Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[geevee]

How do you account for the time- stamped shower photos indicating a later timeline?

And..where could Napoleon have been between 3-4, and have been quiet enough to have gone unnoticed by Zach, if Travis was already dead?

I think the camera's time was never set when Travis bought it, who knows what time it was set for, unless he'd activated the setting for time stamps to show on pics he took he wouldn't have even noticed a date or time, so I think the time stamps we see are unreliable.

Zach wouldn't think twice about seeing Naps downstairs, or she may have put him in the office with the door closed when she went up to Travis' room as he slept.

 

[RickshawFan]

JM wasn't the slightest bit confused. He also wasn't necessarily after the same answers we're looking for.

He seemed to go relentlessly after some of her lies about that day, to simply raise doubt about others, and to let others go entirely unremarked upon (including how TA could have replied to Chris at 12:10 if he didn't wake up til 1m).

He knew, IMO, she switched the shaving photos story midstream when being interrogated by Flores. SHE mentioned shaving photos, Flores didn't, when he brought up the shower photos.

IMO she clearly was talking about June 4th first when she said Travis didn't want her to take them (in essence), but then in her way brought up an earlier time to muddle what she had inadvertently revealed about TA's refusal on the 4th.

She mutters something just following trying to make the story about earlier, btw. I've listened to it many times, and it sounds like:. (..?), then, " we'll do it later."

The most obvious inconsistency/lie JM is trying to catch her in is whether or not TA gave her permission and was receptive to the idea, or whether or not she had to convince him. The latter would make it more obvious she premeditated killing him in the shower.

But what he also mined out of forcing her to choose a shaving story is her admission that TA had shaved that day, sometime before his shower, and in leading her down that path he forced her to admit (he didn't dwell on it) that her tied to the bed story was at least partially a lie.

---
About cleaning and the sofa. During interrogation, she seemed to be saying Travis spent some time in the afternoon cleaning. I've forgotten - did she repeat that at trial?

What's interesting is what it reveals if she WAS there at this point. Travis is not only cleaning, but he's piled up the dining room chairs on the sofa where she usually chills out.

Then where is she? Standing up in the living room while he cleans, (and cleans and cleans? ) There isn't anywhere else to sit in that space. What does that say about whether she was welcome there, and what could she possibly have said to TA that would make sense of her standing there as he cleaned, rather than racing out of the house to hook up with Ryan?

She wasn't in the living room when he was cleaning. She saw the chairs later?

There's something weird about the phrase, "the couch where I used to chill out when nobody was home." I haven't quite put my finger on it. But it jumped out at me. It does't make sense to say "when nobody was home". She did reveal that she was sneaking in there in his absence, though.

 

[Hope4More]

I think the camera's time was never set when Travis bought it, who knows what time it was set for, unless he'd activated the setting for time stamps to show on pics he took he wouldn't have even noticed a date or time, so I think the time stamps we see are unreliable.

Zach wouldn't think twice about seeing Naps downstairs, or she may have put him in the office with the door closed when she went up to Travis' room as he slept.

I think the would have had to drugged Napoleon senseless, gagged him, and stuck him in a back closet to have prevented him from scratching and barking at his beloved master's bedroom door, if Travis had been killed before Zach returned. Jmo.

As for the camera. I would be amazed if Flores and JM didn't try to verify the accuracy of the shower photo time stamps. All they had to do is to look through the other 90 photos on the same card, and to peg the accuracy of the time on a single photo. I think that was done with Taylor, iirc, as we know he's said that he took one of the photos, of TA on his bike on May 26.

 

[TexMex]

I think the would have had to drugged Napoleon senseless, gagged him, and stuck him in a back closet to have prevented him from scratching and barking at his beloved master's bedroom door, if Travis had been killed before Zach returned. Jmo.

As for the camera. I would be amazed if Flores and JM didn't try to verify the accuracy of the shower photo time stamps. All they had to do is to look through the other 90 photos on the same card, and to peg the accuracy of the time on a single photo. I think that was done with Taylor, iirc, as he identified one of the photos as taken by him of TA on his bike on May 26.

Well said Hope.
The shower time stamps also match up with her quick and futile clean up efforts and her making a beeline for her meet up with Ryan Burns, her turning her phone back on, gas purchase etc.

 

[TexMex]

In theory, yes. However, she would have to have had a laptop, cables to connect from her phone/camera to that laptop after getting a cable (USB, connector of some sort) to connect his phone/camera to the laptop, and software on the laptop to do so. Too complicated for her and too time consuming and expensive. Each camera has a different software to download pics to a computer, I have Cybershot which is the Sony software. IMO the pics were taken that day.

Travis simply took her offerings for that fateful day. She showed up and he wasn't going to turn her away. Although he had diminished his contact with her in the weeks prior, I don't think he held grudges toward her, especially if she turned up for an afternoon delight. It was a hook up, these days it happens all the time (in 2008 too).

Maybe Travis told her Zach would be home around 3 thus she could not murder him then. I can't see her leaving and coming back. I think she was there just hanging out until the coast was clear.

Agree!

How's my friend Shane feeling?

 

[geevee]

I think the would have had to drugged Napoleon senseless, gagged him, and stuck him in a back closet to have prevented him from scratching and barking at his beloved master's bedroom door, if Travis had been killed before Zach returned. Jmo.

As for the camera. I would be amazed if Flores and JM didn't try to verify the accuracy of the shower photo time stamps. All they had to do is to look through the other 90 photos on the same card, and to peg the accuracy of the time on a single photo. I think that was done with Taylor, iirc, as we know he's said that he took one of the photos, of TA on his bike on May 26.

The amount of light coming in Travis' bathroom windows at that time of day doesn't make much sense either, my sweet friend. Nor does a man who was utterly through with the lying wench yet drop his drawers the moment she walks through the door (or sneaks up on him while sleeping). Without Melendez' report, we don't know what he did with the camera and memory stick, unfortunately.

If Naps was shut in the office or downstairs bathroom he likely wouldn't have heard anything happening upstairs. All the days Travis was in his shower and the roommates going about their business, no one noticed Naps acting unusually, scratching at T's door, whining, nothing of note, apparently.

 

[Val1]

How do you account for the time- stamped shower photos indicating a later timeline?

And..where could Napoleon have been between 3-4, and have been quiet enough to have gone unnoticed by Zach, if Travis was already dead?

Alright, I admit this daylight savings thing in AZ in 2008 has me somewhat confused, even though I used to live in a mountain zone, but can someone please explain what this means, or could mean, in relation to the day TA was murdered?(see below links) I recall JM using DST to confuse the time issue a few times and he did confuse me.... so the shower times I would have to accept as possible, even though the way the light was shining through the blinds in that one accidental pic does raise questions with me.

I would also like to get opinions on the difference in wall colour in TA's bedroom in the sex pics, in one they look much darker(almost red or perhaps the same brown as the walls in the ensuite) and in the other they look pretty much the same colour as in the crime scene pics of the bedroom. TA and the bedding as well as the alleged blue bottle of KY don't appear any different in colour, just the walls.

https://weatherspark.com/history/31259/2008/Phoenix-Arizona-United-States

"Daylight saving time (DST) was not observed at Phoenix, Arizona during 2008."

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20080604T2230&p1=220&p2=197

"Salt Lake City (USA - Utah) Wednesday, June 4, 2008 at 10:30:00 PM MDT UTC-6 hours
Phoenix (USA - Arizona) Wednesday, June 4, 2008 at 9:30:00 PM MST UTC-7 hours
Corresponding UTC (GMT) Thursday, June 5, 2008 at 04:30:00"

http://www.timeanddate.com/time/us/arizona-no-dst.html

"Most parts of the state of Arizona, except the Navajo Nation community, observe Mountain Standard Time (MST) all year long. MST is also known as the Mountain Time Zone and is seven hours behind (UTC-7)"

 

[Val1]

Well said Hope.
The shower time stamps also match up with her quick and futile clean up efforts and her making a beeline for her meet up with Ryan Burns, her turning her phone back on, gas purchase etc.

That's why I asked about the whole DST thing, if the tower north of Kingman that she pinged off was on Navajo land, would that have shown on the cell phone records as 10:30pm or 11:30pm(times used for an example)? Considering how late she was getting to SLC, an hour there wouldn't have made a difference but her possibly having an extra hour to get to Kingman than we've been thinking surely would.

http://www.timeanddate.com/time/us/arizona-no-dst.html
"Navajo Nation uses DST

The Navajo Nation lands, which extend to the states of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah, observe daylight saving time from April to October. It observes the daylight saving schedule because of its large size – it spans across three states.

During the daylight saving schedule, the Navajo Nation community moves the clock forward to six hours behind UTC, making it an hour ahead of the rest of Arizona. When it does not observe daylight saving time, it moves to clock backward to seven hours behind UTC, being in sync with the rest of Arizona, which observes MST. However, the Hopi Nation within the Navajo reservation follows the rest of the state by not observing daylight saving time."

 

[salberg7]

Agree!

How's my friend Shane feeling?

Hi TexMex! We took Shane to a canine orthopedic specialist for evaluation. He did a joint aspiration to check for Lymes, RA, and other infection/inflammation which were all negative. Final diagnosis severe arthritis. Whereas a healthy dog walks on his tippy toes Shane's "fingers" are contracted and he walks with his right paw at a 30 degree angle. There is nothing else we can do, although I was told recently about Adequan and need to research this. It is heartbreaking to watch him limp. I take him out 3x day to do his business and even then it's difficult. Hard to tell if he is in pain. We give him Vetprofen and Tramadol BID, Dasuquin daily. Everything else is fine-appetite, voiding, etc and he is even playful with his favorite toys.
Prognosis is poor for him. I don't know what the end game is but will take it day by day and let his quality of life and the Good Lord guide us. He doesn't seem unhappy yet or in great pain. I try to look at him like a person with arthritis in that people live with arthritis every day and humans too have joint pain but don't end their life b/o it. The hubby and I just cater to his every need and hope for the best.
Thank you for asking and sorry everyone for the off topic post.

 

[salberg7]

I am on vacation this week (a "stay-cation" as we cancelled our beach week b/o our doggie) and watched Day 22 & 23 of JM's cross of the killer yesterday. JM was admirably quick thinking on his feet and I wonder if any other prosecutor would have been able to counter the killer's responses as well as he did because she was actually quite snide and had an answer for everything. Of note is how she interjected so many unsolicited statements meant to shape Travis as an abuser and pedophile. There were times during that cross where she almost got the best of him, especially on Day 23 when she said he "scrambled her brain", but luckily he was able to overcome that and get back on track quickly to continue his cross. Juan knew the details of the case so well that she could not trip him up, and she definitely tried her best to do so. It was interesting to watch him get the details he needed for the jury to note the inconsistencies in her testi-phony and expose her for the liar she is. She thinks she is the brightest bulb in the lot. Truly delusional. And I truly think she was totally surprised when she was convicted because she thought she was successful in convincing the jury it was self defense.
She is where she belongs as she is a dangerous individual. Overkill. Capable of doing it again as well.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think the would have had to drugged Napoleon senseless, gagged him, and stuck him in a back closet to have prevented him from scratching and barking at his beloved master's bedroom door, if Travis had been killed before Zach returned. Jmo.

As for the camera. I would be amazed if Flores and JM didn't try to verify the accuracy of the shower photo time stamps. All they had to do is to look through the other 90 photos on the same card, and to peg the accuracy of the time on a single photo. I think that was done with Taylor, iirc, as we know he's said that he took one of the photos, of TA on his bike on May 26.

To my mind, the shower photos fit tidily with ' ping north of Kingman. I suppose it could be off by an hour, but I don't see a whole lot of advantage in arguing for that.

I am also unclear how much of the light in the cleaned up photo is a result of the cleaning up process. In general, TA's house strikes me as gloomy inside. I suppose that could reflect the time of day when LE photos were taken, but it's a bit of a surprise to me that any room in the house is as bright as the dragging one.

 

[RickshawFan]

That's why I asked about the whole DST thing, if the tower north of Kingman that she pinged off was on Navajo land, would that have shown on the cell phone records as 10:30pm or 11:30pm(times used for an example)? Considering how late she was getting to SLC, an hour there wouldn't have made a difference but her possibly having an extra hour to get to Kingman than we've been thinking surely would.

http://www.timeanddate.com/time/us/arizona-no-dst.html
"Navajo Nation uses DST

The Navajo Nation lands, which extend to the states of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah, observe daylight saving time from April to October. It observes the daylight saving schedule because of its large size – it spans across three states.

During the daylight saving schedule, the Navajo Nation community moves the clock forward to six hours behind UTC, making it an hour ahead of the rest of Arizona. When it does not observe daylight saving time, it moves to clock backward to seven hours behind UTC, being in sync with the rest of Arizona, which observes MST. However, the Hopi Nation within the Navajo reservation follows the rest of the state by not observing daylight saving time."

Interesting idea. I settled on AZ Last Stop as the place pinged. There are very few towers in that area, as the road borders Lake Mead NRA, and there are miles of empty desert, so surely must have pinged somewhere where there is at least something. There's no reservation marked on my map, but I don't believe Google is especially generous with mapping info on Native American lands.

 

[geevee]

That's why I asked about the whole DST thing, if the tower north of Kingman that she pinged off was on Navajo land, would that have shown on the cell phone records as 10:30pm or 11:30pm(times used for an example)? Considering how late she was getting to SLC, an hour there wouldn't have made a difference but her possibly having an extra hour to get to Kingman than we've been thinking surely would.

http://www.timeanddate.com/time/us/arizona-no-dst.html
"Navajo Nation uses DST

The Navajo Nation lands, which extend to the states of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah, observe daylight saving time from April to October. It observes the daylight saving schedule because of its large size – it spans across three states.

During the daylight saving schedule, the Navajo Nation community moves the clock forward to six hours behind UTC, making it an hour ahead of the rest of Arizona. When it does not observe daylight saving time, it moves to clock backward to seven hours behind UTC, being in sync with the rest of Arizona, which observes MST. However, the Hopi Nation within the Navajo reservation follows the rest of the state by not observing daylight saving time."

From the maps I see on Google, the Kingman area (and west towards NV and north towards UT) isn't in a Navajo Nation boundary so I think the time would be MST (same as CA/Pacific time during daylight saving time). Good thought though.

 

[TexMex]

Hi TexMex! We took Shane to a canine orthopedic specialist for evaluation. He did a joint aspiration to check for Lymes, RA, and other infection/inflammation which were all negative. Final diagnosis severe arthritis. Whereas a healthy dog walks on his tippy toes Shane's "fingers" are contracted and he walks with his right paw at a 30 degree angle. There is nothing else we can do, although I was told recently about Adequan and need to research this. It is heartbreaking to watch him limp. I take him out 3x day to do his business and even then it's difficult. Hard to tell if he is in pain. We give him Vetprofen and Tramadol BID, Dasuquin daily. Everything else is fine-appetite, voiding, etc and he is even playful with his favorite toys.
Prognosis is poor for him. I don't know what the end game is but will take it day by day and let his quality of life and the Good Lord guide us. He doesn't seem unhappy yet or in great pain. I try to look at him like a person with arthritis in that people live with arthritis every day and humans too have joint pain but don't end their life b/o it. The hubby and I just cater to his every need and hope for the best.
Thank you for asking and sorry everyone for the off topic post.

The treatment you describe is exactly what I would prescribe.

I'm sure you have been told, but just in case:

Keep his weight down..low cal. High quality Senior dog food
Lots of padded bedding
Heating pad (not on high) to help with circulation
Rugs available for traction to ease his getting up to stand
Hydrotherapy as in hot tub/whirlpool
Massage

Adequan? I've had it be marginally helpful, nothing miraculous.

The best thing for Shane is he's getting plenty of love. As for the end game, I hope it's another few years down the road. I always advise it's about the dogs dignity and quality of life---not when we as their caretakers are "ready" or "prepared", so your approach seems perfect to me. Let him be the guide. He's a lucky guy to have such a caring family.

At the end of the day I'm always humbled when it comes the time for euthanasia. To be honored to hear the last kind words a faithful dog gets to hear is very moving. A stroke on the head and a good dog, good boy means everything to a family pet.


"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
- Unknown

Ok...back on topic now

 

[salberg7]

Thank you TexMex, I needed that. I will follow your directives! Thanks for the validation of his treatment!
In the meantime, today, he was acting like a puppy again. Nipping my ankles before I went out to do an errand-less I forget to give him his goodbye treat...
Got him an orthopedic bed when this all started. It's like a Temperpedic (sp?) mattress, the little stinker. Have done everything except heating pad and hydrotherapy.

Sorry all, carry on!

I'm going to listen to more trial testimony.

 

[Wing Ding]

After reading several posts on the last few pages here about JA's activities throughout the day at TA's house on June 4th... could it be that she went through TA's email and phone activity at some point in the afternoon before she killed him to ensure TA hadn't mentioned to anyone that she had shown up at his house? Because why kill him if he had, and why take a chance if you're not sure if he had? If she hadn't, I can see why keeping an eye on him that day was muy important.

 

[Hope4More]

From the maps I see on Google, the Kingman area (and west towards NV and north towards UT) isn't in a Navajo Nation boundary so I think the time would be MST (same as CA/Pacific time during daylight saving time). Good thought though.

The Kingman area is definitely not Navajo. Navajo Nation boundaries are just east of the Grand Canyon on over east into NM, up north to the Utah border, with a jaggety southern border of Route 40 (some places a little to the north of 40, others a bit to the south.

Kingman is hundreds of miles to the west of any bit of Navajo land.

 

[Hope4More]

While I had the map out...

For the Google online map challenged (I'm that), here's Mesa and possible exit routes (circled).

 

[Hope4More]

After reading several posts on the last few pages here about JA's activities throughout the day at TA's house on June 4th... could it be that she went through TA's email and phone activity at some point in the afternoon before she killed him to ensure TA hadn't mentioned to anyone that she had shown up at his house? Because why kill him if he had, and why take a chance if you're not sure if he had? If she hadn't, I can see why keeping an eye on him that day was muy important.

. That might well explain the last computer activity, which involved TA's email account. Makes total sense that she'd check, last thing, just for that reason, after TA had already gone upstairs to take a shower.

Which means, if accurate, that the first photo of him in the shower was taken over 30 minutes later. Maybe time enough for him to relax, thinking she's finally left, and to have shaved, and to have been mostly finished in the shower before she ambushed him there with his own camera, coaxing him to allow her to take photos.

 

[Wing Ding]

. That might well explain the last computer activity, which involved TA's email activity. Makes total sense that she'd check, last thing, just for that reason, after TA had already gone upstairs to take a shower.

Which means, if accurate, that the first photo of him in the shower was taken over 30 minutes later. Maybe time enough for him to relax, thinking she's finally left, and to have shaved, and to have been mostly finished in the shower before she ambushed him there with his own camera, coaxing him to allow her to take photos.

That makes sense, too. If TA had already showered and shaved while she was downstairs snooping for 30 minutes, she could have persuaded him to pose for some glamor shots in the shower (without a bar of soap or a bottle of shampoo and with the shower door open) before she (finally!) left for Utah.

I always assumed the computer activity on TA's laptop in his office at 4 pm was Travis, but it very could well have been #SheDevil making sure the coast was clear.

I like this think tank!