Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

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Hey folks -

here is Shannan's call to CVS.
I took a picture of the tv screen when this came up.

It shows that she called at 2:55am and that the call was ONE minute long. It shows that CVS is at 460 Montalk Hwy, West Islip, NY 11795.

Does anyone think that they actually WENT to that CVS?

If so - is it within fifteen minutes....of Oak Beach Association?

tkm
 

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Hey folks -

here is Shannan's call to CVS.
I took a picture of the tv screen when this came up.

It shows that she called at 2:55am and that the call was ONE minute long. It shows that CVS is at 460 Montalk Hwy, West Islip, NY 11795.

Does anyone think that they actually WENT to that CVS?

If so - is it within fifteen minutes....of Oak Beach Association?

tkm

If they did go to the CVS, are there any video cameras at that CVS? Either at the store entrance or at the Pharmacy? I thought it would be common practice to have some sort of surveillance at a store that prescribes drugs.

I'm sure LE did interviews of those who worked there, but was it too long of a wait to where the people can't remember the night in question? Was it too late and the CVS no longer has the video?

Was a debt card/credit card or cash used at the CVS? If they did indeed go to the CVS.
Were any receipts found along with SG's belongings or at JB's house?
Can MP or JB deny or confirm going to the CVS?
 
If they did go to the CVS, are there any video cameras at that CVS? Either at the store entrance or at the Pharmacy? I thought it would be common practice to have some sort of surveillance at a store that prescribes drugs.

I'm sure LE did interviews of those who worked there, but was it too long of a wait to where the people can't remember the night in question? Was it too late and the CVS no longer has the video?

Was a debt card/credit card or cash used at the CVS? If they did indeed go to the CVS.
Were any receipts found along with SG's belongings or at JB's house?
Can MP or JB deny or confirm going to the CVS?

MP denied that he or anyone else went to the CVS that night.
 
I am sure there are records of all prescriptions filled that night.
 
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html


Pak said he doesn’t really understand Brewer’s story about Gilbert being a man and he thinks she and Brewer might have had sex. At one point, he said Gilbert called on her cell phone from the house asking him to get lubricant and a deck of playing cards from a CVS. Pak said he told her he didn’t want to go because he didn’t know the area.

"When I told her this, she said she would find her own way home and hung up on me," he said.
 
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html


Pak said he doesn’t really understand Brewer’s story about Gilbert being a man and he thinks she and Brewer might have had sex. At one point, he said Gilbert called on her cell phone from the house asking him to get lubricant and a deck of playing cards from a CVS. Pak said he told her he didn’t want to go because he didn’t know the area.

"When I told her this, she said she would find her own way home and hung up on me," he said.

Pak also speculated that it was a common ruse to use up more clients time, the cvs trip, which seems plausible enough. The problem I have with that is that the call was 1 hr after her arrival and they already went for the 15 minute trip.
 
Pak also speculated that it was a common ruse to use up more clients time, the cvs trip, which seems plausible enough. The problem I have with that is that the call was 1 hr after her arrival and they already went for the 15 minute trip.

When and where was the 15 minute trip? Did I miss something? CVS?
Yep, I must have missed that, I just double checked my time line and I don"t have that there. Any info on the 15 minute trip would be great.
 
In my opinion strategically filing a misdemeanor sextrade charge against Pak or anyone else would be very shortsighted. From a legal standpoint it is not the slam dunk conviction some people are painting it to be.

First of all the only key evidence would be the statements made by the would be accused gave in their statements. That testimony can be recanted at a minimum and more likely you would see the defense ask that the statements be excluded from evidence. Confessions get thrown out all the time, would be accused had their rights violated, don't have to testify against yourself, LE didn't inform them appropriately, yada yada.... but my point being that you can't hinge the entire case on a verbal statement that can be recanted or possibly excluded.

In the bigger picture if you assume that the would be accused (insert POI name here) is possibly a serial killer taking them to trial on a misdemeanor charge could put the state in the position of having to release evidence that they are not ready to reveal yet. Big risk for a pretty minor payoff. A misdemeanor charge carries a MAXIMUM of a year in jail.
You could also effect what this person could be charged afterwards.

It is complicated but the State cannot take the crime committed/the event/incident charge you with crime A, let you do your time and then haul you back into court using the same event/incident/evidence and charge you with crimes BC and D. You open the door for defense to argue that additional more serious charges can't be filed depending/based on how you define the event. Again a risk that when compared to the payoff?

The reality is that the people who are likely to be the key witnesses to identifying this serial killer are most likely going to have criminal issues of their own. Sex trade, illegal drugs, probation violations. It is not going to encourage people to call LE and say they had a john they think is creepy if they think you are going to charge them with solicitation, whether we are talking about the girl or her pimp.

It is frustrating how long these investigations take and it would at least *feel* like something was happening, someone was being held accountable for their admitted sins. It is not an issue, in my opinion, of lazy prosecution, sloppy police work, or apathy because the victims are prostitutes.

Excellent points Impatient, except

1)How can MP recant he drove SG to Oak Beach. and who can recant SG was selling sex, her family can testify to that fact. JB can state he did not hire SG for sex, and no sex conduct took place. The fact lubricant was purchased while SG was with JB proves that sexual conduct was planned or intended. For a conviction under the statute the DA has to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a)MP drove SG to Oak Beach, and b)she was offering sexual services. Is there anybody on this forum believe that did not happen?



One other thing, Impatient that you might be forgetting about is context.

The context I am talking about is time. and the fact that it is a pretty foregone conclusion that MP is not the LISK..

It has been two years since the crime took place. Using a 'do nothing so we do not mess up down the road' approach has the identical results of just doing nothing.

The worst thing that can happen by charging MP is the case never makes it to trial, which is where we are now so we are already experiencing the worst case scenario.

The second worst thing that can happen is MP or somebody else is identified as the LISK, and it would be difficult to charge that person. However if a trial of MP in relationship to SG identifies the SK, there are still ten other deaths that the SK could be charged with. So nothing that happens in a trial of MP could or would be prejudicial in a trial for the other 10 deaths.

My friend Truth believes LE is watching CPH very closely and are ready to pounce. But CPH is fully aware of being monitored and has behaved himself.

Imagine if in a trial charging MP with an accomplice to prostitution; the District Attorney subpoenas CPH to relate the events of that night. CPH must tell the truth, or can be charged with perjury, and he must answer all questions regarding MP and SG. Better than a Lie Detector.

Understand, if the LISK, whoever it is, does not kill another person, chances are he will never be arrested. To date LE does not have enough evidence.


As an aside I find it surprising how many people are saying what I suggest will not work, knowing full well the alternative for the last two years is doing nothing. I can accept my suggestion has many weak points, I just do not want to wait another two years for nothing to happen.

If somebody has a better action plan let us here it.

MOO
 
Excellent points Impatient, except

1)How can MP recant he drove SG to Oak Beach. and who can recant SG was selling sex, her family can testify to that fact. JB can state he did not hire SG for sex, and no sex conduct took place. The fact lubricant was purchased while SG was with JB proves that sexual conduct was planned or intended. For a conviction under the statute the DA has to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a)MP drove SG to Oak Beach, and b)she was offering sexual services. Is there anybody on this forum believe that did not happen?



One other thing, Impatient that you might be forgetting about is context.

The context I am talking about is time. and the fact that it is a pretty foregone conclusion that MP is not the LISK..

It has been two years since the crime took place. Using a 'do nothing so we do not mess up down the road' approach has the identical results of just doing nothing.

The worst thing that can happen by charging MP is the case never makes it to trial, which is where we are now so we are already experiencing the worst case scenario.

The second worst thing that can happen is MP or somebody else is identified as the LISK, and it would be difficult to charge that person. However if a trial of MP in relationship to SG identifies the SK, there are still ten other deaths that the SK could be charged with. So nothing that happens in a trial of MP could or would be prejudicial in a trial for the other 10 deaths.

My friend Truth believes LE is watching CPH very closely and are ready to pounce. But CPH is fully aware of being monitored and has behaved himself.

Imagine if in a trial charging MP with an accomplice to prostitution; the District Attorney subpoenas CPH to relate the events of that night. CPH must tell the truth, or can be charged with perjury, and he must answer all questions regarding MP and SG. Better than a Lie Detector.

Understand, if the LISK, whoever it is, does not kill another person, chances are he will never be arrested. To date LE does not have enough evidence.


As an aside I find it surprising how many people are saying what I suggest will not work, knowing full well the alternative for the last two years is doing nothing. I can accept my suggestion has many weak points, I just do not want to wait another two years for nothing to happen.

If somebody has a better action plan let us here it.

MOO

why can't the family attorney for shannan sue pak for wrongful death?

if a bartender serves a patron one too many drinks....and they.... drive home and (of course have been drinking) and an accident happens and someone gets killed - it comes BACK to the bartender who can be charged for wrongful death.

so....pak DROVE her to oak beach - crossed state lines...
and he SPLIT and she ended up deceased.

what is wrong with charging him with wrongful death? and jb too....
whether he had sex - or was talking the origins of mankind with shannan....be it sumaria or ...planet x.....HE HIRED HER to go to oak beach and she's deceased.

impatient red head? can you respond to that?
thank u
tkm

:jail::jail::jail:

:truce::truce::truce:
 
I think that we should all remember that a corpse left in ocean-side marshland for that length of time would be vulnerable to predators, bacteria, water drift, and natural degeneration. It shouldn't surprise us that the autopsy revealed so little.

Shannan Gilbert's death was tragic. Imagining that it was the work of a serial killer would not make more or less tragic.
 
When and where was the 15 minute trip? Did I miss something? CVS?
Yep, I must have missed that, I just double checked my time line and I don"t have that there. Any info on the 15 minute trip would be great.

pak said jb and sg took a 15 minute drive once mp and sg arrived at the house presumably between 2 and 3 am ...

the cvs call was at 2:55

I believe that no one went to cvs. Pak suggested that it was a way to buy more time, but then why didn't pak go? It would have been more money for him. His suggestion that it was a common tactic they used doesn't jive with the reality that he refused to go.

My truth meter... is reading bullsh1t on at least one side of this equation. It's either a well used tactic by the duo and he goes to cvs cuz it will put more cash in his pocket or the call was in related to drugs and pak doesn't want to admit the truth.
 
pak said jb and sg took a 15 minute drive once mp and sg arrived at the house presumably between 2 and 3 am ...

the cvs call was at 2:55

I believe that no one went to cvs. Pak suggested that it was a way to buy more time, but then why didn't pak go? It would have been more money for him. His suggestion that it was a common tactic they used doesn't jive with the reality that he refused to go.

My truth meter... is reading bullsh1t on at least one side of this equation. It's either a well used tactic by the duo and he goes to cvs cuz it will put more cash in his pocket or the call was in related to drugs and pak doesn't want to admit the truth.

truth

why dont you place a fresh order of truth serum
and then see them talk?
 
The family could bring a wrongful death civil suit. If he doesn't have any assets or future income stream it would be costly to incur all those legal fees with nothing to recoup. And of course you have a cause of death undetermined so that is going to be an obstacle to say the outcome would have been different. If he was a legitimate security person, licensed and operating a business there would be an insurance company and corporate assets you could try to attach a judgement to...


why can't the family attorney for shannan sue pak for wrongful death?

if a bartender serves a patron one too many drinks....and they.... drive home and (of course have been drinking) and an accident happens and someone gets killed - it comes BACK to the bartender who can be charged for wrongful death.

so....pak DROVE her to oak beach - crossed state lines...
and he SPLIT and she ended up deceased.

what is wrong with charging him with wrongful death? and jb too....
whether he had sex - or was talking the origins of mankind with shannan....be it sumaria or ...planet x.....HE HIRED HER to go to oak beach and she's deceased.

impatient red head? can you respond to that?
thank u
tkm

:jail::jail::jail:

:truce::truce::truce:
 
truth

why dont you place a fresh order of truth serum
and then see them talk?

Administering truth serum is considered torture under international law, but who the hell cares about international laws when you are inside the US? Nobody is coming in to the US to prosecute Americans, and I don't think there is a law against administering truth serum in NY(I will actually check with my criminal attorney about this assumption tomorrow), it certainly isn't ruled out in the OIBA code of conduct. You can get it off craigslist.ru if you know how to look, but I don't prefer it, I'm a truth spider remember? I bite everybody until I get what I need from them, put their data in my network, then repeat the previous steps until I can deduce the truth.

Have no fear TKM the truth hurts no matter how you achieve it, and you can't hide from the truth because the truth is all there is (right prince paul?). If you don't believe me, just ask CPH about JD #9098 and watch his face keenly, that truth pains him like a ruptured kidney.
 
Administering truth serum is considered torture under international law, but who the hell cares about international laws when you are inside the US? Nobody is coming in to the US to prosecute Americans, and I don't think there is a law against administering truth serum in NY(I will actually check with my criminal attorney about this assumption tomorrow), it certainly isn't ruled out in the OIBA code of conduct. You can get it off craigslist.ru if you know how to look, but I don't prefer it, I'm a truth spider remember? I bite everybody until I get what I need from them, put their data in my network, then repeat the previous steps until I can deduce the truth.

I believe Jeffrey MacDonald was administered sodium pentathol back in the 70's or 80's. He was an officer in the US Army if that makes a legal diffrence.
 
I believe Jeffrey MacDonald was administered sodium pentathol back in the 70's or 80's. He was an officer in the US Army if that makes a legal diffrence.

Back when this country had a ball sack.
 
Okay, I didn't follow the forum for a few day )as I said in the radio show). Now I come back and find a discussion about truth serum ... for a guy, who had already an inconclusive lie detector test. So how desperate are you to nail a murder on JB or CPh or MP or Oak Beach residents instead of looking for the LISK? Or is there any reason for distraction?

Peter
 
Okay, I didn't follow the forum for a few day )as I said in the radio show). Now I come back and find a discussion about truth serum ... for a guy, who had already an inconclusive lie detector test. So how desperate are you to nail a murder on JB or CPh or MP or Oak Beach residents instead of looking for the LISK? Or is there any reason for distraction?

Peter

Sounds like you have forgotten the details of the actual case, CPH refused to take poly. But don't worry, we don't need him to there is a long line of respected honest people willing to give testimony that he is a pathological liar. In case you missed it, this was all well documented already in the Newspaper here in New York in the 1990's.
 
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