics from that specific trip.

There must be something problematic in her time with Matt and Kareem (or not) or wouldn't have lied about it. Florid lies, too. There was some other "theme" going here, a different set up, that wasn't innocent.

For one, she must have been doing something else with the computer that she had to cover up by creating a bogus "nicey nice" Flickr account so her activity would look non-nasty.

Did Matt have a camera like Travis's? Was JA learning how to use it and trying things out? Was the Flickr thing some kind of practice run? Was it a placeholder for the shower pics? Sex pics? Cancun pics?

Was there something in the pics she posted that she wanted the world to know about that might reflect badly on TA if she pointed it out?

Was this a practice run for something else? Was the point setting up the Flickr account and not about the specifics of the pics......for the time being. Real pics later. She was going to put the video there?

It's possible JA didn't realize that Flickr doesn't really lend itself to scheming, shame-photos, horrendous videos.

Does the Red Room even have tuna tartare? How the heck much does something like tuna tartare cost?

 

[salberg7]

H4M thank you, that was a very poignant post. We'll never know what truly occurred before the monster slaughtered him. JA is the epitome of evil- to think she was justified in taking the life of someone she had affection for, a person so full of life as Travis was. If only she'd taken his example and took the path of wanting to embrace life as he did every day. What makes me especially sad is that Travis survived a horrible childhood but didn't let that deter him from realizing life is a gift. She took that away from him. She should never get out of prison. She is a menace to society.
OT I don't understand what keeps me riveted to this case. I visited Karas On Crime last night and am going to take the plunge and join. I don't have Paypal, and now I see she takes regular debit cards so I'm in. I am going to join towards the end of the week because I know that once I log in nothing in my house will get done, lol.
Rest in Peace, Travis. You are not forgotten! We are your voice in a way.
I have this thread bookmarked, carry on!

 

[Hope4More]

That was a very touching post Hope, and I'm right there with you. Unless we have more information, we just can't know what happened that day, we've analyzed, debated and surmised and will never get any closer to knowing until everything is unsealed, and even then I expect blank spots in the full picture. That makes me sad really, it's bad enough the mayhem she visited upon him, but to have her have the last lying words on the matter just makes my heart ache.

I think the last words of hers most people will remember were those she said at sentencing--that Travis was still conscious when she slit his throat.

There she was, unmasked once again by her own rage, this time fully revealing herself as an abhorrent, malicious, sociopathic monster. Even many of her most stalwart fans couldn’t rationalize those words away.

Other last words? This lowest of the low killed Travis to rob him of his voice and choices, and she’s spent years trying to destroy his reputation. She succeeded in killing the physical Travis, but she failed, utterly, in silencing his voice.

Instead, many hundreds of thousands of people around the world who followed the first trial came to know the very part of TA’s own story he felt in his last weeks most compelled to write about and share.

How could anyone (other than the disturbed) not be moved by the sheer grit and grace of this man Travis Alexander, who not only overcame his traumatic past to achieve what he did, but who, to the last, rather than succumbing to self-pity or lashing out in blame, resolved instead to better himself?

Could there be any more meaningful rebuke of the ?

And, every attempt she made to sully his reputation only served to further destroy the illusion of herself she’d so painstakingly crafted, and that she killed to protect.

Does it get any more satisfying that?

I think Juan Martinez knew the power of his narrative about what happened on June 4. What could be more contemptible, more vile, than having sex with someone you intend to kill, then slaughtering him afterwards when he is naked and defenseless?

JM’s narrative of the 4th may or may not be accurate, but it’s the narrative believed by most, and IMO it’s one that calls for profound compassion for Travis, and nothing but disgust and revulsion for his killer.

 

[Hope4More]

Wow, that's deep Hope. I am dropping anything to do with the sex talk also, for me, I really don't care anymore. I still have my firm unchanged opinion and it has not wavered. Your post brought a tear to my eye. I was sitting here thinking about a personal thing, and it made me realize.. life really is, too short. Off for the night. Hugggsss!!!

That was a very touching post Hope, and I'm right there with you. Unless we have more information, we just can't know what happened that day, we've analyzed, debated and surmised and will never get any closer to knowing until everything is unsealed, and even then I expect blank spots in the full picture. That makes me sad really, it's bad enough the mayhem she visited upon him, but to have her have the last lying words on the matter just makes my heart ache.

[QUOTE salberg7 = didn't see this until after I posted and adding a quote to a posted multi-quote is waaay over my paygrade] H4M thank you, that was a very poignant post. We'll never know what truly occurred before the monster slaughtered him. JA is the epitome of evil- to think she was justified in taking the life of someone she had affection for, a person so full of life as Travis was. If only she'd taken his example and took the path of wanting to embrace life as he did every day. What makes me especially sad is that Travis survived a horrible childhood but didn't let that deter him from realizing life is a gift. She took that away from him. She should never get out of prison. She is a menace to society. QUOTE]

(((((Hope4More)))))
I bet after you wrote this poignant piece, you logged off, and cried for awhile.

Sending you this little Bach piece I love to listen to whenever I feel sad. It uplifts me right away. I feel energized and refreshed after listening.
[video=youtube;zdBfizykF9U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdBfizykF9U"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdBfizykF9U[/video]

Pocket, I'm listening now as I try to multi-quote to write hugs and thanks. What brings tears to my eyes is how much folks here still care about what happened--what huge hearts and fine minds there are here! Hugs and more hugs, and whippersnapper Ms. Caylee Advocate, I couldn't agree more-- life is short and now is always the best time to live fully, which, BTW, if your posts are any indication, you seem to be accomplishing quite nicely.

 

[Hope4More]

PS, Geevee.

Remember telling me, months ago...pssst, Hope, you may want to check out those texts BK just put on her website? And I replied, iirc, that I was afraid to go there because I "might" get sucked in again? LOL, LOL, LOL, ........and thanks.

 

[Hope4More]

The question I most want to ask JM is when, in his opinion, the first began planning to murder Travis.

I watched (and rewatched) the trial, read his book, and have listened to/watched all his post-book interviews, and still don't have a clear answer, in part because he's said different things about when.

He's said: mid-May (1st call to DB about gas cans), May 19 (snooping Regan-TA IM's), "a couple weeks before she killed him," May 26 (suggested), the last week in May (which he's also said was the 1st time she called DB for the gas cans) and, of course, May 28.

Hey JM- with all due respect, did JA begin planning to kill Travis in mid-May? YES or NO?

 

[geevee]

PS, Geevee.

Remember telling me, months ago...pssst, Hope, you may want to check out those texts BK just put on her website? And I replied, iirc, that I was afraid to go there because I "might" get sucked in again? LOL, LOL, LOL, ........and thanks.

LOL Seems like a long road since then, huh? Your dedication, determination and desire for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but has been inspiring for us all. I heart you, Hope.

 

[geevee]

The question I most want to ask JM is when, in his opinion, the first began planning to murder Travis.

I watched (and rewatched) the trial, read his book, and have listened to/watched all his post-book interviews, and still don't have a clear answer, in part because he's said different things about when.

He's said: mid-May (1st call to DB about gas cans), May 19 (snooping Regan-TA IM's), "a couple weeks before she killed him," May 26 (suggested), the last week in May (which he's also said was the 1st time she called DB for the gas cans) and, of course, May 28.

Hey JM- with all due respect, did JA begin planning to kill Travis in mid-May? YES or NO?

I'd love to hear a definitive answer to that from him as well, we've ferreted out several points that could have been the start, and he's mentioned many of them, but he's so much more in touch with all of the evidence you'd think he'd have a pretty firm idea.

You're more aware of the appeals process than I, when does the post conviction relief come - I gather JSS has to agree to a hearing but when does that come about?

 

[Hope4More]

LOL Seems like a long road since then, huh? Your dedication, determination and desire for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but has been inspiring for us all. I heart you, Hope.

I heart you, Geevee, but again- it's all your fault, those hundreds of hours spent down rabbit holes. You're the one who has said again and again you're determined to expose her every last lie, a goal I've been really happy to share. It's been so satisfying, eh?

It's starting to sound like a farewell party, though, and heck with that. BK is still obtaining and releasing new info. Who knows what she'll come up with next? And I'm really, really hoping too that Tricia convinces JM to guest on TrueCrime to answer at least some of our many questions.

 

[Hope4More]

I'd love to hear a definitive answer to that from him as well, we've ferreted out several points that could have been the start, and he's mentioned many of them, but he's so much more in touch with all of the evidence you'd think he'd have a pretty firm idea.

You're more aware of the appeals process than I, when does the post conviction relief come - I gather JSS has to agree to a hearing but when does that come about?

First, her appeal to the COA. Transcripts of the trial record aren't completed yet, but are almost done. Her appellate attorneys will then review the whole record, looking for trial error, the only basis for appeal at this stage. After reviewing the record they'll write a brief, then summit it to the COA.

The COA is obligated to hear her appeal, but I don't know if they're bound by law to hear it within a specified time. Some state COA's are, others not.

If (when, IMO) she is denied by the COA, her freebie appeals are done. She can, at her own expense, try to take her appeal to the AZ Supreme Court. They are under no obligation to agree to hear it, and if they deny her a hearing, their decision cannot be appealed.

At that point, denied by the ASC or she never tried, her state appeals are done.

Only after that can she file for PCR and have that petition go forward. A Superior Court judge, JSS or a replacement, will review her petition. PCR will be the first time she can argue ineffective counsel or that new evidence exists that couldn't be known at the time of her trial, etc. FAT CHANCE her petition goes an inch past an initial review.

After that, in theory, she can file an appeal in federal court, but no federal court is obligated to hear her appeal either, and federal appeals are extremely expensive (retainers alone can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars).

So...years more before anything is unsealed.

 

[TexMex]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQ

The images (except two which had been overridden) contained the date and time they were created. They did not contain the time they were deleted...

13 min in

JM : let's talk about the first set of photographs 164-169 exhibits (nudes) recovered from the unallocated/deleted space of the camera. Were you able to find the date and time these images were created?


Melendez: "Typically you may not, but in this case these images when taken with this camera it embeds the date and time to the file itself."

Melendez testifies the pics all have file information and also metadata/EXIF
When a photo is taken, the camera makes two copies. One copy is the original size, and the other copy is the thumbnail that we view when we replay photos on the camera. The earlier the photo is deleted, the more of its info is overwritten. Since the sex pics were deleted first, they lost more of their information than say the murder photos, which were the last pics deleted.

Melendez said he got the information on the front of the pics from the metadata. He was indicating that he put it on the photos in red, and the reason two sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data.

 

[geevee]

I heart you, Geevee, but again- it's all your fault, those hundreds of hours spent down rabbit holes. You're the one who has said again and again you're determined to expose her every last lie, a goal I've been really happy to share. It's been so satisfying, eh?

It's starting to sound like a farewell party, though, and heck with that. BK is still obtaining and releasing new info. Who knows what she'll come up with next? And I'm really, really hoping too that Tricia convinces JM to guest on TrueCrime to answer at least some of our many questions.

I'll accept the blame for that lol...and yes, it has been my mission to honor Travis by not allowing her to get away with a single lie, as long as that may take and as many rabbit holes as must be travelled. Sorry I left a lot of that dirty work in your capable hands, it's so weird but I haven't felt ready (for lack of better phrasing) to go to BK's and read all of the writings, shoot, I have a paypal account just sitting there and waiting, but I just can't do it yet. I'd never be able to put the detailed context to it all as you have, I'll end up with a picture I'm satisified with likely, but unlikely to be able to explain to anyone else so they could understand. lol

No goodbyes here, somehow it doesn't even feel like we're at the midpoint. C'mon BK with the new info...and Tricia, get Juan!

 

[geevee]

First, her appeal to the COA. Transcripts of the trial record aren't completed yet, but are almost done. Her appellate attorneys will then review the whole record, looking for trial error, the only basis for appeal at this stage. After reviewing the record they'll write a brief, then summit it to the COA.

The COA is obligated to hear her appeal, but I don't know if they're bound by law to hear it within a specified time. Some state COA's are, others not.

If (when, IMO) she is denied by the COA, her freebie appeals are done. She can, at her own expense, try to take her appeal to the AZ Supreme Court. They are under no obligation to agree to hear it, and if they deny her a hearing, their decision cannot be appealed.

At that point, denied by the ASC or she never tried, her state appeals are done.

Only after that can she file for PCR and have that petition go forward. A Superior Court judge, JSS or a replacement, will review her petition. PCR will be the first time she can argue ineffective counsel or that new evidence exists that couldn't be known at the time of her trial, etc. FAT CHANCE her petition goes an inch past an initial review.

After that, in theory, she can file an appeal in federal court, but no federal court is obligated to hear her appeal either, and federal appeals are extremely expensive (retainers alone can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars).

So...years more before anything is unsealed.

Alrighty, and thanks, I had no idea how long before JSS would/could come back into the picture - in Michigan a trial that was held in late 2014 (Bob Bashara) is already at the PCR stage (and he got a PCR hearing that's off and on been going on for a couple months), they must have a much speedier process up there than in AZ; granted his trial didn't last for 2 years before sentencing but the initial trial was a couple months long, seems like sentencing was about a year ago, give or take a few weeks. Anyways, in for the long haul, hopefully the first two stages of appeal denials won't take as long as it is getting the transcripts filed.

 

[TrialWatcher]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQ

The images (except two which had been overridden) contained the date and time they were created. They did not contain the time they were deleted...

13 min in

JM : let's talk about the first set of photographs 164-169 exhibits (nudes) recovered from the unallocated/deleted space of the camera. Were you able to find the date and time these images were created?


Melendez: "Typically you may not, but in this case these images when taken with this camera it embeds the date and time to the file itself."

Melendez testifies the pics all have file information and also metadata/EXIF
When a photo is taken, the camera makes two copies. One copy is the original size, and the other copy is the thumbnail that we view when we replay photos on the camera. The earlier the photo is deleted, the more of its info is overwritten. Since the sex pics were deleted first, they lost more of their information than say the murder photos, which were the last pics deleted.

Melendez said he got the information on the front of the pics from the metadata. He was indicating that he put it on the photos in red, and the reason two sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data.

TexMex, thank you for summarising this so clearly. Melendez is easy to understand. Juan Martinez was thorough - going through each exhibit - covering unallocated clusters too. The timestamp evidence is strong and I have not seen any evidence that counters that of the expert witness. The defense accept the timestamps. The prosecution used them to prove to a jury that Arias was there with Travis taking photos. If there was a jot of credible evidence to prove the timeline wrong, don't you think Arias' team would have jumped on it?

Oh, well done on speaking to the camera manufacturer. You cover every base.

 

[LinasK]

IIRC, that was a tidbit from Nurmi's book. That she in her natural state is not inclined to bathe, and had to be encouraged to shower at Estrella. Showers are mandatory at Perryville, perhaps because others' stink riles up prison inmates?

BBM.
That's because she smells like a goddess, don'tcha know?

 

[Niner]

Hey all! :wave:

It's just so strange, it's hard to fathom she'd think he'd have been pleased with her posting pics of him online, in his name, without his consent, but then she never thought anyone would figure out all of the steps she took for the premeditation and murder. Sure wish JM would do Tricia's radio show and she could ask him about it, would love to know what he really thinks that was all about.

The question I most want to ask JM is when, in his opinion, the first began planning to murder Travis.

I watched (and rewatched) the trial, read his book, and have listened to/watched all his post-book interviews, and still don't have a clear answer, in part because he's said different things about when.

He's said: mid-May (1st call to DB about gas cans), May 19 (snooping Regan-TA IM's), "a couple weeks before she killed him," May 26 (suggested), the last week in May (which he's also said was the 1st time she called DB for the gas cans) and, of course, May 28.

Hey JM- with all due respect, did JA begin planning to kill Travis in mid-May? YES or NO?

No harm in asking Tricia! I'll send her an email!

and make a thread for questions to ask him - and I'm REALLY sure there are some questions from all you guys! Like Hope4More's up above ^^

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Hey all! :wave:












No harm in asking Tricia! I'll send her an email!

and make a thread for questions to ask him - and I'm REALLY sure there are some questions from all you guys! Like Hope4More's up above ^^

Hi Niner,

There is already a thread for the questions, and Tricia is working on getting Juan to grace our presence. We have all been waiting with "baited" breath for a response. Just thought I'd let you know. There are some good questions too. :happydance:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...uan-Martinez-on-my-next-True-Crime-Radio-Show

 

[krkrjx]

So true.

I cannot think of any other criminal that would be so cruel that their last words in front of the judge was instead of trying to plead mercy to the court she goes on to spew

"Oh by the way he was still alive as I was slicing his throat".

Sheeesh. What a monster.

And who cant forget the evil eye stares back at the baby child in the courtroom who accidentally was crying. Oh your heiness JA forgive my baby for making uncontrollable noises and interrupting your spewing your hate.

JA is evil personified.

I only wish when she was holding up her fake broken "Fickle Finger of Fate" as I call it from the Rowen Martin Laugh In show, I only wish Juan would have walked over to her and grabbed her finger and shook it till it broke and exclaimed
"Do you mean this finger?" as he proceeds to shake it violently breaking it in 3 places and then says....."Oh Yeah, that finger does look a little damaged now".

[video=youtube;aYG6L9jcFOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYG6L9jcFOE[/video]

BBM: And, I'd bet you are a non-violent person. I feel comfortable saying that because even the most gentle soul can be angered by this Killer's particular brand of ugliness...her twisted accusations, lies, assertions, it's all crazy making sometimes. Just the sound of her voice as she testilied grated on my nerves and all too often I fantasized of Juan taking long strides toward Killer as she sat in the witness chair spewing hatred and accusations for days on end, blaming Travis for forcing her to slice him up several dozen ways and then having the audacity to push her further where she had to fire a bullet into his head. More than once I wanted Juan to just haul off and slap some sense into that evil head of hers. I wanted it so much that a few times I actually shouted out loud for it to happen. And that surprised me because I am a non-violent person. Yet, even with trial long over and her voice silenced at least for now, I would not shed a tear if someone were to slap the carp out of the Killer.