Serious DNA discussion

[LinasK]

Easy, tough guy. Truce, okay? It didn't have to be me. I'm just a little tired of having my motives questioned. That's what I was referring to, not the ideas you have. I'm so sick of hearing how I have no mind of my own. You want to make your points, that's fine. I do the same.

As for me "chiming in," last I checked that's what we were all here for. It's part of being a forum, as the term is understood.

Yeah, I dig. Fine by me.

SuperDave has my permission to chime in for me. He knows where I'm coming from and can articulate my position as well as I.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But has it occurred to you that Patsy misspelled 'business' on purpose to deflect attention away from herself, when she managed to spell 'attache' and 'hence' just fine?????

Without taking things too seriously, has it occurred to you, really, that in reality, NOBODY EVEN NOTICED THE RN AUTHOR MISSPELLED BUSINESS, and nobody noticed that PR misspelled 'advise' in her exemplars either.

 

[BBB167893]

Somewhere here I read there were 'urine spots' in the hallway? True?

I think so.

For some psychological reason I need therapy for I just have difficulty in seeing John molesting her.

A snake is capable of much. Think about it: John likes to be the boss; he likes to manipulate people. A child is an apt target for that kind of behavior.

I don't know enough about the behavior where abuse/incest is happening - are the relationships apparently close & 'happy' or is the 'distant father' routine more common?

It runs the spectrum, from what I know.

We want justice for a little girl whose own parents used her and didn't care about her. I hope she is in heaven and her criminal mother rots in hell!

I sympathize, LinasK. But I have my own take on that.

Since LinasK gave me leave to do so, I'll tackle this one:

Without taking things too seriously, has it occurred to you, really, that in reality, NOBODY EVEN NOTICED THE RN AUTHOR MISSPELLED BUSINESS, and nobody noticed that PR misspelled 'advise' in her exemplars either.

We've considered everything around here, Holdon. The "advise" bit slipped by a lot of people, I grant you, but that's not the fault of the writer, is it?
It doesn't take away from LinasK's main point, which I and a few other people agree with, BTW. If memory serves, a few people actually DID notice the misspelling of "business" AND "possession" (another one I screw up now and then), but I think they thought what LinasK thought: that anyone who could spell "attache," "authorities" and "underestimate" correctly was probably trying to pull a fast one.

 

[twinkiesmom]

No it isn't.

I could write that word 50 times in 50 ways and never spell it b-u-s-s. And I was reading at a first graders level in first grade!



Maybe she wasn't a dedicated EASL student. You say that she is EASL, but you don't say she even studied English. There's many EASL people I know who aren't motivated to learn English so their grammer stays the same

We know that whoever wrote the note is lying because there was no ransom, and no living hostage at the time it was written. It is a work of deception.

The misspelling of business is completely out of the character of the rest of the piece. I would attribute it to deliberate deception rather than honest mistake.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I don't know enough about the behavior where abuse/incest is happening - are the relationships apparently close & 'happy' or is the 'distant father' routine more common?

Daytime soiling in a 6 year old in the absence of a medical condition is almost indicative of abuse.

 

[Ames]

You made ONE mistake, Ames. Nobody ruled her out. There wasn't anyone who refused to rule her in! That's it.

Still, you ask a valid question, along with the one you asked me about the worn-down pen.

Speaking of samples taken before the crime, would photograph captions count? Let's just say.

Well, yeah...that is true about nobody ruling Patsy out, I was just trying to humor Holdon, since he/she thinks that she WAS ruled out.

I have always wondered about that pen, NOW if it had of been a ball point pen, it wouldn't have made a difference. As a matter of fact, in the articles that I posted about collecting handwriting samples, it says that the suspect (for lack of a better word) can even use their OWN pen. This would only be the case for a ball point pen though. A pen such as a sharpie, or magic marker...would get worn down, and the writing would look different. They should have given Patsy the SAME Sharpie that was used to write the RN with, if they wanted a true comparison.

 

[Ames]

Okay, so you don't misspell it. We can rule you out!

I never said I misspelled it like that, just that I did.

As for my aunt, I KNOW she studied SOME English, since she knew she'd have to go back to America with my uncle. Maybe it's just harder with some languages.

And I have also misspelled business, lots of times, so you are not the only one.

 

[angelwngs]

We know that whoever wrote the note is lying because there was no ransom, and no living hostage at the time it was written. It is a work of deception.

The misspelling of business is completely out of the character of the rest of the piece. I would attribute it to deliberate deception rather than honest mistake.

The misspellings were noted earlier in this thread and it was posted that JR had a habit of having issues of misspelling 'double s words'...

The author may have known this and deliberately attempted to make JR appear to be the author or...the obvious 'other' conclusion, the letter was not only dictated but spelling was offered to a very 'out of it' writer of the letter.

 

[Ames]

But has it occurred to you that Patsy misspelled 'business' on purpose to deflect attention away from herself, when she managed to spell 'attache' and 'hence' just fine?????

I agree, I think that she did it on purpose too.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We know that whoever wrote the note is lying because there was no ransom, and no living hostage at the time it was written. It is a work of deception.

The misspelling of business is completely out of the character of the rest of the piece. I would attribute it to deliberate deception rather than honest mistake.

There is no fact that precludes the RN being written in the evening by an intruder, while the R's were at the W's. It is also not factually known the original motive for JBR's murder. So this is simply another claim presented as fact.

There is nothing that places the writing of the RN before or after the murder, except your guesses.

 

[twinkiesmom]

There is no fact that precludes the RN being written in the evening by an intruder, while the R's were at the W's. It is also not factually known the original motive for JBR's murder. So this is simply another claim presented as fact.

There is nothing that places the writing of the RN before or after the murder, except your guesses.

Fine, you can argue timing, but you can't argue the factual accurateness of the ransom note. The outcome of the crime argues against it.

 

[Ames]

Without taking things too seriously, has it occurred to you, really, that in reality, NOBODY EVEN NOTICED THE RN AUTHOR MISSPELLED BUSINESS, and nobody noticed that PR misspelled 'advise' in her exemplars either.

What has anybody not noticing (in fact, ALOT of people noticed it)...have to do with Patsy's or the author of the RN's (imo...one in the same) spelling?? One has nothing to do with the other. SO WHAT if not alot of people noticed it. I don't see what your point is. IMO...Patsy KNEW which word she spelled wrong in the RN, because she did it on purpose. The word business was spelled wrong in the RN, so of course...she is going to spell it right in her sample. The word advise was spelled right in the RN, so of course, Patsy is going to spell it wrong in her sample....even though its a 4th grade spelling word (don't believe me? Look it up...the internet has a wealth of information). OF course, she is going to do the opposite of the RN, she wasn't stupid. Its not rocket science here.

 

[Ames]

There is no fact that precludes the RN being written in the evening by an intruder, while the R's were at the W's. It is also not factually known the original motive for JBR's murder. So this is simply another claim presented as fact.

There is nothing that places the writing of the RN before or after the murder, except your guesses.

It was you, that said in a post awhile back, Holdon...that in the basement, when JB screamed..the small foreign faction hit her over the head, and then fled. SOOOOO....if the small foreign faction didn't write it before the murder, or after the murder...since they fled and all, then WHEN did they write it?? Common sense rules here...(as my "darling" husband tells me all the time), it had to have been written BEFORE the killing.

 

[Ames]

Fine, you can argue timing, but you can't argue the factual accurateness of the ransom note. The outcome of the crime argues against it.

I really don't think that Holdon KNOWS what his/her own theory is.

 

[LI_Mom]

It was you, that said in a post awhile back, Holdon...that in the basement, when JB screamed..the small foreign faction hit her over the head, and then fled. SOOOOO....if the small foreign faction didn't write it before the murder, or after the murder...since they fled and all, then WHEN did they write it?? Common sense rules here...(as my "darling" husband tells me all the time), it had to have been written BEFORE the killing.

That's one F.U. SFF

lol

 

[coloradokares]

[qute=LI_Mom;2409690]That's one F.U. SFF

lol[/quote]



Boy oh boy :clap:You got that right!!

 

[Solace]

But has it occurred to you that Patsy misspelled 'business' on purpose to deflect attention away from herself, when she managed to spell 'attache' and 'hence' just fine?????

Yes Linask, I think she did.

 

[BBB167893]

There is no fact that precludes the RN being written in the evening by an intruder, while the R's were at the W's.

Oh, isn't there?

It is also not factually known the original motive for JBR's murder. So this is simply another claim presented as fact.

Wait for it, wait for it.

There is nothing that places the writing of the RN before or after the murder, except your guesses.

Really? Well, let me take a crack at it!

1) The FBI believes "the note was written in the house, after the killing and indicated panic." Since they do this kind of work EVERY DAY, I'd like to think they know what they're talking about. You have to wonder how someone could come to such a high-risk crime so unprepared. But that's just a starter.

2) What tips us off about the note being written after the crime is that the Ramseys disobeyed EVERY instruction in it, thus guaranteeing that JB would be killed. Why would they do that?

Let's go from the general to the specific. Again, it helps to take a holistic view of the case:

3) Why would someone leave a note claiming to be a kidnapper if there was no kidnapping? Since there was no attempt at kidnapping ( the lack of evidence of any kind of struggle on JB's part bears that out), the note was fake. If JB had been alive, there would be no need to write a fake note. So why would someone write a fake note when they knew that JB was already dead?

4) Because someone needed an excuse for why JB's body would be found in the house.

Here's how I got there:

5) The last paragraph sets the stage for JB being found dead: "You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us."

6) The Ramseys disobeyed the specific instructions: they were warned not to call police or JB would die. They called police. The note warned, "if we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies." They called a whole mess of their friends over. That they disobeyed is not a "guess," it's a fact.

EQUALS:

The note writer knew JB was already dead and needed a reason for JB to be found dead inside the house.

 

[UKGuy]

Without taking things too seriously, has it occurred to you, really, that in reality, NOBODY EVEN NOTICED THE RN AUTHOR MISSPELLED BUSINESS, and nobody noticed that PR misspelled 'advise' in her exemplars either.

Holdontoyourhat
Well I must apologise for offering you some daylight in the form of some contemporary reality, patently you do no research, otherwise you would have unearthed this gem:

Criminal Profiler Roger L. Depue, Chief of the FBI's Behavioural Science Unit, at Quantico, who on retirement, went onto setup an elite forensics company The Academy Group, was requested by Bert Brown, who was acting as a consultant on behalf of Boulder DA's office, to review and offer an opinion on JonBenet's homicide, specifically with respect to the ransom note. The following is a summary account.

Roger was sent a photocopy of the two and half page note, written on a legal pad. The question asked , was what type of person might have written it?

Roger's view was that the ransom note was a crime scene in and of itself, hard physical evidence that remained as fresh as it was on the day it was found. And it could be interpreted. The written word word is human behaviour, like any other behaviour, and it will betray the traits and characteristics of the writer.

In two decades of analyzing written crime scene evidence I'd never seen a two-and-a-half-page, hand printed ransom note. Never. Thats how unusual it was. Criminals who write ransom notes are trying to get across only the information that they need to. Anything else is superfluous, and only going to give more clues about their identity, and theres no need need to write an opus. A real kidnapper has no interest in revealing the kind of information that this note did. According to my analysis, here are some telling characteristics:

The note begins with a formal salutation, followed by an exclamation point. The author wants the reader to 'hear' the message, as if the material will be spoken or read to someone.

"a group of individuals" - this usually means one person trying to appear as a group.

"a small foreign faction" - foreign to whom? A meaningless phrase.

"respect your bussiness" - misspelled, but shows an awareness of John Ramsey's business.

"posession" - again, shows the authors proclivity for misspelling double S words.

"but not the country it serves" - a political staement inappropriate to the goal of ransom.

"withdraw $118,000.00 from your account" - shows proprietary information, i.e. knowledge of the precise amount of John Ramsey's bonus, and that it is in a bank account rather than somewhere else, as in other investments.

"Make sure you bring an adequate size attache to the bank" and "I advise you to be rested" - both maternal sounding remarks. Shows motherly. Also, why 'attache' and not the more common 'attache case'?

"You will...be...denied burial" - more likely to be said by a female than a male. Also suggests the victim is already dead. If the victim is still alive, burial would be the least of anyones concerns.

"gentlemen" and "watching over" - again, more likely to be used by a female.

"fat cat" - an expression common in the 1950's and 1960's. Indicates a writer in the forty-something bracket.

"Use that good southern common sense of yours" - a phrase not likely to come to mind from a Northerner. The writer is likely from the South, and knows that Ramsey is too.

"Victory!" - Inappropriate. Meaningless for a kidnap ransom note. A clumsy attempt to sound like a terrorist.

"S.B.T.C." - no known organization, and no explanation of the acronym.

"at this time," "to the letter" "hence" - habitual expressions.

In addition, the three exclamation points and other punctuation indicate a relatively educated, literate writer. The sophisticated vocabulary (faction, monitor, deviation, provoke, countermeasures, etc) and grammar (largely correct) also point to a educated person.

The gradual shift from "I" to "we" in the second paragraph makes it doubtful that the writer is from a group, let alone a group of terrorists. In addition, the note doesn't demand enough money (considering the Ramsey's wealth) for taking a kidnapping risk. And its overall tone, which becomes more threatening throughout, suggests someone on intimate terms with John ramsey to chide him. "Dont try to grow a brain John". My overwhelming feeling about this note is that there is too much Hollywood in it. Good people make bad criminals, and the note smacks of inauthenticity. It shows a low level of criminal sophistication, and was most likely witten to distract authorities from conducting an immediate investigation of the complete, which it did.

There was certainly a lot of crime scene information, other than than this note, to process. We know for example, that the killer apparently took the time to write a practise note which began: "dear Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey.". But just sticking to the written material given to me, I could tell a lot. My analysis indicated that, operationally, the note was prepared without much planning, and contained inconsistencies not expected in a bona fide kidnap demand note; psychologically the perpetrator was sane and stable, but distressed, and of low criminal compotence. Furthermore, my profile of the writer revealed someone who was in all likelihood white, female, Southern, well educated, middle-aged, and ewho knew John Ramsey, his personal life, and business, quite well.

A similar account and profile was transmitted to the DA's office via Bert Brown.

 

[BBB167893]

Nice work, UKGuy.