Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[PAXIMUS]

Here is the only refrence I can find from LE about SG's state of mind that night.
"“You know, that’s explainable because she’s hysterical,” said Dormer. “We know that and she’s discarding her possessions as she moves along. Her jeans could have come off moving in that environment. We’ve looked at this very carefully and that is a possibility, that the jeans came off and she kept running, kept running towards the lights. Obviously, she was disturbed that night.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/12...bert-gilgo-beach-murders-on-48-hours-mystery/


No mention of what she said.
So lets try and put this into prospective. She is "hysterical". Is that during the 911 call? Ok, probably. The 911 dispatcher had 23 mins with her on the phone. She was unable to give the dispatcher a location so 911 was unable to send a unit until GC called. These 911 dispatchers are pros at calming people down so that they can get info.
My 1st theory on the duration of the 911 call is that SG only actually spoke to the operator for just a few mins. The rest of the time was her running with out hanging up the phone. It is possible that the phone was "on the hook" while she was GC's house.


2nd theory is that she stayed on the phone and "was" actually calmed down some what until JB and MP tried to get her into MP's car and she freaked again and took off towards GC's house. But this is based on speculation about 2 male voices being heard on the 911 call. But no info on that has been released by LE.

So until the 911 call is released or a valid member of the press is aloud to hear it and give detailed info about with the blessing of LE. All we have to go on is Dormers statement that she was "hysterical". That is it. The rest is speculation.
Just MOO.....

Good work my friend I am glad youre trying to get to the bottom of this, it is very important we nail this down, crucial in fact.

 

[Redbird]

The detective said in his letter he heard the 911 call and she was calm. Isn't he "LE"? Isn't Newday MSM? He said he heard the 911 call. Is this speculation?

 

[nugzter]

The detective said in his letter he heard the 911 call and she was calm. Isn't he "LE"? Isn't Newday MSM? He said he heard the 911 call. Is this speculation?

I have not read that report. I have "read it was mentioned but the posts I read had no link. So if you can point me in the right direction where I can find that interview, that would rock. :rocker:
That would totaly contradict what Dormer was quoted as saying that SG was in "hysterics" (see above posts for the link).
Does the article mention the name of the source? Or was it one of those, "detective close to the investigation" things?

 

[otto]

She seemed to be running, moving in a direction consistent with where she was found ... then she vanished. Wasn't she was found across the marsh ... apparently there are paths that are only accessible in certain seasons. When she was there, was there water or paths in the area. Wasn't she found near the freeway ... it seemed unusual that she was so close to finding her way home and then, after walking through the marsh, she was found on the side of the road?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I have not read that report. I have "read it was mentioned but the posts I read had no link. So if you can point me in the right direction where I can find that interview, that would rock. :rocker:
That would totaly contradict what Dormer was quoted as saying that SG was in "hysterics" (see above posts for the link).
Does the article mention the name of the source? Or was it one of those, "detective close to the investigation" things?

Here is the link:

Newsday
Letter: All-out effort for Shannan
Published: January 23, 2012
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-all-out-effort-for-shannan-1.3473520

"In the house at Oak Beach, Gilbert was not about to be murdered. Her demeanor on the tape was calm. You can hear male voices on the tape, and they are calm. At no time during this call was she desperate. From what I heard on the call, Gilbert was not speaking as if she were in danger. Despite this, she decided to run from the house and her driver, whom she relied on to take her back to New Jersey. During the investigation, I interviewed an individual who drove Gilbert to her "dates" in the past. He said she would leave houses and apartments in the same fashion as she did in Oak Beach. He described her as being a paranoid person and at times acting irrationally."

 

[Redbird]

I have not read that report. I have "read it was mentioned but the posts I read had no link. So if you can point me in the right direction where I can find that interview, that would rock. :rocker:
That would totaly contradict what Dormer was quoted as saying that SG was in "hysterics" (see above posts for the link).
Does the article mention the name of the source? Or was it one of those, "detective close to the investigation" things?

You can find his entire letter above posted by Victor 1/25/12 #56 on the thread titled NY-LI- MSM and Timeline Here NO DISCUSSION. Sorry I don't know how to do one of those single post things. :seeya:

 

[PAXIMUS]

I have not read that report. I have "read it was mentioned but the posts I read had no link. So if you can point me in the right direction where I can find that interview, that would rock. :rocker:
That would totaly contradict what Dormer was quoted as saying that SG was in "hysterics" (see above posts for the link).
Does the article mention the name of the source? Or was it one of those, "detective close to the investigation" things?

I think SG called 9-11 TWO TIMES didnt she, ONCE INSIDE JBs house, which it has been reported she was CALM and then ANOTHER CALL when she was OUTSIDE and seemingly HYSTERICAL?

Am I right or did I misread, please correct me if I am wrong, not one to spread a rumor.

 

[nugzter]

Here is the link:

Newsday
Letter: All-out effort for Shannan
Published: January 23, 2012
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-all-out-effort-for-shannan-1.3473520

"In the house at Oak Beach, Gilbert was not about to be murdered. Her demeanor on the tape was calm. You can hear male voices on the tape, and they are calm. At no time during this call was she desperate. From what I heard on the call, Gilbert was not speaking as if she were in danger. Despite this, she decided to run from the house and her driver, whom she relied on to take her back to New Jersey. During the investigation, I interviewed an individual who drove Gilbert to her "dates" in the past. He said she would leave houses and apartments in the same fashion as she did in Oak Beach. He described her as being a paranoid person and at times acting irrationally."

That is an intresting read. So that sort of nails it home. So then the only 3 sources of the supposed panic MG, GC and MP. I noticed he said she was in no was in danger. So this should be the nail in the coffin for the 911 call. Like you said it is LE and MSM. Now if only the chief would comment on this letter, we can have it closed for good. Thanks for the link.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I dont think its a contradiction for the one detective to say she was calm, THIS IS WHEN SHE WAS STILL IN THE HOUSE she would have acted calm so as not to draw attention to herself, THEN SHE FLEES the house, PERHAPS STILL ON THE LINE WITH 9-11, starting to panic and become hysterical as she is running around, leading Dormer to say she was in hysterics, there is no contradiction here makes perfect sense and it would, IMO be the behavior of someone who is bipolar and perhaps self medicating with illicit street drugs, PAK after all has reportedly told police she acted that way many other times, leaving other people's homes in the same fashion with no explanation or reason for such behavior, she then flees the house and runs towards what she thinks is a way out, ending up in the marsh, finding herself in water and muck, cold, freezing in fact, cut up from the bramble, she finally collapses and expires shortly thereafter as a result of hypothermia.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

That is an intresting read. So that sort of nails it home. So then the only 3 sources of the supposed panic MG, GC and MP. I noticed he said she was in no was in danger. So this should be the nail in the coffin for the 911 call. Like you said it is LE and MSM. Now if only the chief would comment on this letter, we can have it closed for good. Thanks for the link.

Personally, I have no reason to doubt GC.

JB said that Shannan was acting erratically.

'Gilbert became upset, since "she saw things weren’t going as she had hoped," and acted in an "erratic" way, Brewer said. '

NJ.com
Jersey City prostitute still missing after 13 months of search
Sunday, June 12, 2011
By Amy Brittain/The Star-Ledger
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I dont think its a contradiction for the one detective to say she was calm, THIS IS WHEN SHE WAS STILL IN THE HOUSE she would have acted calm so as not to draw attention to herself, THEN SHE FLEES the house, PERHAPS STILL ON THE LINE WITH 9-11, starting to panic and become hysterical as she is running around, leading Dormer to say she was in hysterics, there is no contradiction here makes perfect sense and it would, IMO be the behavior of someone who is bipolar and perhaps self medicating with illicit street drugs, PAK after all has reportedly told police she acted that way many other times, leaving other people's homes in the same fashion with no explanation or reason for such behavior, she then flees the house and runs towards what she thinks is a way out, ending up in the marsh, finding herself in water and muck, cold, freezing in fact, cut up from the bramble, she finally collapses and expires shortly thereafter as a result of hypothermia.

Yes, what you stated could be one possibility. Personally, I'm still on the fence. There are some good arguments for hypothermia, drowning and foul play, IMHO. We need that ME's report.

 

[nugzter]

I dont think its a contradiction for the one detective to say she was calm, THIS IS WHEN SHE WAS STILL IN THE HOUSE she would have acted calm so as not to draw attention to herself, THEN SHE FLEES the house, PERHAPS STILL ON THE LINE WITH 9-11, starting to panic and become hysterical as she is running around, leading Dormer to say she was in hysterics, there is no contradiction here makes perfect sense and it would, IMO be the behavior of someone who is bipolar and perhaps self medicating with illicit street drugs, PAK after all has reportedly told police she acted that way many other times, leaving other people's homes in the same fashion with no explanation or reason for such behavior, she then flees the house and runs towards what she thinks is a way out, ending up in the marsh, finding herself in water and muck, cold, freezing in fact, cut up from the bramble, she finally collapses and expires shortly thereafter as a result of hypothermia.

That makes perfect sense. MP said in the A&E show, when JB put is hands on her she flipped out. The way they cut the show is a little misleading tho. I would like to hear his interview in one piece. I am not going to speculate on how things went down. But what you said makes sense.
BTW, Hypothermia. Yall remember a few months ago when that crazy dude shot and killed the park ranger in Washington State?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-benjamin-barnes-riverside-ties,0,5199688.story

"An official cause of death has not been released, but it appears that Barnes died from exposure."

This was a trained soldier with combat deployments, and exposure got him. Granted it was in the 30's, but he was well trained. SG would have no chance in 50's wet and fighting the elements. Sober or under the influence, no chance.
What is funny. Here at work we have Armed Forces TV, and they have no real commercials during the breaks. So they use Army/Air Force produced info-mercials. One that comes on quite freqently is the hypothermia commercial. They say it has been know for beach goers to get hypothermia in high 80's when they are wet and the wind is blowing. They describe it as a sudden drop in body core temp.
Time for bed, it was a long night shift......

 

[the quiet girl]

Although the Schwartz Report falls in the category of rumour, it is interesting cop gossip and I believe it was mentioned that the dispatch operator said Shannan was screaming, and incoherant and saying they were trying to kill her before the call stopped (when her mother says she was pulled into a vehicle that sounded like a truck). According to various posters in that forum the scene was secured by one unit until the shift change at nine o-clock. A different story than the detective tells. I have heard a lot of talk about Suffolk Co. LE corruption in articles and comments in the local papers. All the detectives letter tells me is this is probably very true. IMHO. The final report listed the whole affair as "a disturbance." GC said in one video that it was August before they even questioned him. IMO the detective's letter is nothing but spin, and apparently a lot of people are suddenly buying it. This amazes me.

I could not agree more.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

it is all spin - if it comes from LE. Dormer has said again and again and again in the press that she was acting inappropriate - running around hysterically - and acting in accordance with acting hysterically and inappropriate - shannan found it APPROPRIATE to take her jean off - and throw her LIFELINE AWAY (her phone) and run thru a marsh - that you couldnt see a piece of white paper in front of your face - but yet - shannan ran thru it - BAREFOOT (ahem!!!! cough cough am rolling my eyes)

and then.....this scpd detective writes an EXACT opposite letter that she was cool, calm and collect and - well oh heavy sigh - rather LONELY and called the 911 operator for COMPANIONSHIP...on a dark lonely night out in oak beach.

give me a break. don't you know spin when you see it?

 

[truthspider]

So in otherwords it is a rumor that she said "they are trying to kill me" and there is no source for it.

Interesting.

On camera Pak stated that she said "you guys are trying to kill me".
I think Pak is telling the truth with that statement, he would know better than to lie on national tv, after being interrogated by LE and having his statements corroborated by the 911 call.

It is verified, but I don't think Pak was trying to kill anyone, nor do I think his bringing an illegal into the country can or should be viewed as sex trafficking. That statement is slanderous. You can't go around calling every illegal alien in this country a sex worker and anyone that helped bring them here a sex trafficker, that is extremely ignorant and irresponsible. (I'm not saying you said that PAX)

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

This is notable and important, perhaps the most important post in this entire LISK forum. That rumor has spread far and wide and become a fact.

Paximus - this is not the LISK page - this is web sleuths.

You have four sex workers that were "hired" through CraigsList. Sex Workers - or girls that were victims of being sexually trafficked - actually - the facts are - that it was both - sex workers being sexually trafficked. they all ended up just under a hundred feet off of ocean parkway.

You have six other bodies of sex workers - all found in a different stage of decomposition - some dismembered - in a very desolate area BURIED - in a REALLY desolate area - you have to want to go there. It was a dumping ground.

And then you have Shannan Gilbert - another sex worker "hired" from Craig's List - found dead - just under a hundred feet from Ocean Parkway - within the compounds of where she was last seen running and screaming for her life. Yes - screaming for her life. Screaming bloody hell.

Serial Killers have a tendency to specialize in type of victim -
the victims here are sex workers. Serial killers have a particular type of victim that they kill - shannan was a sex worker -
she was killed - she is part of the long island serial killer case.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

the police can put any spin they want on this case.

the facts of the matter are - that MONEY can COVER UP CRIMES. MONEY TALKS. you have a very monied community - VERY MONIED - millionaires live behind that gated community - in oak beach.

Money can cover up crimes. Money can wash away sins.

 

[truthspider]

She fought for her life. She was hunted like prey by the predators that hired her to go out there. She was driving out there by a sex trafficker - who spent time in PRISON for sexually trafficking - internationally.

Pak was NOT like Hobson - the chauffeur in the movie Arthur - NOT AT ALL.
f

TKM, this is false. He was never convicted of sex trafficking. There is a huge difference, and your statement is dangerous. He may be guilty of being involved in prostitution, but international sex trafficking isn't the same thing.

 

[SoSueMe]

Obviously we need a link to the prison record for sex trafficking. If one isn't provided, this information will be removed.

 

[truthspider]

Paximus - this is not the LISK page - this is web sleuths.

You have four sex workers that were "hired" through CraigsList. Sex Workers - or girls that were victims of being sexually trafficked - actually - the facts are - that it was both - sex workers being sexually trafficked. they all ended up just under a hundred feet off of ocean parkway.

You have six other bodies of sex workers - all found in a different stage of decomposition - some dismembered - in a very desolate area BURIED - in a REALLY desolate area - you have to want to go there. It was a dumping ground.

And then you have Shannan Gilbert - another sex worker "hired" from Craig's List - found dead - just under a hundred feet from Ocean Parkway - within the compounds of where she was last seen running and screaming for her life. Yes - screaming for her life. Screaming bloody hell.

Serial Killers have a tendency to specialize in type of victim -
the victims here are sex workers. Serial killers have a particular type of victim that they kill - shannan was a sex worker -
she was killed - she is part of the long island serial killer case.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

the police can put any spin they want on this case.

the facts of the matter are - that MONEY can COVER UP CRIMES. MONEY TALKS. you have a very monied community - VERY MONIED - millionaires live behind that gated community - in oak beach.

Money can cover up crimes. Money can wash away sins.

Yes you have millionaires, you also have laid off financial advisors, you also have doctors who declared bankruptcy.

You also have LE who may want to "cover up" the truth, until they can get their man, and so that they can catch their man. That is the only cover up I think is happening. If the public or media knew everything LE knew, the whole investigation would be blown, you would never be able to catch let alone convict the SK if the whole world knows who he is.

Also, TKM, you are grounded enough not to believe the hogwash that is spread by LE for the purpose of their investigation. Not everybody can see that, some of them will always believe that SG was scared to death by the 10+ ghosts of sex workers past.

The one person we should all be interested in is the NON-LE person in this world who is trying to convince everyone of the same hogwash as LE. That NON-LE person isn't actually investigating anything, he is trying to spin a web of lies over your eyes but his behavior has become transparent in the process. His motive is clearly to convince everyone there is no SK on jones island. Those who can see through the web of lies know the truth. LE knows, people close know, I know, at this point he is merely "a #@#$ing rat in a maze".

 

[PAXIMUS]

Paximus - this is not the LISK page - this is web sleuths.

You have four sex workers that were "hired" through CraigsList. Sex Workers - or girls that were victims of being sexually trafficked - actually - the facts are - that it was both - sex workers being sexually trafficked. they all ended up just under a hundred feet off of ocean parkway.

You have six other bodies of sex workers - all found in a different stage of decomposition - some dismembered - in a very desolate area BURIED - in a REALLY desolate area - you have to want to go there. It was a dumping ground.

And then you have Shannan Gilbert - another sex worker "hired" from Craig's List - found dead - just under a hundred feet from Ocean Parkway - within the compounds of where she was last seen running and screaming for her life. Yes - screaming for her life. Screaming bloody hell.

Serial Killers have a tendency to specialize in type of victim -
the victims here are sex workers. Serial killers have a particular type of victim that they kill - shannan was a sex worker -
she was killed - she is part of the long island serial killer case.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

the police can put any spin they want on this case.

the facts of the matter are - that MONEY can COVER UP CRIMES. MONEY TALKS. you have a very monied community - VERY MONIED - millionaires live behind that gated community - in oak beach.

Money can cover up crimes. Money can wash away sins.

Uh yea I know it is websleuths we are in the "long island serial killer" sub forum of websleuths, hence my comment. I didnt say lisk site.