Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt2

[fran]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=experts-touch-dna-jonbenet-ramsey That's a good link, that explains it pretty well.

FYI, I can't recall if it was 6 packages or one package of 6, .......the same brand, type, underwear that Jonbenet Ramsey had............this was by the forensic team,............anyway, 3 out of 6, from SEALED package of underwear had 'unidentified' (touch) dna.

IMHO, to me, this shows the touch dna stuff announced by Boulder was bogus in that it exonerated the Ramseys as suspect, (the subject dna may have come from the factory, they were brand new underwear).....

However,.........it does boast the science of 'touch dna,' IMO.

JMHO
fran

PS...FWIW, I have not followed the JonBonet case at all and have no opinion on the Ramsey's guilt or innocense.......this is just fyi on the 'touch dna.' LOL and I'm sure someone could dispute what I've written, especially and def attorney!

 

[TallCoolOne]

A couple of things: I believe that the threats were in the mailbox, because that is what the neighbor accross the street was asked, personally, by a detective, to keep watch for. The detective asked him to watch the mailbox for someone in-putting the letters. We have a volunteer postal service out here, so the postal person is one of three people who alternate during the week.

Secondly, the cameras originally were pointed at the front and back door, but after the threats started to come, I was told that they moved the front one to face the mailbox. If 2 or 3 months ago the cameras had picked up a suspect at the mailbox, they would have already worked on finding that person. However, what if the only person placing anything into the mailbox was CC or the postal worker?

Now, as Stella5 pointed out, this is a busy neighborhood. 75% of the residents of Columbia, work in St. Louis. So, of course, like anyone knows, the JB and poplar bride kinda get packed around 7 in the morning. So, anyone who has to go to work, tends to wake up around 6 and leave about 6:30, so they can get there, to one of those two bridges about quarter till or earlier, since the JB Bridge is 10 minutes from Columbia. I think someone would have noticed someone not related to the Colemans, snooping around their house or even walking close to it. Walking on the sidewalk is one thing, but walking around the backyard is another thing.

As for the window, the window has two locks on the top. You don't have to try to force an entry into a window to get a screen to rip. (we all know that). However, when someone says forced and window together, I think of broken window. How else can you open a window, from the outside, without braking it soemwhere? I may not be an expert on windows, but I do know what windows they have in that house, and they are the same as mine. No forced entry, means window was open or unlocked.

I have a question and hope I can ask it and make sense.

If someone were checking the mail, the way the camera was directed, would it have been visible if someone were not only checking the mail, but also putting something in it at the same time? Was the view of the mailbox such that it would have been somewhat obscured as to allow some slight-of-hand while checking ones mail?

 

[Melanie]

I most definitely would call the police! If he didn't call until he reached Gold's Gym, he was easily 15 minutes - maybe more, depending upon traffic - away from the home. The police would get there sooner.

And I don't know about you, but I do not have the phone numbers of anyone on my block. I just don't. And I don't think that is all too uncommon.

If he called once, then waited, then called again . . . now that seems strange to me given the threats history.

While I agree with you, I need to see the calling pattern. It's most important what his gym patterns were and how often he called the home while at the gym.

If he went to the gym 3X a week and always checked in with his family, you got me there. But if he went to the gym 3X a week, and this was the first time he called - I have great suspicion.

We really won't know until the phone records/patterns are released (as in the Casey Anthony case).

I also don't know any of the numbers of folks in my neighborhood, only a friend who lives a few minutes away. We keep in touch regarding our children, babysitting, sleepovers, etc.

Anyway - I'm waiting for the phone records before concluding any further. I hope they are released soon!

Best,

Mel

 

[artie gumshoe]

the reason why the camer things is strange is that both CC and his wife started a video monitoring company. They started a company that kpet people safe by placing alarms and cameras around the property. So, you would figure if they started their own video survaliance company, that the cameras be in good spots and since he was in a position where he was in charge of security, you would figure that he knew what to look for and where to aim the cameras, or lock-down his home.

 

[nervous_nellie]

I have a question and hope I can ask it and make sense.

If someone were checking the mail, the way the camera was directed, would it have been visible if someone were not only checking the mail, but also putting something in it at the same time? Was the view of the mailbox such that it would have been somewhat obscured as to allow some slight-of-hand while checking ones mail?

good idea!

 

[milopedes]

i guess what is bothering me is that most of the people that she knew or lived with or worked for (jmm) NONE OF THEM ARE STEPPING UP FOR HER AND THE BOYS ?? i dont mean her family, they are out of the loop being so far north...but not only cc worked for jm , sc went on missions for jmm - i can understand not wanting to make any comment or commitment to cc, BUT SC? i just dont get whats goin on with these people ...

I agree with you on this one! However, from her standpoint as a businesswomen - and let's face it, that is what she is in the end - it doesn't make sense to thrust yourself into the fray. I'd guess they view this as bad PR, and to simply let it go away is the course of action they have chosen.

I don't agree, but I think that is why nothing has been said publicly. If it has, then I missed it.

 

[artie gumshoe]

"If someone were checking the mail, the way the camera was directed, would it have been visible if someone were not only checking the mail, but also putting something in it at the same time? Was the view of the mailbox such that it would have been somewhat obscured as to allow some slight-of-hand while checking ones mail? "

the camera was pointed at the mailbox at a slight angle, so if there was slight of hand it may have shown it. However, who is to say that the 'threatening letters' ever saw the mailbox? If it was CC or someone who knew CC, he could have had the letters in his pocket, came home from work or went outside to get the mail if he worked at night and was home during the day (mail gets delivered at about 1:15- 1:30 daily. I'm sure he could have walked to the box, gotten the mail and on his walk back inside stuck the threatening letter(s) with the other mail.

Or, if this wasn't him, again, someone could open the box and be seen by the camera, but the view of their hands would only be partially seen.

My picture from earlier, and from this link: shows that the camera on the far right side of the house and the mailbox was on the far left side of the property. So, it may have seen a good view of whatever was happening.

 

[milopedes]

While I agree with you, I need to see the calling pattern. It's most important what his gym patterns were and how often he called the home while at the gym.

If he went to the gym 3X a week and always checked in with his family, you got me there. But if he went to the gym 3X a week, and this was the first time he called - I have great suspicion.

We really won't know until the phone records/patterns are released (as in the Casey Anthony case).

Good point made here. What does he normally do, and how can he explain any variance in his calling pattern (if there is one)? What won't help is if he regularly works out, but only calls now and again. Then, we have nothing!

 

[Wrinkles]

Okay...

So, I'm still asking myself why a grieving person would roll around the grass on the front of their home? Beat your hand on a wall until you break it, scream, start running, sit in a catatonic state somewhere -- but roll on the grass? I would like to know if there is another instance of this ever. Yeah, we all take hits differently but rolling on the grass?

Was there something on the grass, or the grass itself, that this grieving person wanted on their clothes? Was there something on their clothes they wanted on the grass?

And again why...why would someone grieving the loss of their most beloved people not be embracing everyone that loved those beloveds, why would they not be sitting by the gifts near the home reading through them -- crying, why not be asking your neighbors "What did you see -- I have to find the b***ard that got to my family."

Something rotten in Denmark.

W

 

[milopedes]

Or, if this wasn't him, again, someone could open the box and be seen by the camera, but the view of their hands would only be partially seen.

Very true! This could have happened. However, the wife was a stay at home mother who probably could have reached the mail before him.

Then again, he worked nights . . . so who knows?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

hi TT - stop what? im just curious what you might think - i keep thinking about this a lot and cant come up with much. i guess i think if anyone believed it to be someone from the jmm then jmm would be more involved in helping and figuring out who or why??

without having the police files, to look through and know EXACTLY what they have, its hard to determined......his connection to JM i feel has no direct connection/link to what happen, but unsure without the files.........those threats, which i just assume, and probably incorrectly on my part, I'm assuming they were delivered threats to the home, i think i read unofficially delivered to the home, but unsure also.........I since perhaps, there may had been some voice messages also, unsure if recoreded or not............but, if LE was here right now.......one question, i would ask for a yes or no responce to would be if any, if therE were any.......any delivered threats to the home, were they in BLOCK FORM......such as letters or words, cut out from papers magazines and attached to sheet of paper or something else...........and did they come from any papers mags from the JMM...........i would like to know that right now, but we may not know, if ever for sometime to come............its all just assumptions on my part, without having anyone here to validate and confirm anything........but LE could.
and your question about IF YOU DONT STOP.....without knowing for sure from LE, that at least one of the threats delivered started that way.........i can only speculate, and i rather know for sure..
​

 

[milopedes]

Okay...

So, I'm still asking myself why a grieving person would roll around the grass on the front of their home? Beat your hand on a wall until you break it, scream, start running, sit in a catatonic state somewhere -- but roll on the grass? I would like to know if there is another instance of this ever. Yeah, we all take hits differently but rolling on the grass?

Was there something on the grass, or the grass itself, that this grieving person wanted on their clothes? Was there something on their clothes they wanted on the grass?

And again why...why would someone grieving the loss of their most beloved people not be embracing everyone that loved those beloveds, why would they not be sitting by the gifts near the home reading through them -- crying, why not be asking your neighbors "What did you see -- I have to find the b***ard that got to my family."

Something rotten in Denmark.

W

I'm not sure he actually rolled around in the grass and made a big, public scene for all to see. This was initially reported, but later clarified (I think). When I first read that I thought that same thing: GUILTY! But, then I read the clarification.

What was also mis-reported at first was that CC discovered the bodies. This, too, was later corrected.

 

[gitana1]

The news reports state a Court Order was issued but considering such a high profile case, 3 murders, I'm sure the police are wanting to document in writing every action. It would be hard to document a phone call to Coleman's attorney requesting the client be brought in for prints.

I do understand what you're saying, Analytical. But, LE really doesn't need to document such a thing. It is standard operating procedure, from what I've seen, for LE to accumulate fingerprints and DNA evidence from every person residing at a crime scene so they can pinpoint any stranger DNA or prints. I have never seen a case where LE got a court order for evidence from someone who was not suspect and cooperating. In fact, I don't even think there was a court order in the Scott Peterson case. He was simply asked to give evidence and did even though they honed in on him as a suspect from the get go.
May I ask you, do you think LE is looking at Chris as a suspect? Or do you think they are looking at someone else. Thanks.

 

[artie gumshoe]

Okay...

So, I'm still asking myself why a grieving person would roll around the grass on the front of their home? Beat your hand on a wall until you break it, scream, start running, sit in a catatonic state somewhere -- but roll on the grass? I would like to know if there is another instance of this ever. Yeah, we all take hits differently but rolling on the grass?

Was there something on the grass, or the grass itself, that this grieving person wanted on their clothes? Was there something on their clothes they wanted on the grass?

And again why...why would someone grieving the loss of their most beloved people not be embracing everyone that loved those beloveds, why would they not be sitting by the gifts near the home reading through them -- crying, why not be asking your neighbors "What did you see -- I have to find the b***ard that got to my family."

Something rotten in Denmark.

W

my point exactly. Even after all of the bad storms we have been having, everything is still outside. Toys, flowers, even teddy bears. Makes it seem like he doesn't care what the community feels about his family that he doesn't care himself.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

See bold above . . .

I really think this will be more difficult to take to trial than many of you are thinking. Sure, we all have that "gut" feeling he is guilty. But at the end of the day it is all about reasonable doubt.

Potential Problems for Prosecution

Crime occurred in his home. Physical evidence, including prints on certain items (i.e., near window or screen, on discarded DVR, on spray paint can if it has indeed been recovered) is reduced and can be explained away.

There is alledgedly a documented history of threats. Geez, this raises a ton of red flags - in both directions. However, there can be little doubt that JMM has a ton of whackos after her - and he worked for her one could have been after him and his family too! A stretch? Yes, but not too much of one!

The manner of death is problematic. It does not leave LE with a weapon, and rules out crucial evidence like blood spatter and gun powder residue.

IMO, the biggest key to this will be first determining the time of death. CC has such a narrow timeline, explaining away forensic evidence indicating they died before he left the home will be impossible.

The ultimate question is this: What do they have which is being tested, besides the victim's themselves?

The TOD is crucial in this case and will be argued heavily by the defense expert witnesses, imo. However, I agree it will be a key factor in a conviction.

I think the threats will be played as the ace in the hole for the defense, but they run up against some major hurdles with those. Do they match the writings inside the home? Do they match Chris' handwriting? If sent by a 3rd party and Chris used them as a springboard for murder, they would not match up. There are other problems, too.

We don't know if a weapon or drugs were used to incapacitate Sheri or the boys before they were strangled or if an item was used to strangle them. (There has been much speculation on what LE is looking to find.)

I believe they are mainly waiting on Toxicology results now plus any additional information which could be obtained from people coming forward. It would appear by LE stating they were ready to move on an arrest yesterday that the evidence is sufficient. This tells me they already know the COD, MOD, and TOD. The SA's office is wanting to give themselves more time to avoid miscalcuations with the lab's timeframe to rule out drugs in their systems, imo. They don't want to miss anything to tie this case together in a neat package for a jury.

 

[milopedes]

i would like to know that right now, but we may not know, if ever for sometime to come............its all just assumptions on my part, without having anyone here to validate and confirm anything........but LE could.

Right! We don't know. There is so much we just don't know yet.

 

[Lindadanette]

A link has not been established. Since no one is privy to the investigation, it could be the scrubs have been ruled out after interview with the person whose trash they were found in.

Artie Gumshoe lives in the neighborhood and stated one of the neighbors is a nurse.

I would think that it depends on the nature of the stains. . . And that might be one of the analysis that MCS is waiting for before moving forward. They could be testing for dna, saliva and other body fluids as well as paint spray, which would be more obvious.

 

[nervous_nellie]

Okay...

So, I'm still asking myself why a grieving person would roll around the grass on the front of their home? Beat your hand on a wall until you break it, scream, start running, sit in a catatonic state somewhere -- but roll on the grass? I would like to know if there is another instance of this ever. Yeah, we all take hits differently but rolling on the grass?

Was there something on the grass, or the grass itself, that this grieving person wanted on their clothes? Was there something on their clothes they wanted on the grass?

And again why...why would someone grieving the loss of their most beloved people not be embracing everyone that loved those beloveds, why would they not be sitting by the gifts near the home reading through them -- crying, why not be asking your neighbors "What did you see -- I have to find the b***ard that got to my family."

Something rotten in Denmark.

W

my 2nd husband unfortunately did this kind of crap - BUT ONLY WHEN THERE WAS A GOOD AUDIENCE, lol. he did it once when i was rushed back into surgery because something happened and i was bleeding out...yeah, my parents hated him....

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Obviously, the threats stopped after the camera was put up. Amazing!

 

[Carrington]

I don't post much but I do enjoy reading everyone's post your a bunch of great people here. I am wondering if maybe he drugged them some how maybe put something in there drink perhaps. I hope so if he did this because i hope and pray they didnt suffer.

I was hoping for that also.
Actually, I prefer to think this, until we find out differently.