Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #2

[krkrjx]

The shower pics were found where? Weren't they all date and time stamped? Travis allowed her to take the pics of him naked in the shower and the picture taking went on for more than several minutes. I doubt he asked her to take them, and she might have even surprised him in the shower after he thought she had left. But he let her take the pics.

(Up to the ones where he's sitting down, because I'm convinced she had pulled out the gun to make him do so).

IMO there is no way he would have done so if they hadn't been "intimate" earlier. It would have creeped him out or even flat out scared him otherwise, and he would at least have turned off the shower and made himself less vulnerable.

I think TA may have allowed the shower photo session in the manner you describe: That she left (or he thought she had) and came back and started snapping pics. However, even if he did allow it to continue once it started, for me that does not mean they were intimate earlier.

In a normal relationship that might be the case, but this thing between the two of them was anything but normal. And look how often Travis did or did not say or do something that he should or should not have under the circumstances. IOW, he basically kicked her to the curb many times and wanted her to leave him alone but then allowed her to contact him and weasel her way back in.

I always felt Travis was not harsher with her because it was just not in his nature to be harsh toward others. The few times he went off on her verbally or via texts/emails were times that she had pushed him so far beyond his limit that he could not stop himself, but it was temporary and he actually felt bad about it after things cooled off some. And then there she was, right back where he didn't want her to be.

I do not believe TA knew JA was coming to Mesa that night but when she showed up he let her in. Or, she snuck in and when he found her there he let her stay. I also think he thought she was on her way home (or wherever she told him she was headed) by the time he got in the shower that fateful day and she snuck back in the house and again he let her stay. He was probably annoyed at that as well as her snapping pics but not pushed to his limit so didn't try to stop her.

Intimacy during that visit may or may not have happened. I believe it could have just because of his inability to say no to JA all the times when he should have, but I also never felt that any intimacy that did occur went the way she described. I think he may have done some things to "humor" her but I do not believe he was intimate with her. I think she did some things that he didn't put a stop to and that any participation on his part was minimal at best--just going through the motions to appease, not real "intimacy" at all.

ETA: Another example of TA going through the motions to appease is, IMO, on the sex tape. On that tape in the beginning he sounded unsuspecting, perhaps even half asleep. IOW, that particular call was not pre-planned between them, it was all Jodi.

The appeasing is not really a bad thing in this circumstance because that's what phone sex usually is: going through the motions for the benefit of your partner. But, so much ado has happened over his 12-year-old girl comment that I feel the need to say how that appeared to me, and that is that Travis was not at that time and never at any time fantasizing about 12-year-old girls. To my ears, his comment showed annoyance over her using a childish voice. He asked, What's with your voice? You sound like a 12-year-old girl? Arias then asks if he likes that in a voice that suggests that she likes doing it and instead of him saying no he doesn't like it, he goes along with her little fantasy. It was her fantasy as well as her way to get him to say something she could use against him, which she certainly did.

OK, maybe I am hearing annoyance in his voice that wasn't there but each time I listen to that I hear it. To me it comes off as him not caring for what is occurring but going along just to appease. Travis said and did things to appease more times than anyone can count in his dealings with the psychopath and IMO it seems reasonable to assume he did it in the sex tape more than once.

JMO.

 

[Val1]

The shower pics were found where? Weren't they all date and time stamped? Travis allowed her to take the pics of him naked in the shower and the picture taking went on for more than several minutes. I doubt he asked her to take them, and she might have even surprised him in the shower after he thought she had left. But he let her take the pics.

(Up to the ones where he's sitting down, because I'm convinced she had pulled out the gun to make him do so).

IMO there is no way he would have done so if they hadn't been "intimate" earlier. It would have creeped him out or even flat out scared him otherwise, and he would at least have turned off the shower and made himself less vulnerable.

The shower pics were found on the memory stick and had been deleted, as opposed to unallocated iirc. As for him letting her take the shower pics, I see no evidence that he even knew she was there for the first five minutes of his shower, not until the surprised look on his face at 5:27:18, at which point it looks like he turned to protect his privacy and then we see him sitting so who knows why or how that happened. I do know that when I'm in the shower, especially while wetting/washing/conditioning my hair/body I certainly wouldn't be able to see let alone be inclined to watch for someone outside the shower taking pics. Now I'm wondering if anyone ever has and I just never caught them... :thinking:

Re the intimacy thing, from everything I've seen, heard or read about this case, intimacy seemed in short demand between them. Secrecy yes, heavy petting/teasing yes, sex once or twice yes, but nothing that leads me to believe that, at least for TA, after they "broke up" meant anything more to him than trying to placate her demands without causing waves and trying to stay friends other than perhaps the one time where he wanted to make it "special" with the tub/candles/etc.

He certainly didn't know how to deal with someone like JA who still to this day seems to feel entitlement/ownership over her past relationships(ie. DB, MM and yes TA). Re the come hither/go away game they both seemed to play, it seems to me that for JA it was a game she meant to win "big" at, but for TA it was just a game that started to get so old he just wanted it to stop.

 

[samspace070]

I think TA may have allowed the shower photo session in the manner you describe: That she left (or he thought she had) and came back and started snapping pics. However, even if he did allow it to continue once it started, for me that does not mean they were intimate earlier.

In a normal relationship that might be the case, but this thing between the two of them was anything but normal. And look how often Travis did or did not say or do something that he should or should not have under the circumstances. IOW, he basically kicked her to the curb many times and wanted her to leave him alone but then allowed her to contact him and weasel her way back in.

I always felt Travis was not harsher with her because it was just not in his nature to be harsh toward others. The few times he went off on her verbally or via texts/emails were times that she had pushed him so far beyond his limit that he could not stop himself, but it was temporary and he actually felt bad about it after things cooled off some. And then there she was, right back where he didn't want her to be.

I do not believe TA knew JA was coming to Mesa that night but when she showed up he let her in. Or, she snuck in and when he found her there he let her stay. I also think he thought she was on her way home (or wherever she told him she was headed) by the time he got in the shower that fateful day and she snuck back in the house and again he let her stay. He was probably annoyed at that as well as her snapping pics but not pushed to his limit so didn't try to stop her.

Intimacy during that visit may or may not have happened. I believe it could have just because of his inability to say no to JA all the times when he should have, but I also never felt that any intimacy that did occur went the way she described. I think he may have done some things to "humor" her but I do not believe he was intimate with her. I think she did some things that he didn't put a stop to and that any participation on his part was minimal at best--just going through the motions to appease, not real "intimacy" at all.

ETA: Another example of TA going through the motions to appease is, IMO, on the sex tape. On that tape in the beginning he sounded unsuspecting, perhaps even half asleep. IOW, that particular call was not pre-planned between them, it was all Jodi.

The appeasing is not really a bad thing in this circumstance because that's what phone sex usually is: going through the motions for the benefit of your partner. But, so much ado has happened over his 12-year-old girl comment that I feel the need to say how that appeared to me, and that is that Travis was not at that time and never at any time fantasizing about 12-year-old girls. To my ears, his comment showed annoyance over her using a childish voice. He asked, What's with your voice? You sound like a 12-year-old girl? Arias then asks if he likes that in a voice that suggests that she likes doing it and instead of him saying no he doesn't like it, he goes along with her little fantasy. It was her fantasy as well as her way to get him to say something she could use against him, which she certainly did.

OK, maybe I am hearing annoyance in his voice that wasn't there but each time I listen to that I hear it. To me it comes off as him not caring for what is occurring but going along just to appease. Travis said and did things to appease more times than anyone can count in his dealings with the psychopath and IMO it seems reasonable to assume he did it in the sex tape more than once.

JMO.

Thank you krkrjk, I agree with most everything you said. I think if anyone looks at his picture laying down on the bed, would have to see he appears to be asleep. And the person taking the picture is behind him. This is not a full frontal shot like the photos of herself, so I do not believe he knew she was there. I remember in her 48 hour interview she tell the journalist she is more comfortable behind the camera, implying she is camera shy. This was beyond ridiculous considering all the photos she had of herself. Most of which were self taken by her. She is very familiar with how to remotely take photos. The shower pics I m not sure about how that went down other than her pulling the gun on him, but with the door open water would have got on the floor. They may have used a towel to put on the floor so the water that splashed out wouldn't accumulate on the floor. I use a terrycloth bath mat to step out on, maybe Travis used a towel.
I don't think we will ever know exactly how everything went down because the psycho will never tell the truth. If we could see all the sealed information that the defense doesn't want us to see, I think we would have a clearer idea of what happened. We know the sealed info hurts her or she wouldn't want to keep it sealed. If she told anyone about this crime it would be MM for sure but I think she would even lie to him.
.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Hope4More,

Here is a small amount of info about PPL. I will dig into it later, but for now I am off to BW3's for the game. GO BUCKEYES!!!!!



http://www.bethebossnetwork.com/wor...ight-work-at-home-careers-with-pre-paid-legal

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I have no idea, this woman was nuts and did stupid things and clever things, maybe there is a reason we can't conceive from a psycho like her, but you have a valid point, "why would she put fake photos on his camera. But the pic of him lying on the bed appearing to be asleep after 50 seconds of her rear photo doesn't make sense. This is a real puzzle for someone to figure out.

Shock value when he was in Cancun if he didn't let her go? Him and Mimi going through pictures of the trip and bam there is Jodi. That would ruin his trip (another thing she'd ruin as Travis said) and Mimi would shut him down right then and there. But if she convinced him to take her, no big deal in handing his camera and deleting things.

It's amazing in how many times Jodi instigates and out right proposition him with vivid details of what she wants done, and to do to Travis. She starts to call him terms of endearment of sweetie, sweetheart, hon, around February and it increases as April draws near. He also had two other journals taken, and he begs her and offers what money he has, but to please give them back to him. He said it was the two that dealt with him meeting Jodi and their relationship.

 

[RickshawFan]

Does anyone know how PPL accounting worked? Came across a curious exchange and wonder if she was scamming him, but don't enough about the process to know if it was possible/how it would have worked.

An associate asked Travis if he'd sent the check yet. Travis said no, because he had seen that his account had already been charged and assumed the payment had been made.

?????

I'm guessing JA helped herself to the money and made it look like it was a check to PPL? She could have just found his checkbook and written herself a check? Made out to her PPL account? He might not have thought to look at his account online to see an image of the check.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Thank you krkrjk, I agree with most everything you said. I think if anyone looks at his picture laying down on the bed, would have to see he appears to be asleep. And the person taking the picture is behind him. This is not a full frontal shot like the photos of herself, so I do not believe he knew she was there. I remember in her 48 hour interview she tell the journalist she is more comfortable behind the camera, implying she is camera shy. This was beyond ridiculous considering all the photos she had of herself. Most of which were self taken by her. She is very familiar with how to remotely take photos. The shower pics I m not sure about how that went down other than her pulling the gun on him, but with the door open water would have got on the floor. They may have used a towel to put on the floor so the water that splashed out wouldn't accumulate on the floor. I use a terrycloth bath mat to step out on, maybe Travis used a towel.
I don't think we will ever know exactly how everything went down because the psycho will never tell the truth. If we could see all the sealed information that the defense doesn't want us to see, I think we would have a clearer idea of what happened. We know the sealed info hurts her or she wouldn't want to keep it sealed. If she told anyone about this crime it would be MM for sure but I think she would even lie to him.
.

There is a chair and ottoman next to the end table next to Travis's bed and that is where I think she shot it from. And he could of been asleep, woke up and that was the annoyance and moving the ky bottle when he saw the camera. Travis also had a wardrobe that held his tv on the right side of the bed that is in about the line of direction of Jodi laying on the bed. I've always thought she put it on a shelf with a timer and took them.


Jodi mentions a memory stick in a text about photos of a trip they took, and his remarks about how this was another thing she'd screwed up of his. She told him how the photo's could be transferred to a memory stick and she could mail it. But she was talking about a thumb drive wasn't she? And she played a game in her computer freezing up (she does things like that all the time just to mess with him or piss him off) and finanly after a while it works.


I think Jodi brought the memory stick with her, and that and the car payments got her in the door and he let her stay. The sex was a goodbye last time, I'm moving on and he believed her.

 

[ICit]

I somewhat recall JA telling Flores that the camera/memory could be manipulated to retrieve photos or something. What if she planned everything and she wanted to kill Travis a second time when the photos were found. In her wee little mind I can see her thinking that everyone of his snooty friends would see with their own eyes that SHE was the one to take his virginity and send him to hell.
I never believed that she had sex with him that day. After looking at everything I believe that he only had some kind of sex with her once about a year before his death. That is what caused him to loose his Temple Recommend.
She stole his journals because they would have exposed her story as one big product of a fruitful imagination.

 

[geevee]

Where JA's appeals are concerned, I have this funny feeling that in the post conviction relief hearing (which likely will include witnesses and maybe go on for days (like Bob Bashara's is currently) what's really going to be on trial will be the media and public.

There is no new evidence to bring to try to force a new trial or any such thing, but considering how much of a big deal Nurmi made throughout the retrial of her constitutional rights being trampled to the point of an unjust trial because of all of the media attention, I think we'll see another tent erected and the continuation of the Big Top circus, accusing the media and those of us who paid rapt attention of robbing her of the fair yet secret trial she is so deserving.

By the way, considering how JA began that secret testimony (a near-rereading of the letter she sent the Alexanders) I think except for the murder itself, we know how it would have proceeded (just by reading that diatribe), I suppose we'll all have to remain curious as to how she planned to replace its ninja story with the body slam/linebacker barrelling tale she told in Trial #1.

Did she plan to admit to remembering the knife going in his throat while he was still alive, or just another modified version of her original (lie #3) story? Tell a whole new story filling in the blanks from the now-cleared fog? I do wish, for that reason, her testimony could have continued, but in the end it doesn't matter, it wouldn't have approached the truth, and would have likely only been geared to hurt the Alexander family further.

 

[Wing Ding]

Originally Posted by samspace070
I have no idea, this woman was nuts and did stupid things and clever things, maybe there is a reason we can't conceive from a psycho like her, but you have a valid point, "why would she put fake photos on his camera. But the pic of him lying on the bed appearing to be asleep after 50 seconds of her rear photo doesn't make sense. This is a real puzzle for someone to figure out.

Shock value when he was in Cancun if he didn't let her go? Him and Mimi going through pictures of the trip and bam there is Jodi. That would ruin his trip (another thing she'd ruin as Travis said) and Mimi would shut him down right then and there. But if she convinced him to take her, no big deal in handing his camera and deleting things.

It's amazing in how many times Jodi instigates and out right proposition him with vivid details of what she wants done, and to do to Travis. She starts to call him terms of endearment of sweetie, sweetheart, hon, around February and it increases as April draws near. He also had two other journals taken, and he begs her and offers what money he has, but to please give them back to him. He said it was the two that dealt with him meeting Jodi and their relationship.

Whoa, I think I may have just had a "BAM" moment. The nudie pics have always seemed odd and out of place to me. Under lit, out of focus, etc.

Now... unlike several here at WS, I always believed they each posed for their nudies (as bad as they are), and were in fact taken the afternoon that She-Devil killed Travis.

But... if I put samspace and pages' posts together... I just had an epiphany.

Now first of all, I know all the photo images on digital camera are recorded and captured by the camera's memory card so a person can't simply download pics from their computer harddrive (or flash drive/memory stick/thumb drive device, etc) directly on to the camera's memory card to "fake" a picture being taken by the camera. BUT... it is ***entirely*** possible for a person to use a digital camera to take a picture of another picture! In so doing, that would explain how nekkid pictures previously taken of Jodi and Travis were found on his camera's memory card -- because Jodi used Travis' camera to take pictures of old pictures which she had printed out and brought with her. Right???

That would explain why the nudies look dark -- because when taking pictures of pictures, she would have only been able to use the natural light that was available to her in the room at the time and would not have used the camera's flash. Why? Because had she used the camera's flash, the pictures would have been "blown out" from the reflection of the flash itself. That sounds about right.

And Jodi taking pictures of pictures would also explain the poor focus of the nekkid picture images. Don't all digital cameras these days focus automatically by pressing the shutter button halfway? The blurry pics of Travis on his bed might still be blurry if the camera didn't focus correctly when she took the pic. But she could always take another picture of him after the focus was set correctly, right? BUT... if she's talking a picture of a picture of Travis, she has to get the camera lens zoomed in close enough to fill the LCD screen with the image she is about to take, and if you are too close to a subject with the wrong lens, the image will be fuzzy and appear out of focus. The only way to get the image back in focus is to get further away from the subject. And she couldn't do that and still fill the camera's LCD screen with the picture of Travis she was taking. That also sounds about right.

I also remember her saying to Det. Flores about the recovered nekkid images, "it sort of looks like me, but were they maybe taken on a different day"? That would make sense that the pics were indeed from an earlier encounter. Presumably the only thing she didn't think about was Travis' camera embedding a timestamp in the pics she took on July 4th. Whoopsies!

It's only three years too late for her trial, and thankfully she's now rotting in prison for the rest of her poor, pathetic, miserable life, but has anyone mentioned Jodi perhaps doing this (taking pictures of pictures) to get the nudies on Travis' camera. Considering that I am now starting to think they may not have had any sexual encounters that day, I can totally see her doing that. She's that cunning! (though still shortsighted re: the timestamp thing, lol)

Is my theory within the realm of possibilities, or too far out there? Would Jodi taking pictures of pictures also explain the timing and sequence of the nudies? Because it would certainly explain the poor lighting and focus. And it IS one way to get nekkid pics of them on his camera card for he and Mimi to unexpectedly see as they view their vacation pics of Cancun. And if that was her intention, she must not have thought about killing him till later on that afternoon. Otherwise, why even bother?

Sorry for the long post! lol

 

[RickshawFan]

Originally Posted by samspace070
I have no idea, this woman was nuts and did stupid things and clever things, maybe there is a reason we can't conceive from a psycho like her, but you have a valid point, "why would she put fake photos on his camera. But the pic of him lying on the bed appearing to be asleep after 50 seconds of her rear photo doesn't make sense. This is a real puzzle for someone to figure out.


Whoa, I think I may have just had a "BAM" moment. The nudie pics have always seemed odd and out of place to me. Under lit, out of focus, etc.

Now... unlike several here at WS, I always believed they each posed for their nudies (as bad as they are), and were in fact taken the afternoon that She-Devil killed Travis.

But... if I put samspace and pages' posts together... I just had an epiphany.

Now first of all, I know all the photo images on digital camera are recorded and captured by the camera's memory card so a person can't simply download pics from their computer harddrive (or flash drive/memory stick/thumb drive device, etc) directly on to the camera's memory card to "fake" a picture being taken by the camera. BUT... it is ***entirely*** possible for a person to use a digital camera to take a picture of another picture! In so doing, that would explain how nekkid pictures previously taken of Jodi and Travis were found on his camera's memory card -- because Jodi used Travis' camera to take pictures of old pictures which she had printed out and brought with her. Right???

That would explain why the nudies look dark -- because when taking pictures of pictures, she would have only been able to use the natural light that was available to her in the room at the time and would not have used the camera's flash. Why? Because had she used the camera's flash, the pictures would have been "blown out" from the reflection of the flash itself. That sounds about right.

And Jodi taking pictures of pictures would also explain the poor focus of the nekkid picture images. Don't all digital cameras these days focus automatically by pressing the shutter button halfway? The blurry pics of Travis on his bed might still be blurry if the camera didn't focus correctly when she took the pic. But she could always take another picture of him after the focus was set correctly, right? BUT... if she's talking a picture of a picture of Travis, she has to get the camera lens zoomed in close enough to fill the LCD screen with the image she is about to take, and if you are too close to a subject with the wrong lens, the image will be fuzzy and appear out of focus. The only way to get the image back in focus is to get further away from the subject. And she couldn't do that and still fill the camera's LCD screen with the picture of Travis she was taking. That also sounds about right.

I also remember her saying to Det. Flores about the recovered nekkid images, "it sort of looks like me, but were they maybe taken on a different day"? That would make sense that the pics were indeed from an earlier encounter. Presumably the only thing she didn't think about was Travis' camera embedding a timestamp in the pics she took on July 4th. Whoopsies!

It's only three years too late for her trial, but has anyone mentioned Jodi perhaps doing this (taking pictures of pictures) to get the nudies on Travis' camera. Considering that I am now starting to think they may not have had any sexual encounters that day, I can totally see her doing that. She's that cunning! (though still shortsighted re: the timestamp thing, lol)

Is my theory within the realm of possibilities, or too far out there? Would Jodi taking pictures of pictures also explain the timing and sequence of the nudies? And it IS one way to get nekkid pics of them on his camera card for he and Mimi to unexpectedly see as they view their vacation pics of Cancun. And if that was her intention, she must not have thought about killing him till later on that afternoon. Otherwise, why even bother?

Sorry for the long post! lol

This is a very interesting theory. It would explain how the photos were reasonable compositions in the sense that she was in the middle of the photos. I can't imagine being able to be that precise with those positions if you have to jump into them after depressing the camera button. That's not a lot of time! So, she had to have spent time rehearsing or marking the placement somehow. But if she took the photos off-site, she need only have used the photos that came out the best and she could have cropped them.

Apart from Jodi's over-emphasis on rear-end sex, if she was hoping Travis and Mimi would discover those nudies mixed in with their vacation photos, a moonshot is typically a big FU. Jodi's is more elaborate, grosser, and contrived (photoshopped for exaggerated cavities?), but so is everything she ever did.

She took the originals about the same time as the sex tape? So she was in braids mode? I wonder what else she did that night.

I thought she might have taken Travis' nude photos originally to frame him for the masturbation/pedophile episode she made up. And then she found a new use for them, juxtaposing them with her own nudies.

 

[MaLou]

No, not out there at all. I have always wondered the same thing (are they pictures of pictures?), but I still don't understand her motivation for doing so.

Originally Posted by samspace070
I have no idea, this woman was nuts and did stupid things and clever things, maybe there is a reason we can't conceive from a psycho like her, but you have a valid point, "why would she put fake photos on his camera. But the pic of him lying on the bed appearing to be asleep after 50 seconds of her rear photo doesn't make sense. This is a real puzzle for someone to figure out.


Whoa, I think I may have just had a "BAM" moment. The nudie pics have always seemed odd and out of place to me. Under lit, out of focus, etc.

Now... unlike several here at WS, I always believed they each posed for their nudies (as bad as they are), and were in fact taken the afternoon that She-Devil killed Travis.

But... if I put samspace and pages' posts together... I just had an epiphany.

Now first of all, I know all the photo images on digital camera are recorded and captured by the camera's memory card so a person can't simply download pics from their computer harddrive (or flash drive/memory stick/thumb drive device, etc) directly on to the camera's memory card to "fake" a picture being taken by the camera. BUT... it is ***entirely*** possible for a person to use a digital camera to take a picture of another picture! In so doing, that would explain how nekkid pictures previously taken of Jodi and Travis were found on his camera's memory card -- because Jodi used Travis' camera to take pictures of old pictures which she had printed out and brought with her. Right???

That would explain why the nudies look dark -- because when taking pictures of pictures, she would have only been able to use the natural light that was available to her in the room at the time and would not have used the camera's flash. Why? Because had she used the camera's flash, the pictures would have been "blown out" from the reflection of the flash itself. That sounds about right.

And Jodi taking pictures of pictures would also explain the poor focus of the nekkid picture images. Don't all digital cameras these days focus automatically by pressing the shutter button halfway? The blurry pics of Travis on his bed might still be blurry if the camera didn't focus correctly when she took the pic. But she could always take another picture of him after the focus was set correctly, right? BUT... if she's talking a picture of a picture of Travis, she has to get the camera lens zoomed in close enough to fill the LCD screen with the image she is about to take, and if you are too close to a subject with the wrong lens, the image will be fuzzy and appear out of focus. The only way to get the image back in focus is to get further away from the subject. And she couldn't do that and still fill the camera's LCD screen with the picture of Travis she was taking. That also sounds about right.

I also remember her saying to Det. Flores about the recovered nekkid images, "it sort of looks like me, but were they maybe taken on a different day"? That would make sense that the pics were indeed from an earlier encounter. Presumably the only thing she didn't think about was Travis' camera embedding a timestamp in the pics she took on July 4th. Whoopsies!

It's only three years too late for her trial, and thankfully she's now rotting in prison for the rest of her poor, pathetic, miserable life, but has anyone mentioned Jodi perhaps doing this (taking pictures of pictures) to get the nudies on Travis' camera. Considering that I am now starting to think they may not have had any sexual encounters that day, I can totally see her doing that. She's that cunning! (though still shortsighted re: the timestamp thing, lol)

Is my theory within the realm of possibilities, or too far out there? Would Jodi taking pictures of pictures also explain the timing and sequence of the nudies? Because it would certainly explain the poor lighting and focus. And it IS one way to get nekkid pics of them on his camera card for he and Mimi to unexpectedly see as they view their vacation pics of Cancun. And if that was her intention, she must not have thought about killing him till later on that afternoon. Otherwise, why even bother?

Sorry for the long post! lol

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

This is a very interesting theory. It would explain how the photos were reasonable compositions in the sense that she was in the middle of the photos. I can't imagine being able to be that precise with those positions if you have to jump into them after depressing the camera button. That's not a lot of time! So, she had to have spent time rehearsing or marking the placement somehow. But if she took the photos off-site, she need only have used the photos that came out the best and she could have cropped them.

Apart from Jodi's over-emphasis on rear-end sex, if she was hoping Travis and Mimi would discover those nudies mixed in with their vacation photos, a moonshot is typically a big FU. Jodi's is more elaborate, grosser, and contrived (photoshopped for exaggerated cavities?), but so is everything she ever did.

She took the originals about the same time as the sex tape? So she was in braids mode? I wonder what else she did that night.

I thought she might have taken Travis' nude photos originally to frame him for the masturbation/pedophile episode she made up. And then she found a new use for them, juxtaposing them with her own nudies.

They had to of been taken before she left Mesa. The first of April. She told Det. Flores that the last time they had sex was in his bed in April. The phone calls were May from Yreka. She goes on and on about braids in one texts. She is dressed up as a schoolgirl? and doesn't want to go in Walgreens so she goes to s CVC.

She also says "we are out of or don't have" like a couple and Travis tells her he has or doesn't have it.

And in the March trip it wasn't all Jodi and Travis. it was Travis ditching Jodi the whole trip, and shouldn't this of been the trip she met Ryan Burns at? and she wa a blonde.

I just realized that what ALV said was a three way for sex with Jodi and other women was a PPL three way call. Not sex business. Also I noticed in the mass text that are sent out none have Jodi included.

 

[Wing Ding]

No, not out there at all. I have always wondered the same thing (are they pictures of pictures?), but I still don't understand her motivation for doing so.

* Good question. Only her hairdresser knows for sure! [rimshot]

Ya know, after thinking about everything I wrote earlier (sorry once again for the long post), it really doesn't make sense that Jodi would have used Travis' camera to take pictures of naked pictures for Mimi to see, or to get revenge on him, or to somehow blackmail a dead ex-boyfriend. Why? Simply because all those pictures were deleted from the memory card anyway. She never expected them to be recovered, or intended for anyone to ever see them. If she had thought for one minute that leaving those naked pictures on the memory card would benefit her in any way after killing Travis, she would have left those image files on the card and left it on the bathroom floor along with the broken camera she "accidentally dropped". But she didn't do that because she never expected to get caught. But either way, maybe it didn't matter in the long run anyway, as she still tried to use the naked pics in her defense at trial and that didn't work out so well for her. Well, unless your name is ALV, that is, because Travis was the bad guy and just look what he did to her! Anyway... so much for my epiphany earlier! lol

No, the only thing that makes any real sense at all to me about the naked pics is that getting naked with him that afternoon (even if only to take naked pics of each other) may have been Jodi's way of putting Travis at ease around her and getting him to let his guard down so she could begin putting her plan to murder him into motion -- contingent, of course, on her going to Cancun or not.

I swear sometimes this case seems as convoluted as the JFK assassination/conspiracy. Thankfully, Jodi doesn't have a "grassy" knoll -- though her having a grassy knoll certainly would have made looking at "it" easier on the eyes.

Hmm... now I'm wondering if she hadn't deleted the naked pics off the memory card, would L.E. still have searched for (and ultimately recover) any deleted image files or would they have been satisfied with the few files that were left on the card and not looked for any deleted picture files?

 

[RickshawFan]

No, not out there at all. I have always wondered the same thing (are they pictures of pictures?), but I still don't understand her motivation for doing so.

Motivation:

a) She had those kinds of photos "on file" because she loved taking photos of herself. This is the photos for the sake of photos purpose, no ulterior motive.
b) To frame Travis.

 

[Hope4More]

Where JA's appeals are concerned, I have this funny feeling that in the post conviction relief hearing (which likely will include witnesses and maybe go on for days (like Bob Bashara's is currently) what's really going to be on trial will be the media and public.

There is no new evidence to bring to try to force a new trial or any such thing, but considering how much of a big deal Nurmi made throughout the retrial of her constitutional rights being trampled to the point of an unjust trial because of all of the media attention, I think we'll see another tent erected and the continuation of the Big Top circus, accusing the media and those of us who paid rapt attention of robbing her of the fair yet secret trial she is so deserving.

By the way, considering how JA began that secret testimony (a near-rereading of the letter she sent the Alexanders) I think except for the murder itself, we know how it would have proceeded (just by reading that diatribe), I suppose we'll all have to remain curious as to how she planned to replace its ninja story with the body slam/linebacker barrelling tale she told in Trial #1.

Did she plan to admit to remembering the knife going in his throat while he was still alive, or just another modified version of her original (lie #3) story? Tell a whole new story filling in the blanks from the now-cleared fog? I do wish, for that reason, her testimony could have continued, but in the end it doesn't matter, it wouldn't have approached the truth, and would have likely only been geared to hurt the Alexander family further.

About the PCR process. There is little chance she'll get a hearing at all. The first step is attorneys filing an argument that she deserves such a hearing. JSS (or replacement) will review that argument.

The argument made for ineffective counsel or new evidence has to be compelling enough to claim that the outcome of the trial would have been different if only but for her attorney, or if only had the new evidence been introduced. And BTW, she'd have to explain why the new evidence could not have been known at the time of the trial....

Only then would JSS take the next step and order an evidentiary hearing. Otherwise she can just essentially one word it- DENIED, and the process ends.

I agree with you that her attys want to play the media card as basis to argue for a new trial. I think that's been clear since during the guilt phase.

I believe that Nurmi knew she'd be found guilty and was pretty sure she would get the DP. The DT's job was to prevent her getting the DP and to lay down the basis for a DP appeal as they went along.

The Ninth Circuit, where her appeal would have eventually landed, is as a court anti-DP. They are wide open to being given appeals they can use to try to overturn DP convictions. The US Supreme Court chastises them on a regular basis for just that.

I think Nurmi's intent was to serve up the "novel" argument that the ubiquity of social media has fundamentally undermined the ability of high profile defendants to receive a fair trial.

Oops. But now she doesn't have those DP appeals lined up til kingdom comes, and the Ninth Circuit isn't on her dance card. My guess is that her appeals attys are running with that argument anyway, because it was there and developed and because they know they're not going to win on the merits of anything else they have.

 

[RickshawFan]

They had to of been taken before she left Mesa. The first of April. She told Det. Flores that the last time they had sex was in his bed in April. The phone calls were May from Yreka. She goes on and on about braids in one texts. She is dressed up as a schoolgirl? and doesn't want to go in Walgreens so she goes to s CVC.

She also says "we are out of or don't have" like a couple and Travis tells her he has or doesn't have it.

And in the March trip it wasn't all Jodi and Travis. it was Travis ditching Jodi the whole trip, and shouldn't this of been the trip she met Ryan Burns at? and she wa a blonde.

I just realized that what ALV said was a three way for sex with Jodi and other women was a PPL three way call. Not sex business. Also I noticed in the mass text that are sent out none have Jodi included.

I get confused....the March trip was to Oklahoma City?

I was thinking she snapped at least some of the nudies in the same project as she cobbled together the sex tape. She was in the groove, so to speak, of framing Travis.

I'm thinking she took the nudies of herself at any other time or the day of the murder. That Travis wasn't necessarily in the room. That she posed them, cropped them, photo-shopped them etc.

Do we have any written evidence that she really dressed up as a school girl? Or did she just do the braids thing? Do we have firm evidence(e.g. a text exchange) that they actually had sex in 2008?

It is fascinating how little evidence there is for actual sex. There doesn't seem to be that much reference to it in the texts? They don't seem to be actually in each other's physical presence that much?

 

[Hope4More]

I get confused....the March trip was to Oklahoma City?

I was thinking she snapped at least some of the nudies in the same project as she cobbled together the sex tape. She was in the groove, so to speak, of framing Travis.

I'm thinking she took the nudies of herself at any other time or the day of the murder. That Travis wasn't necessarily in the room. That she posed them, cropped them, photo-shopped them etc.

Do we have any written evidence that she really dressed up as a school girl? Or did she just do the braids thing? Do we have firm evidence(e.g. a text exchange) that they actually had sex in 2008?

It is fascinating how little evidence there is for actual sex. There doesn't seem to be that much reference to it in the texts? They don't seem to be actually in each other's physical presence that much?

Depends on what you mean by sex. There are plenty of mentions in texts about getting together for this or that, including Travis texting her- do you want to grind? Others about are you coming over, or her saying she was too tired to come over, these being in the early morning hours (1 or 2 AM).

There was a longish exchange in Jan where she was running around shopping for a romp costume, and that romp is the one for which she buys the spidies- it is a young girl costume of some sort

 

[RickshawFan]

* Good question. Only her hairdresser knows for sure! [rimshot]

Ya know, after thinking about everything I wrote earlier (sorry once again for the long post), it really doesn't make sense that Jodi would have used Travis' camera to take pictures of naked pictures for Mimi to see, or to get revenge on him, or to somehow blackmail a dead ex-boyfriend. Why? Simply because all those pictures were deleted from the memory card anyway. She never expected them to be recovered, or intended for anyone to ever see them. If she had thought for one minute that leaving those naked pictures on the memory card would benefit her in any way after killing Travis, she would have left those image files on the card and left it on the bathroom floor along with the broken camera she "accidentally dropped". But she didn't do that because she never expected to get caught. But either way, maybe it didn't matter in the long run anyway, as she still tried to use the naked pics in her defense at trial and that didn't work out so well for her. Well, unless your name is ALV, that is, because Travis was the bad guy and just look what he did to her! Anyway... so much for my epiphany earlier! lol

No, the only thing that makes any real sense at all to me about the naked pics is that getting naked with him that afternoon (even if only to take naked pics of each other) may have been Jodi's way of putting Travis at ease around her and getting him to let his guard down so she could begin putting her plan to murder him into motion -- contingent, of course, on her going to Cancun or not.

I swear sometimes this case seems as convoluted as the JFK assassination/conspiracy. Thankfully, Jodi doesn't have a "grassy" knoll -- though her having a grassy knoll certainly would have made looking at "it" easier on the eyes.

Hmm... now I'm wondering if she hadn't deleted the naked pics off the memory card, would L.E. still have searched for (and ultimately recover) any deleted image files or would they have been satisfied with the few files that were left on the card and not looked for any deleted picture files?

But Travis could have deleted the photos...

 

[Hope4More]

A general reply about the pics etc. scenarios. Personally I think they got naked that day (used "intimate" upstream instead of sex. They were NEVER intimate per se , IMO).


The best framework for analyzing what she intended that day isn't what we know after the fact. By definition its all speculation, then, but....

1. She didn't think she would get caught.

2. She thought she'd be able to prove, if need be, that she wasn't in AZ at all.

3. She didn't steal the gun to play make believe with Travis. She stole it to kill him.

4. She put a lot of time and effort and money she didn't have into planning then going on her June trip to Mesa. It was clearly going to be her last trip one way or another.

5. Factor in the possibility she thought she had a chance with him still (I don't think so)

6. She spent all May setting him up to have a record of him being a bad Mormon, etc. Planting sex pics on his camera wld be entirely consistent with her goal to destroy his reputation

7. Things didn't go as she planned. She stayed many hours longer then she intended - no pt in creating the Ryan alibi and then being so late he'd worry and start making calls).

8. Things didn't go as she planned and she didn't kill him in the shower. Way more cleanup and evidence manipulation than she had planned for, including a camera covered in blood and which had taken accidental photos.