Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[geevee]

That side street is the only place anywhere near his house she could have parked without being extremely obviously out of place, and even then, having CA plates or no plates on a car sitting there all day wouldn't have been a very good choice for someone who took so many precautions to avoid leaving any traces in AZ.

Yeah, it doesn't look like she could have parked a plateless car all day and not have had it noticed, this is curious. I was hoping to be able to post a google map with the 17 to 40 route but it will only give me the 93 option, will have to draw that route in Paint. Did they ever go to Lake Havasu on any excursion? I see it's just a short hop from Kingman, maybe a good place for weapons disposal?

 

[geevee]

When I get photos uploading again, I took several of the street that is a border of sorts to the east side of his housing development, that border being an absolute one in the sense there's nothing but desert beyond it. There is a place to park there, out of his neighborhood, but to do so would have meant walking the equivalent of 4-5 city blocks through his development. IMO, not likely on June 4th, but I can absolutely imagine her parking there on those routine nights when she waited for everyone to go to sleep before sneaking in to crash on his couch downstairs.

I was so hoping we (or well, you, since you're doing all the hard legwork lol) could at least resolve the mystery of where she parked that morning, I agree, walking that far to a car looking as disheveled as she must have afterwards was unlikely - do you think it's possible at all that she parked in the garage? Isn't his bedroom over the garage and probably would have heard the door going up and down? The window on the upper right side of the house in your pic - is that the window that's in his bedroom by the treadmill?

 

[RickshawFan]

OK. I arrived in kingman about 10 minutes ago. I left Mesa at 12:20pm, arrived about 4:20, rounded off. Four hours driving, and I'm in kingman, not across the Nevada border where she would have been when she began making calls.

I'm thinking she went on 60 (had to have), so at least one hour on that to get to 17 north. I kept going on 60, but figured out fairly quickly that she wouldn't have. 45 mph, traffic lights every other block, extremely congested, and she would have known that because 60 goes through PPL meeting burbs of Phoenix.

She had a choice of going up 17 all the way to I-40, then going east towards Las Vegas, or of going up 17 to bypass local traffic then cutting over to 60 on an east-west route that would have been 36 miles.

Going over to 60 would have put her on a fairly isolated road, especially that time of night, which may or may not have been an advantage. She could speed like crazy, but she also would have been more obvious because of the very light to no traffic.

Going 17 to 40 would have kept her most annoymous, part of a driving herd, and it's a fast route anyway, especially on 40 (75 mph).

I used to think she went 60 and then 93 so she could toss the gun and knife in the desert, but very much doubt now that she took that chance. There aren't very many side roads she could have taken along the way, and the few she would have had to go on to feel confident they wouldn't be found are roads she wouldn't have dared to go on in a economy rental car (low clearance) after dark, IMO.

I think she still had all the incriminating evidence on her when she made those first calls, and given the time frame, she must have driven very fast the whole way, not stopped to dispose of anything, and made calls at the very first opportunity. It's possible, imo, but not if anything went wrong, like an accident on 17 or 40 and a long back traffic backup.

She couldn't have gone west first, e.g. to Quartzsite, and then headed via Havasu to Kingman? Or do we have to have her phone pinging to the east of Kingman?

Does she have to have gotten rid of the evidence between Kingman and LV? She can't have burned it, right, 'cos she needed her full supply of gas with the contents of the three gas cans just to make it to Mesquite or wherever she fills up.

I'm thinking she's an interstate kind of a gal, so she went interstate as much as possible. In my imagination, she took comfort from having all those truckers around.

All she needs is a campground with a latrine to get rid of the stuff.... She may have known about a place from the time they went on that trip to Havasupai.

Now that I think of it, the fact that the foursome went to Havasupai might have given her the idea about how to make the trip north, familiarity and all. She had been to LV before, IIRC, but she had flown back to Mesa? If she drove back to Mesa from that former LV trip, I'll bet she used the same route after the murder. The prior trips would have helped her in the planning. Very important info. She knew what was out there, traffic, desert, etc. This was a very planned out trip. In general, I don't think JA is at all a one to do anything original.(That's an understatement.) Trekking across the desert if she'd never done it before, ummmmm, NO.

I can't believe I'm following all this on a map. Sucker. LOL.

 

[Kakidoll]

You also have Bullhead City, thru Golden Valley to Kingman. Plenty of deserted roads there, i've driven that road and not seen anyone for 45 minutes easy and in Golden Valley, between Bullhead and Golden Valley there is a very desolate area of desert, plus you have the colorado river in Bullhead. I've driven from Phoenix to Golden Valley multiple times and it was scary how i'd pass NO ONE for lengths of time.

 

[geevee]

Here's the map with the 17 to 40 route in red (ignore the blue, that's 93 that google wouldn't let me change), I drew down to Lake Havasu City just cuz it looked like a place she might go if they'd been there before and she was familiar with the area.

 

[Hope4More]

She couldn't have gone west first, e.g. to Quartzsite, and then headed via Havasu to Kingman? Or do we have to have her phone pinging to the east of Kingman?

Does she have to have gotten rid of the evidence between Kingman and LV?

I'm thinking she's an interstate kind of a gal, so she went interstate as much as possible.

All she needs is a campground with a latrine to get rid of the stuff.... She may have known about a place from the time they went on that trip to Havasupai.

I can't believe I'm following all this on a map. Sucker. LOL.

I agree about her being an interstate gal, especially given all the advantages of that compared to the alternatives I just saw.

There is no reason to think she must have disposed of anything before leaving AZ. I think her "coming to" in the desert moment was about finally stopping after a mad dash to near the border of Nevada. I'm not sure whether she went over into NV via Hoover Dam. Will check out possibilities tomorrow.

If she still had stuff with her and meant to go through a checkpoint I'd bet she stopped and double checked herself for blood and made sure her bundle of bloody clothes etc. was concealed.

(PS. Sucker for following on a map? Lol. Yah. Less so than finding oneself over 2,000 miles away from home, parked in front of his house taking photos.

 

[Hope4More]

She couldn't have gone west first, e.g. to Quartzsite, and then headed via Havasu to Kingman? Or do we have to have her phone pinging to the east of Kingman?

Does she have to have gotten rid of the evidence between Kingman and LV? She can't have burned it, right, 'cos she needed her full supply of gas with the contents of the three gas cans just to make it to Mesquite or wherever she fills up.

I'm thinking she's an interstate kind of a gal, so she went interstate as much as possible. In my imagination, she took comfort from having all those truckers around.

All she needs is a campground with a latrine to get rid of the stuff.... She may have known about a place from the time they went on that trip to Havasupai.

Now that I think of it, the fact that the foursome went to Havasupai might have given her the idea about how to make the trip north, familiarity and all. She had been to LV before, IIRC, but she had flown back to Mesa? If she drove back to Mesa from that former LV trip, I'll bet she used the same route after the murder. The prior trips would have helped her in the planning. Very important info. She knew what was out there, traffic, desert, etc. This was a very planned out trip. In general, I don't think JA is at all a one to do anything original.(That's an understatement.) Trekking across the desert if she'd never done it before, ummmmm, NO.

I can't believe I'm following all this on a map. Sucker. LOL.

She drove back from visiting Gus in Las Vegas in February of 2008. She also knew the 17 to Flagstaff route, from their trip to the Grand Canyon, at least.

 

[Hope4More]

Here's the map with the 17 to 40 route in red (ignore the blue, that's 93 that google wouldn't let me change), I drew down to Lake Havasu City just cuz it looked like a place she might go if they'd been there before and she was familiar with the area.

View attachment 98708

It's about an hour and a few just from here to Havasu, right? She had to have been driving the absolute maximum she could get away with, for most if not all the way, and have been lucky about traffic.

 

[RickshawFan]

Forest Service campgrounds just south and west of Flagstaff. Let's see if I can pull this off:







Credit: This is a screenshot from a software I own called Ultimate Public Campground Project. It is part of the Road Trip Planner.

If I'm breaking a WS rule, apologies.

 

[geevee]

It's about an hour and a few just from here to Havasu, right? She had to have been driving the absolute maximum she could get away with, for most if not all the way, and have been lucky about traffic.

Yes, according to google it's 60 miles from Kingman down 95. (ETA: Follow 40 and then to 95)

 

[Hope4More]

I was so hoping we (or well, you, since you're doing all the hard legwork lol) could at least resolve the mystery of where she parked that morning, I agree, walking that far to a car looking as disheveled as she must have afterwards was unlikely - do you think it's possible at all that she parked in the garage? Isn't his bedroom over the garage and probably would have heard the door going up and down? The window on the upper right side of the house in your pic - is that the window that's in his bedroom by the treadmill?

Im pretty sure that's the window in the pic of her dragging TA, so at the end of the hall & bathroom.

About parking in the garage. She couldn't have before both roommates left. She could have moved her car after they left, but then wouldn't it have been seen by (was it Zack?) when he returned at 3. The front door was locked, iirc, so roomies had to go through garage?

 

[RickshawFan]

You also have Bullhead City, thru Golden Valley to Kingman. Plenty of deserted roads there, i've driven that road and not seen anyone for 45 minutes easy and in Golden Valley, between Bullhead and Golden Valley there is a very desolate area of desert, plus you have the colorado river in Bullhead. I've driven from Phoenix to Golden Valley multiple times and it was scary how i'd pass NO ONE for lengths of time.

That was a route I proposed once on the grounds that it would put her in CA as soon as possible, which would support the argument she didn't go to Mesa but was lost for a while. But there was a glitch to that route that was brought up. She pinged southeast of Kingman may be?

I actually had her going up 95.

 

[geevee]

Im pretty sure that's the window in the pic of her dragging TA, so at the end of the hall & bathroom.

I thought the bathroom had two windows? Val is probably the one to ask, think she figured out which window went where when we were going through the time and window shadows conundrum.

 

[RickshawFan]

It's about an hour and a few just from here to Havasu, right? She had to have been driving the absolute maximum she could get away with, for most if not all the way, and have been lucky about traffic.

I was thinking she came UP to Havasu from Quartzsite. You're suggesting DOWN and then back?

 

[Hope4More]

IIRC, the timeline was extremely tight up to the time she made her calls, but then it took her a very long time to reach SLC. I think she disposed of stuff after the phone calls, and it wasn't a quick disposal.

 

[geevee]

As an aside, what do you think of Kingman, Hope? My brother who lives in a northerly state wants to move to the southwest and picked Kingman (of all places), knows not a soul there but thought it might be an okay place for retirement - does it look like a livable kind of place?

 

[Hope4More]

I was thinking she came UP to Havasu from Quartzsite. You're suggesting DOWN and then back?

I hadn't thought she went to Havasu at all, though I suppose it's possible. IMO she took 60 to 17 to 40 to Kingman. What would have been the advantage of reaching NV via Havasu instead of going north to Hoover Dam?

 

[geevee]

IIRC, the timeline was extremely tight up to the time she made her calls, but then it took her a very long time to reach SLC. I think she disposed of stuff after the phone calls, and it wasn't a quick disposal.

I think so too. We know she was in Mesquite (around 4:00 a.m., if memory serves) for gas but she still had scads of time to get to SLC, only 4 1/2 hours from mesquite to there and she didn't arrive at Ryan's until 11:30 or so.

 

[Hope4More]

As an aside, what do you think of Kingman, Hope? My brother who lives in a northerly state wants to move to the southwest and picked Kingman (of all places), knows not a soul there but thought it might be an okay place for retirement - does it look like a livable kind of place?

It was 109 when I arrived, and the hotel clerk says that's typical. For me that's an EEK, but y'all southerners might be more accustomed to living in a blast furnace?

The surrounding area is gorgeous, in a desert and mountains kind of way, complete with saguaro cacti.....

 

[Hope4More]

I think so too. We know she was in Mesquite (around 4:00 a.m., if memory serves) for gas but she still had scads of time to get to SLC, only 4 1/2 hours from mesquite to there and she didn't arrive at Ryan's until 11:30 or so.

4AM in Mesquite? Hmm. Gonna check maps and take a break. BBL.