Sidebar Discussion #10

[logicalgirl]

Quite frankly, I've always believed he was less than diligent in keeping up with the paperwork in the trial and relied on others to summarize for him. I believe some of his senior law students enrolled in his "class" at St. Thomas University School of Law did much of the work in that area. He was teaching them trial preparation, after all.

At the time, I discussed this very issue with a bunch of friends who also followed the case. At that time, I wondered how much in order his paperwork really was. I ONLY had printed out all the motions and some of the interviews, enough to fill 2 1/2 file boxes. It was a struggle to keep them in order and updated. I imagined his office filled with boxes with paperwork dumped into them and unsorted. One day, one of the workers in his office couldn't find a motion (IMHO) and googled it. It linked to the blog I was writing during the discovery phase. They entered in at my article and exited to the document itself.

Earlier, I linked to the fact-checking thread about Tony L's testimony where Baez was grilling him without the jury present on accusations Casey had made. Baez actually had to leave the courtroom to find the deposition Tony gave. When he got back with the depo, he grlled Tony on what he had said there. As it turned out, there wasn't enough there to impeach him and Judge Perry ruled he couldn't testify in front of the jury.

Sloppy, sloppy work from the defense, especially Baez' motions.

IMHO, a good attorney starts the case with a cogent defense and refines it as discovery continues. In his case, Baez spent years trying to find someone to pin the crime on. His JAC money for research was wasted on TES workers, interviews with Mr. Kronk's wives, etc. He jumped onto his defense way late into trial preparation and it more resembled a spaghetti defense which saw the jury eating a lot of Italian food from the wall where it stuck.

I found this link early on in the trial. It's a good read on how to prepare a defense in an organized fashion. Do you think Baez ever read it?

http://www.mcle.org/includes/pdf/1960301B00_S.pdf

I don't have to read your link to answer that question - NO!

 

[BChand]

Thanks, I appreciate that thought. It would be my pleasure to chat with Mr. baez extensively, and if I were the only one their, I would get that opportunity.

By, the way, Ashton's still making light of the deathj of Caylee Anthony, as he did in court, when he laughed.


"Lamar announced that he had instituted on Tuesday a policy that people in the state attorney’s office couldn’t profit from inside information, a slam against Ashton’s book on the Casey Anthony trial.

“I guess they call that the Ashton rule?” Ashton asked. The line earned laughter from the audience at the University of Central Florida."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en.../jeff-ashton-lawson-lamar-debate-who-won.html

I find it difficult to read your posts since you do not link the post you are referring to until the end.

However, please remember that the person who laughed the most at Ashton's "pig in the blanket" statement was none other than the mother of the deceased child. She got a big kick out of that.

The evidence of this is posted on the fact checking thread.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

Thanks, I appreciate that thought. It would be my pleasure to chat with Mr. baez extensively, and if I were the only one their, I would get that opportunity.

By, the way, Ashton's still making light of the deathj of Caylee Anthony, as he did in court, when he laughed.


"Lamar announced that he had instituted on Tuesday a policy that people in the state attorney’s office couldn’t profit from inside information, a slam against Ashton’s book on the Casey Anthony trial.

“I guess they call that the Ashton rule?” Ashton asked. The line earned laughter from the audience at the University of Central Florida."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en.../jeff-ashton-lawson-lamar-debate-who-won.html

BBM... Ashton has NEVER made light of Caylee's death, that is an ill-informed accusation. During one of the hearings early on, the first time we got a glimpse of the prosecution's angle, he gave the most gut wrenching speech about the duct tape around Caylee's mouth. It gives me chills all these years later to think about how passionate he was. He was laughing at Baez's stupidity in court, not at Caylee's death. What a wretched insinuation.

 

[BChand]

Quite frankly, I've always believed he was less than diligent in keeping up with the paperwork in the trial and relied on others to summarize for him. I believe some of his senior law students enrolled in his "class" at St. Thomas University School of Law did much of the work in that area. He was teaching them trial preparation, after all.

At the time, I discussed this very issue with a bunch of friends who also followed the case. At that time, I wondered how much in order his paperwork really was. I ONLY had printed out all the motions and some of the interviews, enough to fill 2 1/2 file boxes. It was a struggle to keep them in order and updated. I imagined his office filled with boxes with paperwork dumped into them and unsorted. One day, one of the workers in his office couldn't find a motion (IMHO) and googled it. It linked to the blog I was writing during the discovery phase. They entered in at my article and exited to the document itself.

Earlier, I linked to the fact-checking thread about Tony L's testimony where Baez was grilling him without the jury present on accusations Casey had made. Baez actually had to leave the courtroom to find the deposition Tony gave. When he got back with the depo, he grlled Tony on what he had said there. As it turned out, there wasn't enough there to impeach him and Judge Perry ruled he couldn't testify in front of the jury.

Sloppy, sloppy work from the defense, especially Baez' motions.

IMHO, a good attorney starts the case with a cogent defense and refines it as discovery continues. In his case, Baez spent years trying to find someone to pin the crime on. His JAC money for research was wasted on TES workers, interviews with Mr. Kronk's wives, etc. He jumped onto his defense way late into trial preparation and it more resembled a spaghetti defense which saw the jury eating a lot of Italian food from the wall where it stuck.

I found this link early on in the trial. It's a good read on how to prepare a defense in an organized fashion. Do you think Baez ever read it?

http://www.mcle.org/includes/pdf/1960301B00_S.pdf

No. He claims in his book that he read ALL of the discovery. I don't believe him.

I'd love to find the video of him saying "just wait until you hear my opening statement and you will say aha". I believe he said that before Caylee's body was found. (I could be wrong about that.)

Then I'd compare that to his motion to get Casey out of jail to "try and help in locating Caylee." That was in Oct of 08 IIRC. I remember thinking at the time, "did she forget where she dumped her?"

 

[Intermezzo]

I don't have to read your link to answer that question - NO!

He may have been to busy reading this book

"Theater Tips and Strategies for Jury Trials" by David Ball

 

[BChand]

Just an update. I asked Diane Fanning on her FB about the NYTBS list but she has not responded.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Hey...that $4 an hour bit...wasn't that comment made here recently by a poster?

ETA: and that article proves, once again, how full of cr*pola he really is!! I wonder if this book signing will even happen.

Cue the violins....... :boohoo: oh, but wait a minute- when Baez was making such a huge sacrifice, and couldn't pay his staff- even his house was in foreclosure-he took a vacation in Paris with Mrs B....

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

I have a question..
he talks about getting 80 some thousand from selling the pictures..
where did the rest of that money go.. we know it wasnt to the irs lol

 

[Ricki]

Okiedokie posted this in the news thread. Interesting.
Journalism’s Misdeeds Get a Glance in the Mirror
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/bu...-equation.html

 

[rossva]

Please, imo, as fast as that book was in stores, a lot of had to have been written during the trial. All he had to do was change the ending.

And in addition - that was a stupid statement from Lamar since Jeff Ashton was not a member of the state attorney's office when he wrote his book - he had retired and was a private citizen...:waitasec:

 

[LambChop]

I have a question..
he talks about getting 80 some thousand from selling the pictures..
where did the rest of that money go.. we know it wasnt to the irs lol

He was paid for defending her against the check fraud. We don't know how much he received because it was paid before KC claimed she was indigent. It is believed that most, if not all the money went to JB. So it was not just $89,000 he received, he was also paid for the other case of check fraud but we will never have an accounting of that. He had to account for it "behind closed doors" with Judge Strickland. If the money was spent on experts for her murder trial there would be no reason not to reveal it so it had to be for the check fraud issue. No wonder Strickland had such a poor opinion of him. jmo

 

[Dignity4Victims]

Thanks, I appreciate that thought. It would be my pleasure to chat with Mr. baez extensively, and if I were the only one their, I would get that opportunity.

By, the way, Ashton's still making light of the deathj of Caylee Anthony, as he did in court, when he laughed.


"Lamar announced that he had instituted on Tuesday a policy that people in the state attorney’s office couldn’t profit from inside information, a slam against Ashton’s book on the Casey Anthony trial.

“I guess they call that the Ashton rule?” Ashton asked. The line earned laughter from the audience at the University of Central Florida."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en.../jeff-ashton-lawson-lamar-debate-who-won.html

The connection you have imagined in your mind between Ashton's comment to Lamar having anything to do with disrespecting Caylee is so wrongly skewed that it's off the charts.

Perhaps you aren't aware that Ashton dedicated his book to the honor of Caylee.

Perhaps you aren't aware that Caylee's own birth mother, Casey Marie Anthony, laughed hysterically at Ashton's "pig in a blanket" retort during the Trial; why, she could hardly contain herself and had to cover her mouth (finally) to stop herself after others had already calmed down.

Perhaps you aren't aware that Baez' book contains pages and pages of THE MOST disrespect to Caylee as he speaks of strolling through Wal-Mart to purchase a saw to cut her skull open on the most Blessed day of the year, Christmas Eve, all the while he is also insulting a busload of mentally challenged patrons in Wal-Mart. During televised interviews, Baez actually laughs when he repeats his story of degradation both of Caylee and these Wal-Mart patrons.

Perhaps you just aren't aware....period.

 

[Intermezzo]

Please, imo, as fast as that book was in stores, a lot of had to have been written during the trial. All he had to do was change the ending.

Surely, a person (Ashton in this case) who has retired from their career or employment can devote many hours to write a book and have it published in 4 months?

Heck Fifty Shades Trilogy books 2 and 3 iirc was written and published quicker than that. :blushing:

 

[rossva]

I do not know the answers to your questions, but if I get the chance I will ask Mr. Lamar your questions at his next campaign event.

Interesting

Not directed specifically to you Rossva
But I have questions....Seriously.


I don't have an issue with the Policy for current employees but I have questions with it if it extends beyond that.

Does that new Policy extend to former employees, any and all persons who are NO longer employed by the State Attorney's Office? Banning that person from such things as writing a book, talking to others...ie in interviews, seminars, guest speaker in their private lives? If any of those involve a payment?
Is that Constitutionally legal?

Will this Policy have any effect on Florida's Sunshine Law and Open Government Laws? The 1992 Amendment to the Florida Constitution expanded openness to the Judiciary Branch of Gov't

Lamar can institute a Policy within his Office for current employees but does he has Legal authority to prevent a former employee, someone not working for the Government from earning a living, in any form that former employee chooses?

 

[okiedokietoo]

Speaking of reading, this was so interesting the first time I read it, just had to, had to read it again.
A forensic psychologist on anger, madness and destructive behavior.
by Stephen A. Diamond, Ph.D.
What do Casey Anthony and Joran van der Sloot have in common?
Published on January 13, 2012
Four (4) Page Article
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201201/joran-casey-and-psychopathic-narcissism-forensic-commentary

Having previously posted multiple times on both this and the Casey Anthony case (see some of my prior posts), it is hard not to note some similarities in the demeanor (if not alleged crimes) of these two young people. How can we make sense of their seeming lack of profoundly human, universal feelings like empathy, guilt, remorse or shame? Though I cannot provide a detailed and accurate psychological evaluation of defendants (or former defendants) without having first formally examined them myself, there is clearly much to learn from studying these two tragic cases.

" Whenever we see some pattern of potentially illegal behaviors combined with the absence of remorse and appropriate affect, we are likely witnessing, at the very least, what clinicians call "antisocial traits." As I have proposed in prior posts, there is a close correlation between antisocial behavior and pathological narcissism.

Another stunning similarity between Casey and Joran is their obvious cunning and native intelligence. We see this clearly demonstrated in both Casey's creatively elaborate lying behavior to police, her parents and others. (According to experienced prosecutor Jeff Ashton, "she was the best liar I`ve ever seen.") As well as in her apparently complete conning of a seasoned forensic psychologist

Now that van der Sloot has chosen conveniently to plead guilty to his crime in Peru, he will likely serve at least half of his 28 year sentence. He has thus far fairly skillfully manipulated the Peruvian justice system, in much the same way many believe Casey Anthony successfully manipulated the justice system in Florida.

And many observers feel equally queasy about Casey Anthony's newfound freedom. Who knows? Fate can be funny. Maybe those two are really made for each other.

Stephen A. Diamond, Ph.D., is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist (PSY11404) practicing in Los Angeles, and a former pupil and protege of existential analyst Dr. Rollo May. In addition to specializing in providing existential and depth psychologically oriented psychotherapy to adult patients for the past 35 years, Dr. Diamond is a former member of the Forensic Panel for the Santa Clara County Superior Court and Approved Panel of Psychiatrists and Psychologists for the Superior Court of Los Angeles County (Criminal Divisions), conducting forensic evaluations and serving as an expert witness in various criminal cases.....
Complete Bio
http://www.psychologytoday.com/experts/stephen-diamond-phd

 

[LambChop]

/quote/ "Lamar announced that he had instituted on Tuesday a policy that people in the state attorney’s office couldn’t profit from inside information, a slam against Ashton’s book on the Casey Anthony trial.

“I guess they call that the Ashton rule?” Ashton asked. The line earned laughter from the audience at the University of Central Florida."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...e-who-won.html /end of quote/

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything since Mr. Ashton's book was about facts of the case much of which was released to the public through the Sunshine Laws. I don't think JA released any earth shaking evidence that would discredt the State Attorney's office. If there were anything shading going on within the office I would hope any person working there would reveal that information to the public regardless. JA still could write that book today because 99% of the information was already released he'd only be prohibited to put "inside information" in the book.

On another note, on the JB misinformation thread there are presently 53 posts calling out all the misquotes, misinformation and just sloppy research work by whoever did the work for JB's book and the thread has only been recently opened. To those who worked so hard to highlight those quotes and further post the correct information according to the media interviews and information from the Sunshine Law I want to thank you all. Good job. jmo

 

[Intermezzo]

I do not know the answers to your questions, but if I get the chance I will ask Mr. Lamar your questions at his next campaign event.

Thank you

 

[logicalgirl]

Surely, a person (Ashton in this case) who has retired from their career or employment can devote many hours to write a book and have it published in 4 months?

Heck Fifty Shades Trilogy books 2 and 3 iirc was written and published quicker than that. :blushing:

And to add, Ashton wrote his book partnered with an already successful author who had five successful true crime books already published and he had a publishing house prepared to handle his novel before they even began.

Mr. Baez resigned as FCA's lawyer in Feb and his book was "at press" by the first of June. Plus he did not have a pre-approved publisher so had to have time off from writing to shop his book around and finally settling on self publishing.

So each author apparently completed their book in three months. Is there any question who presented the more factual information and a better book?

Well, let's just watch the sales numbers and let them answer that question, shall we?

 

[rossva]

This is laughing in court by Mr. Ashton I was refering to :

http://youtu.be/O1ZsXCOx_hk

Although thank you for pointing out another time he made light of Caylee's death.

I find it difficult to read your posts since you do not link the post you are referring to until the end.

However, please remember that the person who laughed the most at Ashton's "pig in the blanket" statement was none other than the mother of the deceased child. She got a big kick out of that.

The evidence of this is posted on the fact checking thread.

 

[rossva]

You have your opinion, I have mine. Either way it was highly inappropriate to laugh.

BBM... Ashton has NEVER made light of Caylee's death, that is an ill-informed accusation. During one of the hearings early on, the first time we got a glimpse of the prosecution's angle, he gave the most gut wrenching speech about the duct tape around Caylee's mouth. It gives me chills all these years later to think about how passionate he was. He was laughing at Baez's stupidity in court, not at Caylee's death. What a wretched insinuation.