SIDEBAR #26- Arias/Alexander forum

[G&AMom]

Another fascinating thing from Jodi’s handwritten motion to remove Nurmi as her attorney that she filed last October:

“Many capital defendants are severely impaired . . . . [They] may have mental illness or personality disorders . . . be depressed or even suicidal, or they may be in complete denial in the face of overwhelming evidence . . . . It must be assumed that the client is emotionally and intellectually impaired.” (This is apparently from the ABA Death Penalty Guide.)

Jodi goes on to say that Nurmi has “little to no tolerance for my emotional and psychological short-comings.” As an example, she says that she wanted the famous phone sex tape played in a closed hearing but Nurmi did not. Other members of her “team” tried to explain why it should be played in open court but Nurmi simply stated, “You’re not going to get your way just because you throw a tantrum.”

LOL, so Nurmi’s got her number! I’m sure those tantrums worked well for her in the past. Must be tough when people start to realize it’s all BS.

But more importantly, if she’s got these emotional and psychological issues that everybody’s supposed to bend over backward about, how come she’s able to make a “knowing and intelligent” decision to ditch her attorneys and represent herself?

Forgot to post a link to her motion:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/court...to-request-a-change-of-counsel-by-jodi-arias/

It says you click on the document to see the whole thing.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Hi Pages! Where do you get all that daily information? Unfortunately I do remember almost all of it, where I was, my age at the time. Etc.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Another fascinating thing from Jodi’s handwritten motion to remove Nurmi as her attorney that she filed last October:

“Many capital defendants are severely impaired . . . . [They] may have mental illness or personality disorders . . . be depressed or even suicidal, or they may be in complete denial in the face of overwhelming evidence . . . . It must be assumed that the client is emotionally and intellectually impaired.” (This is apparently from the ABA Death Penalty Guide.)

Jodi goes on to say that Nurmi has “little to no tolerance for my emotional and psychological short-comings.” As an example, she says that she wanted the famous phone sex tape played in a closed hearing but Nurmi did not. Other members of her “team” tried to explain why it should be played in open court but Nurmi simply stated, “You’re not going to get your way just because you throw a tantrum.”

LOL, so Nurmi’s got her number! I’m sure those tantrums worked well for her in the past. Must be tough when people start to realize it’s all BS.

But more importantly, if she’s got these emotional and psychological issues that everybody’s supposed to bend over backward about, how come she’s able to make a “knowing and intelligent” decision to ditch her attorneys and represent herself?

Forgot to post a link to her motion:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/court...to-request-a-change-of-counsel-by-jodi-arias/

It says you click on the document to see the whole thing.

G&A mom,
it is funny that JSS decided she was "knowing and intelligent" which she is as nutty as a fruitcake. Oh well. Nurmi did say he liked her one day out of ten.

 

[YESorNO]

Wondering why Jodi decided to represent herself, especially after she admitted she was “over her head” when she tried to do it before in 2011, I went back and looked at her handwritten motion to fire Nurmi that she filed in October 2013. It does have a hint or two about her thinking.

At first she complains that she hasn’t seen Nurmi in 5 months, he won’t take her phone calls, and he has said she is “not entitled to an attorney who will advocate for her.” She makes it clear she is PO’d about him telling the jury he doesn’t like her (she brings this up several times). Later in the motion, she admits that Nurmi DID visit her but she refused to see him because she “doesn’t trust his advice.” And apparently it’s supposed to bother the judge (or somebody) that she “is left feeling like crap about myself and my future every time I interact with him.”

She claims that Nurmi has a very poor memory (LOL) and that he has forgotten more about the case than he remembers. Here are her examples:

She claims that Nurmi said he did not remember any mention in any of the text messages that Travis had had sex with other people, although there was a communication between Travis and Chaitanya Lay about a rendezvous at his house for sex. Afterward he suggests that Ms. Lay must have been surprised at his skill in bed, to which she concedes.

She also writes that Nurmi “also ‘forgot’ to impeach three State’s witnesses at trial (I do not refer to the one who perjured himself, Esteban Flores, nor the one who changed his testimony from his real findings to fit the theory the State wished to get before the jury, Kevin Horn). Most prominently is Deanna Reid, who, in previous recorded statements, denied she ever had sex with Travis and claimed she believed he was a virgin at the time he died. Then under oath, she testified that she and Travis did have sexual relations (because for the State’s case, it was now important that she admit it, whereas before it was important that she deny it). Mr. Nurmi failed to impeach her credibility for lying on record. Whether this was in fact due to his poor memory or simply a poor strategical decision, I am left to guess because he refused to communicate with me as to why there was no impeachment.”

I think it’s interesting that she refers to things Deanna said “in previous recorded statements” and that Deanna lied “on record.” What are those statements? When and where were they made? What record is she referring to? Were they under oath? And those emails or texts between Travis and Chaitanya Lay – were these communications from accounts that Jodi supposedly hacked into? Assuming they exist at all.

The other interesting thing is her obvious paranoia about Juan Martinez. I’m sure the other inmates in jail encouraged her to believe the State routinely perjures itself and manufactures (or destroys) evidence. Unfortunately, I also believe her attorneys encouraged her belief, perhaps unintentionally, that JM is a diabolical trickster who will do anything to prevent her from getting a fair trial.

BBM Had to look up C Lay because I forgot- it's been so long- so FYI:

[video=youtube;taxAqLiumeI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taxAqLiumeI[/video]


CL was mentioned here at the trial by JM:

"...MARTINEZ: You`re willing to come into court like you did last Thursday in the morning and part of the afternoon and give an opinion about a relationship involving people such as Mr. Alexander and Chaitanya Lay without talking to Chaitanya Lay and without talking to Travis Alexander, correct?

LAVIOLETTE: I`ve looked at far more than that, Mr. Martinez...."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1304/08/ijvm.01.html

 

[daisymae]

Robin Williams passed away today at age 63. We'll miss you, Robin. RIP

Apparently suicide.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Robin Williams passed away today at age 63. We'll miss you, Robin. RIP

Apparently suicide.

Oh my. I am so sad about this. Money and fame cannot make you happy. He was a good comedic actor. Sure hate this news.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Today in history update

Robin Williams has died





https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iqdSagycCWc


[video=youtube;PqxpC_jYncE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PqxpC_jYncE[/video] my favorite


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EbEBErvW-Uc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEBErvW-Uc&feature=player_detailpage




and why can I only post one video?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

BBM Had to look up C Lay because I forgot- it's been so long- so FYI:

[video=youtube;taxAqLiumeI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taxAqLiumeI[/video]


CL was mentioned here at the trial by JM:

"...MARTINEZ: You`re willing to come into court like you did last Thursday in the morning and part of the afternoon and give an opinion about a relationship involving people such as Mr. Alexander and Chaitanya Lay without talking to Chaitanya Lay and without talking to Travis Alexander, correct?

LAVIOLETTE: I`ve looked at far more than that, Mr. Martinez...."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1304/08/ijvm.01.html

Shudder........those man hands.

When was this video taken? Was looking a those boney fingers, they all look knobbly

 

[YESorNO]

Robin Williams passed away today at age 63. We'll miss you, Robin. RIP

Apparently suicide.

RIP :candle:

Robin Williams Dead: Beloved Actor Dies In Apparent Suicide

"Beloved actor Robin Williams was found dead on Monday, police reported.

He was 63.

The apparent cause of death was suicide by asphyxiation, authorities said. According to his publicist, Williams had been battling severe depression..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-dies_n_5670050.html

Investigation into Death of Actor Robin Williams

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/robinwilliamsdead.pdf


:anguish:

 

[YESorNO]

Shudder........those man hands.

When was this video taken? Was looking a those boney fingers, they all look knobbly

BBM YTube Published on Oct 25, 2013

 

[Love Never Fails]

YorN,
i didn't know JA accused Travis of sleeping with her friend. (She actually had a friend? If so, why didn't the defense call the said friend to testify on Jodi's behalf?) I am guessing this woman was an acquaintance and not a friend. Which begs the question, why does it matter? At some point why didn't JA stop seeing Travis? Why move to his town? Then why travel all the way back from northern CA to AZ to kill him? She was just obsessed with the idea of having him. If she couldn't, no one would.

 

[YESorNO]

YorN,
i didn't know JA accused Travis of sleeping with her friend. (She actually had a friend? If so, why didn't the defense call the said friend to testify on Jodi's behalf?) I am guessing this woman was an acquaintance and not a friend. Which begs the question, why does it matter? At some point why didn't JA stop seeing Travis? Why move to his town? Then why travel all the way back from northern CA to AZ to kill him? She was just obsessed with the idea of having him. If she couldn't, no one would.

I don't think she had any "friends"- just acquaintances.

And those "friends" she used to her advantage, IMO.

She's a narcissist:

Narcissism

"...Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[8]

Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.

Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other...."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Doesn't it sound just like missy? :jail:

 

[neesaki]

Robin Williams passed away today at age 63. We'll miss you, Robin. RIP

Apparently suicide.

omg, I am in shock. :cry:

 

[YESorNO]

This makes me go :gaah:

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Aug 9
Art $ does not go into appellate fund because that would be legally foolish. Some people want to take J's $ with their wrongful death suit.


Take her money? The art money is going to her family, according to missy:jail: (because they neeeeeeeeeeed it- Pftttt).
The money should go to Travis' family and to the AZ taxpayers, IMO.

:bigstick:

 

[Kensie]

I don't think she had any "friends"- just acquaintances.

And those "friends" she used to her advantage, IMO.

She's a narcissist:

Narcissism

"...Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[8]

Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.

Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other...."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Doesn't it sound just like missy? :jail:

Dealing with a narcissist is not easy. I have had first hand experience. Part of my depression.

 

[neesaki]

I never did read Jodi's reasons for wanting to fire Nurmi. But it kind of makes me sick to read what you have quoted here. All she thought about was sex. Who Travis was having sex with, whether he lied, etc. whether it was recorded. None of that mattered to me during the trial. He was single. He could have sex with anyone he wished to. She made herself readily available, recorded their sex conversations, admittedly took naked pictures and then wanted to paint him as a deviate. Truth is, none of that matters one iota. She was never abused. She was just in a jealous rage because she thought she owned him. So she killed him. He didn't kill her. She is sick, twisted and demented. Dring the penalty phase, I don't think the defense (JA) should even be allowed to bring up the fact that Travis was a sexual person at all. It does not matter. IMO, it never did. It is all she has. She loves those memories. She loves to torment. And she would love to torment Deanna. Hopefully the a judge will not allow JA to torment anyone. Just get on with the sentencing.

Agree 100 % ! Thank you Indiana. :goodpost:

 

[AZlawyer]

Thanks AZlawyer. So JSS can allow us to view the trial with a 15 minute delay if she so chooses. But does she have only until trial start date to change her mind? I can't see why she would change in the middle of the trial.

Isn't it probable the selection of jurors will be a problem and all the rumors and innuendo throughout the trial will be a nightmare if JSS closes the courtroom to live coverage? I don't understand why there can't be transparency, nor why the Judge chose not to allow cameras. I heard it was at the request of the defense but do we know that? Do you know why?

The only trial I have seen where everyone played to the live cameras was the OJ Simpson trial. That seemed to be a mockery of the justice system, or maybe people weren't accustomed to being on camera.

Are you willing to make an educated guess as to how this penalty phase will go and whether it might be covered live and what sentence JA will receive?

My simple mind believes that JM is fighting so hard for the death penalty because of the severe slaughter of Travis and because Jodi has lied and denied so much and shows no remorse. He knows far more than we know and I think he knows she was planning to kill again. (planning another road trip with a gun and knives). To me, it appears she has pushed the court, the prosecutors, the detectives, and the Alexander family so hard, that no one will back down now. Jmo

I think the only way the judge would allow a 15-min. delay broadcast would be if there was some one-issue hearing that was separable from the rest of the penalty phase.

I believe it was the defense consistently requesting no cameras. I believe (perhaps cynically) that the reason for the request was to create an appeal issue re: "circus" atmosphere allegedly affecting jurors, prosecution, witnesses, etc.

I don't think it will be aired live or with a 15-min. delay. And I don't think she will get the death penalty. But I will not be sorry if she does.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Wondering why Jodi decided to represent herself, especially after she admitted she was “over her head” when she tried to do it before in 2011, I went back and looked at her handwritten motion to fire Nurmi that she filed in October 2013. It does have a hint or two about her thinking.

At first she complains that she hasn’t seen Nurmi in 5 months, he won’t take her phone calls, and he has said she is “not entitled to an attorney who will advocate for her.” She makes it clear she is PO’d about him telling the jury he doesn’t like her (she brings this up several times). Later in the motion, she admits that Nurmi DID visit her but she refused to see him because she “doesn’t trust his advice.” And apparently it’s supposed to bother the judge (or somebody) that she “is left feeling like crap about myself and my future every time I interact with him.”

She claims that Nurmi has a very poor memory (LOL) and that he has forgotten more about the case than he remembers. Here are her examples:

She claims that Nurmi said he did not remember any mention in any of the text messages that Travis had had sex with other people, although there was a communication between Travis and Chaitanya Lay about a rendezvous at his house for sex. Afterward he suggests that Ms. Lay must have been surprised at his skill in bed, to which she concedes.

She also writes that Nurmi “also ‘forgot’ to impeach three State’s witnesses at trial (I do not refer to the one who perjured himself, Esteban Flores, nor the one who changed his testimony from his real findings to fit the theory the State wished to get before the jury, Kevin Horn). Most prominently is Deanna Reid, who, in previous recorded statements, denied she ever had sex with Travis and claimed she believed he was a virgin at the time he died. Then under oath, she testified that she and Travis did have sexual relations (because for the State’s case, it was now important that she admit it, whereas before it was important that she deny it). Mr. Nurmi failed to impeach her credibility for lying on record. Whether this was in fact due to his poor memory or simply a poor strategical decision, I am left to guess because he refused to communicate with me as to why there was no impeachment.”

I think it’s interesting that she refers to things Deanna said “in previous recorded statements” and that Deanna lied “on record.” What are those statements? When and where were they made? What record is she referring to? Were they under oath? And those emails or texts between Travis and Chaitanya Lay – were these communications from accounts that Jodi supposedly hacked into? Assuming they exist at all.

The other interesting thing is her obvious paranoia about Juan Martinez. I’m sure the other inmates in jail encouraged her to believe the State routinely perjures itself and manufactures (or destroys) evidence. Unfortunately, I also believe her attorneys encouraged her belief, perhaps unintentionally, that JM is a diabolical trickster who will do anything to prevent her from getting a fair trial.

pot calling the kettle black......how many times did Jodi lie on record? Too many time to count.

Yes, Jodi's gunning for DeAnna. Travis loved her ,wanted to marry her ,made love to her. I wonder if Jodi wants all the detail of sex ( I think Jodi hasn't realized that Travis and DeAnna "made love" and she, Jodi was just a three hole wonder, easy) between Travis and DeAnna made public like the sex was with her.

 

[rose222]

Remember Travis left Deanna his dog Napoleon and his library. Jodi was basically a nothing in Travis' life whereas Deanna was Travis' love and close friend even after they broke up. Travis leaving his precious library and beloved dog to Deanna was an exquisite expression of love for his dear friend. So, of course, Deanna is number one on Jodi's list of people to humiliate and harass.


But I still don't think jealousy was the main factor in his death. I think it had more to do with the last few exchanges and something Travis threatened to reveal because he was fed up.

 

[east2west]

I really think the killer wants to represent herself for three reasons
1. We all know that she is Einstein
2. She will have more opportunity to charm the male jurors.
3. Probably about midway through the trail , she will declare that she cannot handle the case anymore and try to
pull another stall tactic.

Stalling as long as she can before the inevitable happens and she is transported to the Big House and out of sight/out of mind.

I agree. The thought of her having to move out of the county jail for the squalor of Perryville has got to be a huge bee in her bonnet. [emoji4]