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Victory! is leftist revolutionary (according to FBI profiler Clint VanZandt), and most leftist revolutionary countries don't 'respect' the US, right?

TY JMO!

I asked you to provide the source for that, Holdon. I'll ask again.

And, for my part (just so you won't accuse anybody of stating assumptions as fact), the note seems to be a very crude attempt to play on popular fears:
missing children, pedophile bogeymen (where's Chris Hansen when we need him?) and international terrorism. Now don't you think it's just a bit too much of a coincidence that Patsy Ramsey did a little stirring up of fear herself when she gave that "hold your babies close" speech?
 
What a coincidence, unknown male DNA found in JBR's underwear, matches DNA found also on her longjohns. Sortof rules out the old RDI favorite factory worker theory, doesn't it?

It makes the probability much lower. But we don't know the explanation for the DNA being there. We don't know who's it is either. If it belongs to a boy who was say 10 years old in '96, and was present at the Christmas party, then the explanation of how it got there might be very interesting, but it still won't catch the murderer.
 
It makes the probability much lower. But we don't know the explanation for the DNA being there. We don't know who's it is either. If it belongs to a boy who was say 10 years old in '96, and was present at the Christmas party, then the explanation of how it got there might be very interesting, but it still won't catch the murderer.

Problem is, we DO know how it got there.

Conspicuously.

It was mixed with JBRs blood in her underwear, AND it was on the waistband of her longjohns.

It wasn't known female DNA found on JBR's shirtsleeve. It was unknown male DNA found in highly conspicuous place. It is highly likely that the unknown male owner of the DNA is JBR's attacker, because of the circumstances under which both DNA samples were found. Thats probably why the DA wrote the letter.
 
I asked you to provide the source for that, Holdon. I'll ask again.

And, for my part (just so you won't accuse anybody of stating assumptions as fact), the note seems to be a very crude attempt to play on popular fears:
missing children, pedophile bogeymen (where's Chris Hansen when we need him?) and international terrorism. Now don't you think it's just a bit too much of a coincidence that Patsy Ramsey did a little stirring up of fear herself when she gave that "hold your babies close" speech?

You give me just one source of FBI or former FBI that stated "middle-aged female from the south" and I'll give you your source. I don't even care if it was said in 1996 and they've changed their minds. One profiler changed his mind but I can't remember which one.
 
Problem is, we DO know how it got there.

Conspicuously.

It was mixed with JBRs blood in her underwear, AND it was on the waistband of her longjohns.

It wasn't known female DNA found on JBR's shirtsleeve. It was unknown male DNA found in highly conspicuous place. It is highly likely that the unknown male owner of the DNA is JBR's attacker, because of the circumstances under which both DNA samples were found. Thats probably why the DA wrote the letter.


I wonder if ANY one of us were tested this very minute, how much foreign dna we might have on our bodies.

That doesn't mean that we KNOW every person we had contact with either.... just that we were NOT hiding in a plastic bubble.


IF the DA wants to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the male dna they discovered WAS part of the attack that left JB dead... they have an obligation to:

1) Test EVERY male that JB had contact with since her last bath/fingernail cleaning. That includes the boys she saw before & at the party. Let's exclude ALL potential males as being matches to this dna sample they are resting their flimsy assumption on.

2) Test other things that we KNOW the killer had to have touched.

The garrote, the rope, areas of her clothes that she could NOT have touched herself during a struggle or during sleep. Whatever evidence they have available SHOULD be tested if we are to believe this rush to exclude John was anything more than just more incompetency & stupidity coming out of Lacy's mouth.
 
You give me just one source of FBI or former FBI that stated "middle-aged female from the south" and I'll give you your source. I don't even care if it was said in 1996 and they've changed their minds. One profiler changed his mind but I can't remember which one.


http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/8/28/193035.shtml


Ransom Note Fits Profile of Patsy Ramsey

Ronald Kessler
Tuesday, Aug. 29, 2006

(snip)

A top former FBI profiler says Patricia Ramsey fits the profile of the person who wrote the ransom note in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case.

Dr. Roger Depue, who headed the FBI unit in charge of profiling, was asked at one point to examine the kidnap note and the circumstances surrounding it by Dr. Bertram Brown, a psychiatrist called in by Alex Hunter, then the district attorney in Boulder, Colo.

While Depue would not take a position on who killed the 6-year-old girl, he said the way the note was written fits the profile of JonBenet's mother, Patricia Ramsey. He gave his opinion before charges were dropped against John Mark Karr.



(snip)

That phrase is complimentary and suggests the writer is from the south, Depue said. Patsy Ramsey was born in West Virginia.
 
Problem is, we DO know how it got there.

Conspicuously.

It was mixed with JBRs blood in her underwear, AND it was on the waistband of her longjohns.

It wasn't known female DNA found on JBR's shirtsleeve. It was unknown male DNA found in highly conspicuous place. It is highly likely that the unknown male owner of the DNA is JBR's attacker, because of the circumstances under which both DNA samples were found. Thats probably why the DA wrote the letter.


No, we don't know how it got there. I think you mean suspicious, rather than conspicuous. Could someone have pulled up her long johns after she went to the bathroom? Could one of the boys at the party have grabbed her waistband during play? Was the dna deposited the day of the murder? Is the dna in the panties from secondary transfer? We know it's from a male, but that doesn't mean it's from the killer.

I know IDIs want to believe this absolutely proves it was an intruder, but it doesn't. It proves male dna was found at 3 points, 2 in her long johns, and one in her panties. The long john dna is more likely to be from primary transfer. The panty dna could well be from secondary transfer.

The primary transfer (and let's not take it as fact that it was primary, let's just say it's more likely) could still have an innocent explanation.

The dna has been running through CODIS weekly, for several years, and still no match. So it isn't any currently known paedophile. We don't know who it belongs to, or how it got there, or even the age, in 1996, of the person who left it.

The DA should not have written the letter. Most lawyers and detectives seem to agree that she should not have.


As an aside, it might have been interesting had other garments been tested. Is the same male dna on her top? How about testing some of the other pieces of evidence ?
 
No, we don't know how it got there. I think you mean suspicious, rather than conspicuous. Could someone have pulled up her long johns after she went to the bathroom? Could one of the boys at the party have grabbed her waistband during play? Was the dna deposited the day of the murder? Is the dna in the panties from secondary transfer? We know it's from a male, but that doesn't mean it's from the killer.

I know IDIs want to believe this absolutely proves it was an intruder, but it doesn't. It proves male dna was found at 3 points, 2 in her long johns, and one in her panties. The long john dna is more likely to be from primary transfer. The panty dna could well be from secondary transfer.

The primary transfer (and let's not take it as fact that it was primary, let's just say it's more likely) could still have an innocent explanation.

The dna has been running through CODIS weekly, for several years, and still no match. So it isn't any currently known paedophile. We don't know who it belongs to, or how it got there, or even the age, in 1996, of the person who left it.

The DA should not have written the letter. Most lawyers and detectives seem to agree that she should not have.


As an aside, it might have been interesting had other garments been tested. Is the same male dna on her top? How about testing some of the other pieces of evidence ?


Just to keep things straight.... the waistband tested was on the longjohns she was found in... the ones she allegedly wore to bed that night.

But it IS possible the dna found under her nails WAS totally innocent & JB transferred it from her own finger to her OWN body (wiping herself or touching herself) & to her own waistband while she lay in bed asleep.

Yep, the DA was an idiot to do such insufficient testing of evidence & then declare that she considered that could possibly exonerate her John.

DA obviously stands for Defense Attorney in Mary Lacy's world.
 
Just to keep things straight.... the waistband tested was on the longjohns she was found in... the ones she allegedly wore to bed that night.

But it IS possible the dna found under her nails WAS totally innocent & JB transferred it from her own finger to her OWN body (wiping herself or touching herself) & to her own waistband while she lay in bed asleep.

Yep, the DA was an idiot to do such insufficient testing of evidence & then declare that she considered that could possibly exonerate her John.

DA obviously stands for Defense Attorney in Mary Lacy's world.

Uh, I think JR 'is' exonerated.

No arrest, no charges, no trial. I think if everything claimed to be fact here by RDI were in fact a fact, there would've at least been a trial.

Again, you and I don't know the exact circumstances the DNA was found.

If the DNA was really mixed with blood as reported by the media, an investigator could have concluded that the only way the DNA could be in those locations, and in those forms, is by crime. It is something like this that makes me believe the DA decided to write the letter.
 

I have no idea what you mean. What does a church have to do with the closing salutation 'Victory!'

Remember, this is someone who chose to use a closing salutation 'Victory! Someone who does that on a routine basis would be very unusual.

There are no known religious references in the ransom note. There are, however, political references. There is a reference to the US. Fat cat, Victory!, 'foreign faction', 'southern common sense', 'not the country that it serves', and even 'proper burial' are all expressions that can be based in politics.
 
You give me just one source of FBI or former FBI that stated "middle-aged female from the south" and I'll give you your source. I don't even care if it was said in 1996 and they've changed their minds. One profiler changed his mind but I can't remember which one.

No problem. It was Robert K. Ressler, and he said it in 2006, not 1996. As for changing their minds, I'll hear that from them, if that's all right.
 
No arrest, no charges, no trial. I think if everything claimed to be fact here by RDI were in fact a fact, there would've at least been a trial.

Oh, come off it, man. There was no trial because there were two suspects who could have been equally guilty. Two suspects=no suspects. Cases like this aren't usually broken by forensic evidence. You break them by arresting the two and grilling them until one gives up the other. The police WANTED to do that. The DA said no. They COULD have bugged the phone. Nobody would go for it. They could have wired the house. Nobody would go for it.

Again, you and I don't know the exact circumstances the DNA was found.

Agreed.

If the DNA was really mixed with blood as reported by the media, an investigator could have concluded that the only way the DNA could be in those locations, and in those forms, is by crime. It is something like this that makes me believe the DA decided to write the letter.

Maybe so, but is it the right conclusion. You seem to forget just how far in the tank the DA is for the Ramseys. And that's not just my opinion. Ask Tom Haney, for starters.
 
:spit:
SuperDave, I've never laid eyes on Van Zandt in my life. You must have me confused with another poster. No biggie. It happens when you read so much in the case through the years. Sorry, wish I had been there.

One more thing: Do people really "GET" how small a DNA strand is? It's a small PART of a CELL. We're talking about a PARTIAL strand of DNA in the underwear, which isn't even positively identified as being from a cell of saliva or mucous or skin, and a few strands of DNA collected from the long johns, which they ALSO can't positively identify as saliva, mucous, or skin. If you read the TV interviews done with the lab scientist who did the actual processing of the long johns, you will see she only says the cells from which come the DNA "are most likely skin cells". She doesn't actually know, then, does she?

Now think about this: you could get thousands of cells on the head of a pin. Here's an interesting animation to compare red blood cells to the head of a pin and a human hair. Don't forget to use the "magnification" arrows to go up and down from the pinhead to the cells and viruses. (That ebola one gets me!)

http://www.cellsalive.com/howbig.htm

Now think about the Bloomies being huge enough to move quite randomly over the body, and they're inside the long johns, which Patsy said she put on JonBenet that night. So how can we know that the minute cells, some only having degraded strands of DNA, didn't transfer from the long johns to the underwear, or vice versa? Patsy had her hands on the sides of the long johns, could have pulled up the huge Bloomies first without even thinking about it, as they surely would have come down with the pants when Patsy pulled those off, as loose as the underwear was. Was it impossible for Patsy to transfer that DNA around in dressing the child?

It's simply not prudent to throw out all the other evidence because of a few cells of DNA found in the child's clothes that have an unknown donar, IMO. This science is so new, so untested in court, it's mind boggling that Lacy didn't think about how far out on a limb she was going with it.

Now I'm trying to figure out what happened with the bloodstains on the "shirt", the "white blanket", and the "nightgown", listed in the lab document screen captured from one of the shows on this case. Who does that DNA belong to? Mark Beckner was asked about it under oath, by Lin Wood in a deposition. Beckner wouldn't say much, but what we can glean from what he did say is that someone else's DNA was found at the crime scene, and that person may have been identified, as well. If it's someone with an alibi or innocent reason for their DNA to be there, it only goes to show how easily DNA/cells move around this world in which we live without us knowing it.

Well, food for thought. We really don't know what is the importance of what we're being fed until we hear it testified to in court under oath, or until we see the documents at the very least.
 
Sorry, KK. I thought you said elsewhere that you had seen him say this on TV. Something about a book seminar?
 
No problem. It was Robert K. Ressler, and he said it in 2006, not 1996. As for changing their minds, I'll hear that from them, if that's all right.

SD, sorry but you still haven't given me the source. Did you read it in a book, a magazine, or perhaps a news source online? Do you have a link or a source for that quote? Maybe the name of the book you read it in? Remember we're asking for a source for 'middle-aged woman from the south'.
 
So...you think she was killed by Che Guevara?
Che Guevara no. Foreign leftist, yes.

"You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult"

Doesn't that seem to fit a foreign leftist extremist? Keeping in mind many leftist extremists are in fact against personal/private wealth. This country is seen as a symbol of decadence, power, money and all that. The US doesn't get along with most countries on the extreme left.
 
Here's another interesting animation. Click on the nucleus and you'll see that within the cell, the DNA is inside the nucleus.

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/units/basics/cell/

DNA is really tiny. What was found in the Bloomies was not even a complete DNA profile.

Now here is my question: how many cells do you have to have to figure out if it's skin or saliva, etc.? The Bode Tech scientist said they know it wasn't spermatozoa nor blood, because those have obvious components they recognize easily--I'm speculating here as she didn't explain fully. So why can't they figure out if the DNA they have is skin or saliva, etc.? Not enough?
 

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