Sheehan Arrested at Whitehouse

[Marthatex]

And what about his father? Does he have no say simply because he didn't squirt the child from his belly? Placing more value on a relative simply because they have a womb and carried the child for 9 months is beyond silly, given the fact that the state has to step in to so many situations where birth mothes are clearly not operating in the best interest of their children.

Obviously you have not given birth.

A father is just as important as a mother, unless they're a "deadbeat" father.

But Cindy is the mother and she has the right to protest if she wanted to. She doesn't have the right to break the law. But she's "crashing and burning", so I don't know why anyone should even care anymore what she does.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

The decision to go to war should have nothing to do with who's in our army and whether they volunteered or not.

Colin Powell got up and delivered a speech to the U.N. that unknowingly to him was filled with falsehoods. We should not have gone to war. Period.

You just don't get it.
Open a history book. Read about stuff that happened before the Viet Nam War, since that seems to be the only touchstone you and the other protestors have. Read beyind the Second World War, for that matter. Read about OTHER countries wars.
We are in our Hundred Year War.
We have been in it for approximately 25/30 years now, although we have only been aware of the fact as a people sicne 9/11/2001.
It started when we didn't back the Shah of Iran and allowed him to be deposed and replaced by the Ayatollah.
If history is anything to go by, we will be in it for another 60-75 years. It will end with either a gradually modernized Middle East with democratic, secular governments or a balkanized America. Perhaps both.
It disturbs me that our country's political parties have dissolved into do-nothing senates/congresses that spend all their time in partisan bickering & character assassination instead of coming up with much needed legislature to fix various economic and social problems,regardless of who is in office. The resemblance to the French Assembly leading up to the Terror is exceptionally unnerving. And since that's where we got all this divisive "Left"/"Right" B.S. in the first place, it pays to take notice of such similiarities.
We have become spoiled, soft and stupid. We think neither weather patterns or anything else that inconvenciences us is our "right" as Americans. We think everything is to be handed to us. This is Baby Boomer thinking, born of wealth and isolation, wheher you're living in a commune funded by trust funds or a gated gold community. Neither Right nor Left seems to believe that it should be held accountable for its decisions. But what bugs me the most is the Left's inability to acknowledge its as rigid in its thinking and predictable in its responses as the Right.

 

[jannuncutt]

And what about his father? Does he have no say simply because he didn't squirt the child from his belly? Placing more value on a relative simply because they have a womb and carried the child for 9 months is beyond silly, given the fact that the state has to step in to so many situations where birth mothes are clearly not operating in the best interest of their children.

I was simply responding to the Sheehan Family Statement, which you posted, and your subsequent comment. That statement was submitted by the grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins - not the father of Cindy's son. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, however, under normal circumstances, nothing can compare to a mother's love. Also, I find your statement regarding the birthing process to be quite crude, Billy.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

But she's "crashing and burning", so I don't know why anyone should even care anymore what she does.

I refer you to the title of this thread. You're not being forced to participate in this topic, Martha. So maybe you should allow those of us who want to talk about it do so.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I was simply responding to the Sheehan Family Statement, which you posted, and your subsequent comment. That statement was submitted by the grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins - not the father of Cindy's son. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, however, under normal circumstances, nothing can compare to a mother's love. Also, I find your statement regarding the birthing process to be quite crude, Billy.

Mr. Sheehan is (or did) divorce Cindy, so I think its a safe bet to say that he doesn't support what she's doing and he supports the war effort. He's not, however, making a spectacle of himself. Does that mean his opinion matters less than hers? Of course not. Takes two to make a baby. She's not the only one who suffered a loss, but she continues to drag her family through all the drama. Very selfish if you ask me.

 

[jannuncutt]

Mr. Sheehan is (or did) divorce Cindy, so I think its a safe bet to say that he doesn't support what she's doing and he supports the war effort. He's not, however, making a spectacle of himself. Does that mean his opinion matters less than hers? Of course not. Takes two to make a baby. She's not the only one who suffered a loss, but she continues to drag her family through all the drama. Very selfish if you ask me.

I was responding specifically to the family statement!

 

[Marthatex]

I refer you to the title of this thread. You're not being forced to participate in this topic, Martha. So maybe you should allow those of us who want to talk about it do so.

Was this really necessary? Just who is disallowing whom's comments?

The implication is that I am not "allowing" others to speak. I was merely making a rhetorical comment and made no direct criticism of anyone.

My comments on this thread have been objective and historical in nature, as much as anyone elses.

 

[BarnGoddess]

If you read the first of the thread, (JDB) I no longer support Ms. Sheehan or her actions.

I do not believe in getting arrested on purpose unless you're trying to save an innocent person's life. Disrespect for the law only undermines credibility.

Mypoint about military decisions was in response to Gruff's intimation that there is a difference when we have a volunteer or draft army. There should be no difference at all.

I also stated later on that we can't leave Iraq now.

Shouldn't have sent troops to Bosnia? That was an example of a well-executed plan; as was the first Gulf War except we were afraid to finish the job.

Everyone missed this part of Martha's post. I guess it depends whose ox is gored. Or is it who's political party is in power?

 

[jannuncutt]

Was this really necessary? Just who is disallowing whom's comments?

The implication is that I am not "allowing" others to speak. I was merely making a rhetorical comment and made no direct criticism of anyone.

My comments on this thread have been objective and historical in nature, as much as anyone elses.

Martha, I am enjoying your comments on this thread. Geesh, we finally agree on something!

 

[Marthatex]

You just don't get it.
Open a history book. Read about stuff that happened before the Viet Nam War, since that seems to be the only touchstone you and the other protestors have. Read beyind the Second World War, for that matter. Read about OTHER countries wars.
We are in our Hundred Year War.
We have been in it for approximately 25/30 years now, although we have only been aware of the fact as a people sicne 9/11/2001.
It started when we didn't back the Shah of Iran and allowed him to be deposed and replaced by the Ayatollah.
If history is anything to go by, we will be in it for another 60-75 years. It will end with either a gradually modernized Middle East with democratic, secular governments or a balkanized America. Perhaps both.
It disturbs me that our country's political parties have dissolved into do-nothing senates/congresses that spend all their time in partisan bickering & character assassination instead of coming up with much needed legislature to fix various economic and social problems,regardless of who is in office. The resemblance to the French Assembly leading up to the Terror is exceptionally unnerving. And since that's where we got all this divisive "Left"/"Right" B.S. in the first place, it pays to take notice of such similiarities.
We have become spoiled, soft and stupid. We think neither weather patterns or anything else that inconvenciences us is our "right" as Americans. We think everything is to be handed to us. This is Baby Boomer thinking, born of wealth and isolation, wheher you're living in a commune funded by trust funds or a gated gold community. Neither Right nor Left seems to believe that it should be held accountable for its decisions. But what bugs me the most is the Left's inability to acknowledge its as rigid in its thinking and predictable in its responses as the Right.

Much of what you say may be true. Many of us are "spoiled, soft and stupid", but if that is so then why to we so highly value our ways and the United States of America? Our freedom to be spoiled? Surely our founding fathers valued education and wanted us to be frugal, with our money and our land and resources.

I doubt that many of us are totally well-read regarding world history and all wars of the past, myself included. However, I do try to keep up with current events.

I do not believe you can make the generalization that "the left", whatever that represents, is more rigid than the right. "The left" can include the "far left", or people with more centrist views. All I know is that at first I supported Ms. Sheenan; now I do not. I used to not be aware of immigration as a problem but now I feel it is. I have voted for Republican presidents as well as Democratic ones.

And for the record, I am not a "protestor"; I never demonstrated against the Viet Nam war and I am not demonstrating now. It seems you have put me under a "label", and that is pretty "rigid" to me.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Was this really necessary? Just who is disallowing whom's comments?

The implication is that I am not "allowing" others to speak. I was merely making a rhetorical comment and made no direct criticism of anyone.

My comments on this thread have been objective and historical in nature, as much as anyone elses.

You're welcome to comment - as always.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Much of what you say may be true. Many of us are "spoiled, soft and stupid", but if that is so then why to we so highly value our ways and the United States of America? Our freedom to be spoiled? Surely our founding fathers valued education and wanted us to be frugal, with our money and our land and resources.

I doubt that many of us are totally well-read regarding world history and all wars of the past, myself included. However, I do try to keep up with current events.

I do not believe you can make the generalization that "the left", whatever that represents, is more rigid than the right. "The left" can include the "far left", or people with more centrist views. All I know is that at first I supported Ms. Sheenan; now I do not. I used to not be aware of immigration as a problem but now I feel it is. I have voted for Republican presidents as well as Democratic ones.

And for the record, I am not a "protestor"; I never demonstrated against the Viet Nam war and I am not demonstrating now. It seems you have put me under a "label", and that is pretty "rigid" to me.

I didn't say MORE rigid as the Right. I said AS. But in terms of Left and Right, if you go Far Enough Left, you end up in the same crackpot area as the Far Right. Hitler was a Fascist and Pol Pot a Communist, but you couldn't tell the difference in their worldviews by the results. No one seems interested in centrist resolutions or moderation. Republics are supposed to be based on give and take, mediation, etc. I see precious little of that today, and now with Delay there will be more pointless political wranglinga nd dust-ups to excuse the fact no one in office is pushing any necessary legislature. This is why I adhere to no party affilaition. They all suck donkey balls.

 

[ember]

stay gone...alas, it is just not to be...

True. However, the threat was not from Iraq.

This is my very first post, though I have lurked a while. I had to weigh in on this one.

I would like to know how you know that the threat was not from Iraq. Do you have inside knowledge? Please do not believe everything that has been "thoroughly investigated". I work for the gov't. Trust me on this one.

Saddam was madman without a soul who slayed his own people by the thousands & already hated us for what the first Bush admin did to his dictatorship. Given the chance, he would have volleyed. It is just too bad Bush Sr. didn't have the backing that Bush Jr. has to see it through. Iraq is an absolute threat. Isn't Al-Zarqawi now Bin Laden's right hand man? Al-Qaeda in IRAQ? Behead a few innocent contractors and become the golden child to Bin Laden? Maybe Bush did jump the gun on Iraq as a son's favor, but I believe he was on the right track. A terrorist is a terrorist no matter where they call home and they HATE us and our freedom. Believe that.

The smiling Cindy Sheehan being led off by police made me ill. She IS making a mockery of her son's service. He VOLUNTEERED and loved his country. DIED for it. He knew the risks. Maybe to him, the job rewards were compensation enough. In his job there, he FREED people. People who will vote. Just like our soliders did in Afghanistan. Soon these people will vote. VOTE! I know we take it for granted, but to them...wow...it is life altering. 50% of these voters are women. Women who never had a voice before. It really is profound when you think about it. I hope the Afghan & Iraqi women use there new found rights better than one liberator's mother has. Ironic that Cindy uses the same rights given to her by men & women, like her son, who have given their lives, so that she can stand on her righteous soap box and say it is all for naught. That just disgusts me.

I'm far from a warmonger. I value life, all life. But I'm no dummy either. If we cut & run now, we empower those blood-thirsty,third-world, insane religious extremists. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want that element over here on our own soil. Americans are NOT quitters.

We have service people fighting terror all over the world, not just in Iraq. Kosovo, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan to name a few. This is not a game folks. Our guys and gals who are serving are in real danger to keep us safe.

Blessed be our service people now and all who have gone before. They need our love and support, not our criticism.

 

[Jules]

stay gone...alas, it is just not to be...

This is my very first post, though I have lurked a while. I had to weigh in on this one.

I would like to know how you know that the threat was not from Iraq. Do you have inside knowledge? Please do not believe everything that has been "thoroughly investigated". I work for the gov't. Trust me on this one.

Saddam was madman without a soul who slayed his own people by the thousands & already hated us for what the first Bush admin did to his dictatorship. Given the chance, he would have volleyed. It is just too bad Bush Sr. didn't have the backing that Bush Jr. has to see it through. Iraq is an absolute threat. Isn't Al-Zarqawi now Bin Laden's right hand man? Al-Qaeda in IRAQ? Behead a few innocent contractors and become the golden child to Bin Laden? Maybe Bush did jump the gun on Iraq as a son's favor, but I believe he was on the right track. A terrorist is a terrorist no matter where they call home and they HATE us and our freedom. Believe that.

The smiling Cindy Sheehan being led off by police made me ill. She IS making a mockery of her son's service. He VOLUNTEERED and loved his country. DIED for it. He knew the risks. Maybe to him, the job rewards were compensation enough. In his job there, he FREED people. People who will vote. Just like our soliders did in Afghanistan. Soon these people will vote. VOTE! I know we take it for granted, but to them...wow...it is life altering. 50% of these voters are women. Women who never had a voice before. It really is profound when you think about it. I hope the Afghan & Iraqi women use there new found rights better than one liberator's mother has. Ironic that Cindy uses the same rights given to her by men & women, like her son, who have given their lives, so that she can stand on her righteous soap box and say it is all for naught. That just disgusts me.

I'm far from a warmonger. I value life, all life. But I'm no dummy either. If we cut & run now, we empower those blood-thirsty,third-world, insane religious extremists. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want that element over here on our own soil. Americans are NOT quitters.

We have service people fighting terror all over the world, not just in Iraq. Kosovo, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan to name a few. This is not a game folks. Our guys and gals who are serving are in real danger to keep us safe.

Blessed be our service people now and all who have gone before. They need our love and support, not our criticism.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

What a fantastic first post and welcome to the board!

 

[ember]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

What a fantastic first post and welcome to the board!

Thank you Jules :blowkiss: . Glad to be here.

I am very passionate about this issue. My father was a Vietnam Vet. My grandfather was a WWII POW, captured at the Battle of the Bulge. Both would say that everyone should have the opportunity to be free.

Both would also decry Cindy Sheehan's actions as traitorous to her son's legacy. I feel that she is grieving and I am so sorry for her loss. Being a mother myself, I can't even begin to imagine, but she really needs to find another outlet and quit making a propaganda wagon out of herself. Enough about that though. I've ranted long enough, lol.

Thanks again for welcoming me. I look forward to many more posts on WS!

 

[JBean]

Thank you Jules :blowkiss: . Glad to be here.

I am very passionate about this issue. My father was a Vietnam Vet. My grandfather was a WWII POW, captured at the Battle of the Bulge. Both would say that everyone should have the opportunity to be free.

Both would also decry Cindy Sheehan's actions as traitorous to her son's legacy. I feel that she is grieving and I am so sorry for her loss. Being a mother myself, I can't even begin to imagine, but she really needs to find another outlet and quit making a propaganda wagon out of herself. Enough about that though. I've ranted long enough, lol.

Thanks again for welcoming me. I look forward to many more posts on WS!

welcome ember..great posts.

 

[Jules]

Thank you Jules :blowkiss: . Glad to be here.

I am very passionate about this issue. My father was a Vietnam Vet. My grandfather was a WWII POW, captured at the Battle of the Bulge. Both would say that everyone should have the opportunity to be free.

Both would also decry Cindy Sheehan's actions as traitorous to her son's legacy. I feel that she is grieving and I am so sorry for her loss. Being a mother myself, I can't even begin to imagine, but she really needs to find another outlet and quit making a propaganda wagon out of herself. Enough about that though. I've ranted long enough, lol.

Thanks again for welcoming me. I look forward to many more posts on WS!

Most welcome. Look forward to seeing you around. :blowkiss:

 

[ember]

welcome ember..great posts.

Thanks to you too JBean! Again, glad to be here. Love WS!
Here's :blowkiss: for you too!

 

[Nova]

Although I don't like being in this war, I really feel that Saddam Hussein was a threat to our country and the free world, not to mention his own people. I am glad that we were on the offensive rather than the defensive. We will never know how many lives that we saved by acting first.

I just hope that it will not turn out to be another Vietnam. The world cannot afford for that to happen.

As far as we know, we haven't saved ONE life by invading Iraq.

But we know we've lost uncounted tens of thousands of lives.

What sort of logic is it that justifies tens of thousands of deaths on the ground that something might have happened? And calls a mother crazy because she protests the very real death of her son and others based on false pretenses and dubious intentions?

Yes, our soldiers today volunteer to serve and they are to be honored all the more for joining of their own volition. But that doesn't mean their service and sacrifice are to be spent cheaply by unscrupulous politicans - or by citizens who value our soldiers so lightly as to spend the lives of volunteers on "might," "perhaps" and "maybe."

 

[jannuncutt]

stay gone...alas, it is just not to be...

This is my very first post, though I have lurked a while. I had to weigh in on this one.

I would like to know how you know that the threat was not from Iraq. Do you have inside knowledge? Please do not believe everything that has been "thoroughly investigated". I work for the gov't. Trust me on this one.

Saddam was madman without a soul who slayed his own people by the thousands & already hated us for what the first Bush admin did to his dictatorship. Given the chance, he would have volleyed. It is just too bad Bush Sr. didn't have the backing that Bush Jr. has to see it through. Iraq is an absolute threat. Isn't Al-Zarqawi now Bin Laden's right hand man? Al-Qaeda in IRAQ? Behead a few innocent contractors and become the golden child to Bin Laden? Maybe Bush did jump the gun on Iraq as a son's favor, but I believe he was on the right track. A terrorist is a terrorist no matter where they call home and they HATE us and our freedom. Believe that.

The smiling Cindy Sheehan being led off by police made me ill. She IS making a mockery of her son's service. He VOLUNTEERED and loved his country. DIED for it. He knew the risks. Maybe to him, the job rewards were compensation enough. In his job there, he FREED people. People who will vote. Just like our soliders did in Afghanistan. Soon these people will vote. VOTE! I know we take it for granted, but to them...wow...it is life altering. 50% of these voters are women. Women who never had a voice before. It really is profound when you think about it. I hope the Afghan & Iraqi women use there new found rights better than one liberator's mother has. Ironic that Cindy uses the same rights given to her by men & women, like her son, who have given their lives, so that she can stand on her righteous soap box and say it is all for naught. That just disgusts me.

I'm far from a warmonger. I value life, all life. But I'm no dummy either. If we cut & run now, we empower those blood-thirsty,third-world, insane religious extremists. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want that element over here on our own soil. Americans are NOT quitters.

We have service people fighting terror all over the world, not just in Iraq. Kosovo, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan to name a few. This is not a game folks. Our guys and gals who are serving are in real danger to keep us safe.

Blessed be our service people now and all who have gone before. They need our love and support, not our criticism.

I believe that George Bush used tradgedy of September 11th, as an excuse to go after Saddam. He lied to the country about the WMDs in order to justify going to war. Now, we are in a big mess. He used to boast to Bin Laden "you can run but, you can't hide" Apparently, he misspoke, huh? He doen't even mention Bin Laden anymore.