Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[MrsPC]

on another note.. in those Suffolk County minutes there is reference to the Medical Examiner contracting with NYC for the anthropology of the remains

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS050511.pdf

Forensic -- our Medical Examiner had entered into an agreement with the New York City Medical Examiner's Office, their Forensic Anthropologist, and that served us very well. Brad Adams, nationally recognized, kind of was instrumental in doing the forensic analysis of the remains that were found and we were able to quickly -- they were able to quickly identify the four.

so perhaps Mr Adams is the person who is still working with Gilbert's remains as well.

 

[MrsPC]

here's a 2006 article about the anthropologist Brad Adams

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/21/nyregion/21examiner.html

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

re: the scpd copper writing the public letter regarding shannan being calm, cool and collect ........blowing the theory out of the water that she was running thru oak beach screaming hysterically that "they're trying to kill me" and then
oh my gosh - who'd a thunk it

shannan ends up DEAD DEAD JUST DEAD.


you have numerous neighbors who called the police to say that she was banging on doors - and running thru the community screaming for help.

there were interviews way early on in this case -with these neighbors talking to the press be it printed press - in associated press publications
or videographers be it - newsday - or new york daily news - or even the new york post.

the scpd copper is going to have to really state his facts much more coherently about shannan being calm, cool and rational - and stop publically putting forth DISinformation and MISinformation about her.

You have Robin Sax - the original "alleged" attorney for the gilbert family - on tv - stating repeatedly on interview after interview that Shannan was running thru the community of oak beach screaming "they're trying to kill me"

Is the good copper from SCPD misinformed? has he really listened to the call like he said he did? I dont think so - he didnt listen to the same phone call that Robin Sax listened to - because she quoted that call.

All you have to do is watch the 48 hours with erin moriority interviewing family members and people on the case. Robin Sax had her own private investigators on the case - early on in this case - from the missing Megan Waterman --

STOP BLAMING the victims Paximus - that's the oldest M.O. in the world.
There is a psychopathic very ruthless, clever and psychotic serial killer out there in that "oak beach" community (and i say "oak beach" and i'll give it a 20 mile radius - if you fan it out)

Serial Killers evolve - they blend in with society and can be the guy next door.
Shannan Gilbert was a victim of being sexually trafficked, as were the other young ladies that were killed. Do you have any idea how bad things are for the girls that are sexually trafficked? Megan Waterman had a daughter that she loved very very much.

It is completely egregious to state that shannan was running around the oak beach community due to an episode of bi-polar disorder. When someone is trying to strangle you - and you are drugged up - due to people putting drugs in you - and you are fighting for your life
for your very life
its a fight or flight response
and Shannan FOUGHT.
but she lost.

sadly she lost.

 

[scandi]

Whats funny is we have on these forums talked about this angle before (Malia) it is quiet interesting, sometimes things come full circle?
I am more interested in the info of the bf telling LE about the reg John on LI they knew about. Where is this info, I just dont recall it.
thanks

I've never heard anything specific about a 'regular John'. If the name hasn't been put out there in the MSM we couldn't discuss it anyway, but gosh darn, if anyone knows who this is you could use initials. We have so many posters here who know so much about all of the locals in OB. lease:

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

When you need help you call 911.

when you need help - you call the cops.

That is exactly what shannan did. She needed help - she called the cops for help - she called 911.

She SAID they were trying to kill her.

I truly believe she was killed to shut her up - things went terribly wrong at the john's house. terribly wrong.

Fight or flight response can give you adrenaline up to 100 times the normal rate.

She fought for her life. She was hunted like prey by the predators that hired her to go out there. She was driving out there by a sex trafficker - who spent time in PRISON for sexually trafficking - internationally.

Pak was NOT like Hobson - the chauffeur in the movie Arthur - NOT AT ALL.

Shannan was found exactly at the end of where her trail ENDED. Police arrived very shortly on the scene - and they would have gone to the exact spot where she was last seen. If she was floundering and drowning and floating on that ....alleged....water - (because bodies float due to the content of oxygen in their body upon death) the police WOULD HAVE SEEN HER.

the police did SEARCH for her repeatedly -
they did not find her.

she did NOT drown in that marsh - she was killed.

that terrain that she was found in - was impossible to maneurver in daytime with nasa spacesuits on to protect your skin. there is no way she ran thru there at DAWN. NO WAY.

shannan was killed. she was removed from the location - becuase the police did search for her - with dogs. she was not found. the police were lead to her last steps - and they did not find her.

she was killed - and taken away out of oak beach.

 

[PAXIMUS]

When you need help you call 911.

when you need help - you call the cops.

That is exactly what shannan did. She needed help - she called the cops for help - she called 911.

She SAID they were trying to kill her.

I truly believe she was killed to shut her up - things went terribly wrong at the john's house. terribly wrong.

Fight or flight response can give you adrenaline up to 100 times the normal rate.

She fought for her life. She was hunted like prey by the predators that hired her to go out there. She was driving out there by a sex trafficker - who spent time in PRISON for sexually trafficking - internationally.

Pak was NOT like Hobson - the chauffeur in the movie Arthur - NOT AT ALL.

Shannan was found exactly at the end of where her trail ENDED. Police arrived very shortly on the scene - and they would have gone to the exact spot where she was last seen. If she was floundering and drowning and floating on that ....alleged....water - (because bodies float due to the content of oxygen in their body upon death) the police WOULD HAVE SEEN HER.

the police did SEARCH for her repeatedly -
they did not find her.

she did NOT drown in that marsh - she was killed.

that terrain that she was found in - was impossible to maneurver in daytime with nasa spacesuits on to protect your skin. there is no way she ran thru there at DAWN. NO WAY.

shannan was killed. she was removed from the location - becuase the police did search for her - with dogs. she was not found. the police were lead to her last steps - and they did not find her.

she was killed - and taken away out of oak beach.

What is the source for her saying "they are trying to kill me?" That doesnt appear to be on the 9-11 call according to that detective, or maybe I misread. I dont know, I thought the source of that was Mr Coletti whom some here have called a liar and accused of being involved in a cover-up?


I think we need to nail down a source for that statement because it is bandied about a lot around here and I have never seen a real source as to where that came from.


I am NOT saying it is not on the 9-11 call, I am saying I dont know, from what I recall the detective who listened to the call seemed to imply she did not say that. So if that is the case, where did the rumor start?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I need to point out one important fact: It is a misconception that when a person is drowning it is visually obvious and audible. Drownings are silent. When a person is drowning, and still near the surface, usually the head is low with the mouth at water level. The arms are beneath the water...not flailing about above the surface. I was a lifeguard for over 10 years so I speak from experience.

Mario Vittone
Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning
By Mario on May 3, 2010
http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

If LE was looking for Shannan as she was drowning (If she was drowning), LE might not have been able to spot her or hear her.

Another thing, If Shannan did drown, her body wouldn't of appeared on the surface of the water until a few hours later. When a person dies from a drowning, the body sinks first. It take a few hours (I can't remember how long off the top of my head) for gasses to accumulate within the deceased body to enable it to surface and float on the water.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I need to point out one important fact: It is a misconception that when a person is drowning it is visually obvious and audible. Drownings are silent. When a person is drowning, and still near the surface, usually the head is low with the mouth at water level. The arms are beneath the water...not flailing about above the surface. I was a lifeguard for over 10 years so I speak from experience.

Mario Vittone
Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning
By Mario on May 3, 2010
http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

Good point, I think a drowning is remote, I think she was all cut up from that bramble, freezing from the water and mud she got stuck in and curled up under a bush and died of hypothermia which would set in very fast in someone who is possibly using cocaine or other stimulants, running around in a panic sweaty and wet and possibly injured, IMO that seems to be the most logical conclusion to make at this time given the evidence we have, if more evidence emerges then this discussion should be revisted and foul play reconsidered.

 

[still]

Totally agree. May have to fan it out a bit in distance but maybe sk has a connection to several places not far from Oak Beach. The old "it is the victim's fault " is so on the point. Great point about the conflicted interpretation of the phone call being calm and the victim who made the call running for her life.

 

[nugzter]

What is the source for her saying "they are trying to kill me?" That doesnt appear to be on the 9-11 call according to that detective, or maybe I misread. I dont know, I thought the source of that was Mr Coletti whom some here have called a liar and accused of being involved in a cover-up?


I think we need to nail down a source for that statement because it is bandied about a lot around here and I have never seen a real source as to where that came from.


I am NOT saying it is not on the 9-11 call, I am saying I dont know, from what I recall the detective who listened to the call seemed to imply she did not say that. So if that is the case, where did the rumor start?

I have only read about it from MG and GC. So far as far as I can remember, LE have not mentioned her screaming "Help Me, Help Me". I just watched the channel 4/AE rip off again and LE made no mention of it there either. I wish they would just release a transcript of the 911 call. That would give the public some sort of idea of what was going on that night.
To you Law buffs. Can JB and MP have the 911 call release blocked by a lawyer? I have read that NY has some wierd laws about 911 calls and privacy issues. Can anyone explain what those laws are.....?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

The police had ONE YEAR AND A HALF OF NOTHING
absolutely NOTHING
no body - no nothing.

and then - the day AFTER the A&E documentary for TWO HOURS on shannan and suffolk police's PALTRY professionalism on this case - they made a over the top - drama soap opera - dramatic staged search for shannan with press helicopters covering the case - from the air - because they were denied access to photograph the police searching for shannan.

ONE YEAR and A HALF of NOTHING - turns into an IMMEDIATE find of her belongings and her body - in EXACTLY THE LAST SPOT that she was seen alive. RIGHT there. oh what a surprize -

Neighbors called 911 - to say they heard her screaming into the phone "they're trying to kill me"

shannan clung to her phone for the whole 23 minute phone call - never separating from that phone - that was her life line to the police.

how did the call end? she was killed.

sex trafficking is the number ONE money making crime in america. NUMBER ONE.
she was trafficked and she was killed to shut her up so she could not tell the public what was going on in that party.

There have been 11 dead bodies (and/or dismembered parts of bodies) in a 3 mile stretch along gilgo beach. Shannan being ONE of those 11.

All the bodies were placed within one hundred feet from the ocean parkway.

the ONLY reason suffolk county pd looked for her - in dec. 2011 is because of the A&E special totally embarassing the entire police's involvement ( or rather lack of professional involvement) IN THIS CASE.

They had to save their face.

There is a serial killer out there in long island enjoying killing defenseless and harmless sex workers. He is a psychotic and ruthless very dangerous man - as he blends into society - as easily as he breathes.

WHO BENEFITTED FROM SHANNAN's DEATH? what was it she was going to expose - that she had to be killed for?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I have only read about it from MG and GC. So far as far as I can remember, LE have not mentioned her screaming "Help Me, Help Me". I just watched the channel 4/AE rip off again and LE made no mention of it there either. I wish they would just release a transcript of the 911 call. That would give the public some sort of idea of what was going on that night.
To you Law buffs. Can JB and MP have the 911 call release blocked by a lawyer? I have read that NY has some wierd laws about 911 calls and privacy issues. Can anyone explain what those laws are.....?

So in otherwords it is a rumor that she said "they are trying to kill me" and there is no source for it.

Interesting.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I have only read about it from MG and GC. So far as far as I can remember, LE have not mentioned her screaming "Help Me, Help Me". I just watched the channel 4/AE rip off again and LE made no mention of it there either. I wish they would just release a transcript of the 911 call. That would give the public some sort of idea of what was going on that night.
To you Law buffs. Can JB and MP have the 911 call release blocked by a lawyer? I have read that NY has some wierd laws about 911 calls and privacy issues. Can anyone explain what those laws are.....?

Somewhere in this forum, Seaslug posted some info about 911 calls and why they aren't released to the public. There might of been a link too.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Totally agree. May have to fan it out a bit in distance but maybe sk has a connection to several places not far from Oak Beach. The old "it is the victim's fault " is so on the point. Great point about the conflicted interpretation of the phone call being calm and the victim who made the call running for her life.

Please explain to me where anyone has "blamed the victim." Some of are suggesting THAT SHE MAY NOT BE A VICTIM and she DIED ACCIDENTLY, that is NOT blaming the victim because she is not a victim, the death was accidental.


Now if there was evidence of a murder and I said "well its her own fault she got herself killed" THAT would be blaming the victim, NOBODY that I am aware of here has said that so lets stop with the innuendo please there is nobody here blaming the victim. We dont even know if we have a victim yet and for some of you to continue to suggest that a victim is being blamed is a straw man, youre setting up a nice little straw man for yourself and it is simply not true.

 

[nugzter]

So in otherwords it is a rumor that she said "they are trying to kill me" and there is no source for it.

Interesting.

Let me add. I just saw this when I re- re watched the MP portion. He said, SG told the cops, "They are trying to kill me" and he thought SG was trying to set him up so he left JB's house. Only to later drive around to look for her. So the only source of the statement is the somewhat dodgy MP, GC and MG. But like I said before nothing from LE.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Let me add. I just saw this when I re- re watched the MP portion. He said, SG told the cops, "They are trying to kill me" and he thought SG was trying to set him up so he left JB's house. Only to later drive around to look for her. So the only source of the statement is the somewhat dodgy MP, GC and MG. But like I said before nothing from LE.

This is notable and important, perhaps the most important post in this entire LISK forum. That rumor has spread far and wide and become a fact.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I need to point out one important fact: It is a misconception that when a person is drowning it is visually obvious and audible. Drownings are silent. When a person is drowning, and still near the surface, usually the head is low with the mouth at water level. The arms are beneath the water...not flailing about above the surface. I was a lifeguard for over 10 years so I speak from experience.

Mario Vittone
Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning
By Mario on May 3, 2010
http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

If LE was looking for Shannan as she was drowning (If she was drowning), LE might not have been able to spot her or hear her.

Another thing, If Shannan did drown, her body wouldn't of appeared on the surface of the water until a few hours later. When a person dies from a drowning, the body sinks first. It take a few hours (I can't remember how long off the top of my head) for gasses to accumulate within the deceased body to enable it to surface and float on the water.

Sorry to quote myself. Here is a link to information about how long it takes for a body to float after a drowning:

BODY FLOAT INFORMATION
This information was complied by members John Sanders, Dr. John Whittington,
and Mark Williams of the National Underwater Rescue-Recovery Institute and
should only be used for estimating when a body should float.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...ZwpqRm&sig=AHIEtbTMRlB6Q9q76qR-UowScXYB8i3bJw

**I was wrong when I said it takes a few hours for a body to surface and float after a drowning. It takes a few Days - from 1 to 20 Days - depending on the temperature of the water and other variables.

 

[Redbird]

Although the Schwartz Report falls in the category of rumour, it is interesting cop gossip and I believe it was mentioned that the dispatch operator said Shannan was screaming, and incoherant and saying they were trying to kill her before the call stopped (when her mother says she was pulled into a vehicle that sounded like a truck). According to various posters in that forum the scene was secured by one unit until the shift change at nine o-clock. A different story than the detective tells. I have heard a lot of talk about Suffolk Co. LE corruption in articles and comments in the local papers. All the detectives letter tells me is this is probably very true. IMHO. The final report listed the whole affair as "a disturbance." GC said in one video that it was August before they even questioned him. IMO the detective's letter is nothing but spin, and apparently a lot of people are suddenly buying it. This amazes me.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Although the Schwartz Report falls in the category of rumour, it is interesting cop gossip and I believe it was mentioned that the dispatch operator said Shannan was screaming, and incoherant and saying they were trying to kill her before the call stopped (when her mother says she was pulled into a vehicle that sounded like a truck). According to various posters in that forum the scene was secured by one unit until the shift change at nine o-clock. A different story than the detective tells. I have heard a lot of talk about Suffolk Co. LE corruption in articles and comments in the local papers. All the detectives letter tells me is this is probably very true. IMHO. The final report listed the whole affair as "a disturbance." GC said in one video that it was August before they even questioned him. IMO the detective's letter is nothing but spin, and apparently a lot of people are suddenly buying it. This amazes me.

What is even more amazing is the willingness of some to outright point fingers at others and call them a serial killer when there is ZERO evidence to support such an accusation.


I am just not willing to do that, it is a serious matter to accuse someone of murder and I need some pretty good evidence before I will go there.

While I generally do not trust law enforcement much I see no reason at this time to assume they are involved in a cover up wrt to this case, if I see some evidence of that you will find no one on here who will speak out louder against that sort of filth than I will, in fact it is what I do for a living there is nothing more we in the criminal defense profession hate more than police corruption, perhaps only false accusations are worse.

 

[nugzter]

Here is the only refrence I can find from LE about SG's state of mind that night.
"“You know, that’s explainable because she’s hysterical,” said Dormer. “We know that and she’s discarding her possessions as she moves along. Her jeans could have come off moving in that environment. We’ve looked at this very carefully and that is a possibility, that the jeans came off and she kept running, kept running towards the lights. Obviously, she was disturbed that night.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12...bert-gilgo-beach-murders-on-48-hours-mystery/


No mention of what she said.
So lets try and put this into prospective. She is "hysterical". Is that during the 911 call? Ok, probably. The 911 dispatcher had 23 mins with her on the phone. She was unable to give the dispatcher a location so 911 was unable to send a unit until GC called. These 911 dispatchers are pros at calming people down so that they can get info.
My 1st theory on the duration of the 911 call is that SG only actually spoke to the operator for just a few mins. The rest of the time was her running with out hanging up the phone. It is possible that the phone was "on the hook" while she was GC's house.


2nd theory is that she stayed on the phone and "was" actually calmed down some what until JB and MP tried to get her into MP's car and she freaked again and took off towards GC's house. But this is based on speculation about 2 male voices being heard on the 911 call. But no info on that has been released by LE.

So until the 911 call is released or a valid member of the press is aloud to hear it and give detailed info about with the blessing of LE. All we have to go on is Dormers statement that she was "hysterical". That is it. The rest is speculation.
Just MOO.....