Sidebar Discussion #2

[2goldfish]

Eidetic
It has always fascinated me how perception differs from one person to another. What I see is JB's mind going directly to..I'm gonna be a Star...fame and fortune..here I come.
I would love to hear yours and everyone else's take on some other parts of the video. This video is hard for me to watch, by far the most upsetting for me and I close my eyes everytime they played it.

At 17 seconds, after Judge P says.."Would you hand the verdict form to the court deputy please"..JB is staring at the jurors, he *advertiser censored* his head, opens his mouth a little and has the slightest grin..the corners of his mouth go up just a bit.

After this FCA is waiting for the verdict and she's staring a hole through the juror's...I think she's thinking...I'm going to get everyone of you people, I don't care what it takes, I'll find a way to get you back if you convict me.

The most interesting to me is when the jurors are being polled. Go through and listen to every juror's response and tell me who you think has a conviction to their decision, who doesn't and if you hear any sadness in anyones voice.
Juror's 3-4-6-8-9-10-12 sound OK with their decision
Juror #1..I'm on the fence with her
Juror #7...not sure at all if she's done the right thing
Juror's 2-11...not sure of their decsion
Juror #5..has some sadness in her voice

If you watch the video without sound it's also quite interesting from 1:48 through 3:42...watch FCA's face.

As always...JMO

all of you than can watch it are amazing. I doubt I ever will again. the mere thought or any quote from it makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[2goldfish]

this is totally off topic, but can anyone tell me the name of the baby girl nancy grace is trying to track down, I can't find a thread for it! Thanks dudes :0)

here is her forum

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=463"]Lisa Irwin Missing! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[MsMacGyver]

I have to say in respect to FCA getting an E True Hollywood time slot and having a song including her name, no matter what the intention, to me is heartbreaking. imo...FCA truly believes that ANY attention IS good. No disrespect to anyone..just felt a strong desire to post my feelings on the subject. We all decide our own lines we draw for ourselves and this is one I can't seem to cross. I would like to see more songs and shows dedicated to "Caylees song" cause hers was alot sweeter...really was innocent and serves as a reminder to the evilness that took her from this earth that no matter what FCA tried to accomplish by her actions..you can't erase something so good in life by wrapping them in garbage bags and dumping them in a swamp...life just doesn't flow that way...FCA...you like to read..why not try Edmund Burke..."All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"...ain't gonna happen!

 

[MsMacGyver]

Never mind me, just showing off my new avatar and signature (if they work) LOL

OK...I'm jealous...I've been looking for just the right one..So I've been here since 2008..never said I was fast...:floorlaugh:

Where did you find this?

 

[kaki]

all of you than can watch it are amazing. I doubt I ever will again. the mere thought or any quote from it makes me sick to my stomach.

I couldn't watch the verdict again either .. it would be much too upsetting. There are probably lots of detail I missed about it though because I was in such shock at the time.

When HLN brings anything up about the case they seem to think they have to show the verdict celebration.. you know all the jubilation from the DT ...and especially DS that she was able to help free a baby killer? I can't bear to see her jumping up and down in glee with that big mop of hair bouncing...UGH...:sick:

Ok.. time to think about something more pleasant...:crazy:

 

[cityslick]

I have to say in respect to FCA getting an E True Hollywood time slot and having a song including her name, no matter what the intention, to me is heartbreaking. imo...FCA truly believes that ANY attention IS good. No disrespect to anyone..just felt a strong desire to post my feelings on the subject. We all decide our own lines we draw for ourselves and this is one I can't seem to cross. I would like to see more songs and shows dedicated to "Caylees song" cause hers was alot sweeter...really was innocent and serves as a reminder to the evilness that took her from this earth that no matter what FCA tried to accomplish by her actions..you can't erase something so good in life by wrapping them in garbage bags and dumping them in a swamp...life just doesn't flow that way...FCA...you like to read..why not try Edmund Burke..."All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"...ain't gonna happen!

I agree. Any attention or coverage, no matter if it's positive or negative, is still coverage. She's getting more attention then her daughter ever did and lets face it, it's not going to change. The victim usually is forgotten unless it's a well known victim (see MJ). I don't recall a whole lot of talk of Nicole or Ron Goldman when OJ was free either.

 

[bayouland]

I think there's a difference in actually visualizing the crime, no matter how bad it is, and refusing to even think about it because it's too horrifying. I think this jury falls into the latter category. They went with what was nicer in their minds, not the reality of what actually happened. The prosecution did a great job in giving them plenty to visualize, but the problem is that they didn't want to visualize it. It mad them feel better to think that Caylee drowned because of negligence, even though there wasn't a drop of evidence to prove that, not that her mother was a cold blooded killer with a mountain of evidence to prove it.

BBM. I agree with this completely and am guilty too of thinking for the longest time that it was an overdose and coverup, therefore ignoring the horrifying truth when my scenario didn't make sense after all pieces were put together (thanks Logicalgirl).

I am wiser now, but I can see how this could happen.

Please don't think I feel this excuses the jury, it was their job to accept reality and act accordingly. They didn't.

All JMO.

 

[bayouland]

OK...I'm jealous...I've been looking for just the right one..So I've been here since 2008..never said I was fast...:floorlaugh:

Where did you find this?

Go to your User CP. There are 4 pages of Avatars and I just picked one I like.
I know you can upload your own but I didn't do that.

For the signature (witch) that is a file that I uploaded from my laptop.

 

[bayouland]

I have to say in respect to FCA getting an E True Hollywood time slot and having a song including her name, no matter what the intention, to me is heartbreaking. imo...FCA truly believes that ANY attention IS good. No disrespect to anyone..just felt a strong desire to post my feelings on the subject. We all decide our own lines we draw for ourselves and this is one I can't seem to cross. I would like to see more songs and shows dedicated to "Caylees song" cause hers was alot sweeter...really was innocent and serves as a reminder to the evilness that took her from this earth that no matter what FCA tried to accomplish by her actions..you can't erase something so good in life by wrapping them in garbage bags and dumping them in a swamp...life just doesn't flow that way...FCA...you like to read..why not try Edmund Burke..."All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"...ain't gonna happen!

I do agree that FCA probably thinks any attention is good. It is not.

Don't let this get you down.


JMO.

 

[logicalgirl]

all of you than can watch it are amazing. I doubt I ever will again. the mere thought or any quote from it makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm with you 2goldfish - there is no way I could watch the reading of the verdict again - even with the sound off. I was physically and emotionally blown apart that day - and it's taken awhile to do the healing needed - even with that - I still feel like bits of my psyche are still barely glued back together again and are marked - extremely fragile.

While I believe I feel with my heart, I think in terms of actions, deeds and statistics - and that's the logical part of me. I start with the big picture, and then complete the picture tiny step by tiny step.

When I first came into this case - the day we all saw OCA strutting along in the blue hoodie -my reaction was WTH is going on here? While she sure looked hinky if not guilty, I like to base my decisions on the facts, then run it through my emotional senses - to see if I can live with what the facts have told me.

I don't like to think mother's kill their children. But the statistics tell me they do - so my emotional side says - who am I then to say they don't. It's weird because a lot of my decisions I don't even "like" - but there they are. Too based on evidence and fact to say they are "untrue".

People lie, but forensics and evidence don't. And there is no way this side of heaven OCA is innocent - no matter what lala land the jurors live in. Maybe the issue was these 12 people were too cut off from the real world, and that's why they decided the way they did. Many said they do not read the newspaper, do not watch the news and seem to be living on their own little fantasy island. Don't know, don't know, don't know, can't explain it...:dunno:

I came into this case wondering why did this child die? I got my answers. I'm still here because I still asking why? But this question is about the jury...Why? Why did you not give Caylee the justice she deserved?

I have not read or heard or seen anything that even comes close to answering that question. It's weird - I accept the verdict as final - but...WHY???

 

[strawberry]

how to make chloroform = hot ol homework for cma

Now THAT's a good one!

 

[logicalgirl]

OK...I'm jealous...I've been looking for just the right one..So I've been here since 2008..never said I was fast...:floorlaugh:

Where did you find this?

MsMacGyver there are a gazillion of them out there - just put free avatars into your search line and away you go. I was looking over them and found about four right away I thought would suit you just fine.
But then I don't know if your are cartoon, fantasy, animal or what....

 

[logicalgirl]

...... :desert: ......:waitasec: ..........:waiting: ...

 

[wonders]

You kindness (cash please) and support (cash please) will continue to light the way for Caylee (or more accurately and importantly .. us)

I don't think "please" is in the Anthony vocabulary. :crazy:

 

[2goldfish]

...... :desert: ......:waitasec: ..........:waiting: ...

that's what I said :sigh:

 

[Well Done 99]

I agree. Any attention or coverage, no matter if it's positive or negative, is still coverage. She's getting more attention then her daughter ever did and lets face it, it's not going to change. The victim usually is forgotten unless it's a well known victim (see MJ). I don't recall a whole lot of talk of Nicole or Ron Goldman when OJ was free either.

How right you are cityslick. The old saying - any publicity's .......
How many of us could NAME Bundy's, Dahmer's or The Zodiac's victims? Yet the killers themselves are some of the most recognized people in the world.
We all know who Charles Manson is, but who was Sharon Tate again?

 

[Well Done 99]

I don't think "please" is in the Anthony vocabulary. :crazy:

Lol wonders. Please feel free to amend it to 'gimme'.

 

[miss plum]

She will only ever be accepted by people who are in denial about who she is, and she will think they are fools and it will devalue their regard for her. No one who knows who she is will ever give her the narcissistic supply she craves, apart from CA, who knows what she did and has apparently decided to view it as a minor transgression. Being despised is hell for a narcissist; she wants adoring enthralled reflections, not millions of unfooled scathing faces. I don't think she is hiding because she is scared, I think she is hiding because she is a humiliated wounded narcissist.

 

[Pattymarie]

I couldn't find this answer on the Dr. Phil threads. I noticed many new pics of the A family on the shows. Were they paid for these outright?

 

[denjet]

I think JBP could take some lessons from the judge in the MJ trial. I was expecting CM's trial to be total chaos. In fact, I didn't watch the beginning because I didn't want to see our legal system twisted into a joke again. I'm amazed at how professional the trial has been so far (at least what I've seen). As soon as a member of the DT went on a talk show blasting the prosecution he ordered a gag order immediately. He refused to sequester the jury. The CM judge instructs the jury all the time but he doesn't kiss their arse. In a word he is professional to everyone. He does not yell, snap at people or issue threats. JBP was all over the place, sickening sweet to downright rude to giving threats that were just that, empty threats.

I was looking for a good clip of one of my favs (Dr. Arpad Vass) when we were having a little fun with JB's staged picture in front of a computer. JBP was just plain rude to Vass in front of the jury. He told him if you want the jury to hear you, you must slow down. It wasn't what he said but how he said it. Did the jury read into his tone, body language, etc? Was Vass' testimony completely ignored by the jury because JBP kissed their a## 15 times a day and was outright rude to Vass?

The exact same scenario happened in the MJ case. The anesthesiologist was talking fast and using some pretty complicated medical terms. The judge asked him several times to slow down but it was completely different than JBP. He did it respectfully. In fact, the court reporter stopped him and asked for a spelling and there was for the first time I saw, a tiny bit of laughter in courtroom to include the doc as he apologized again and tried to slow down. The lawyers aren't making faces and cracking jokes. The defendant is not making faces, mouthing words to the jury or burying his face in his attorneys arm pit to garner sympathy. The judge would shut that nonsense down immediately. The mood is somber in CM's courtroom because a person is dead. You would have never known that half the time during the FCA trial.

The DT is burying CM but the judge is not stepping in to help him. Unlike JBP who held JB's hand the entire trial.

The most glaring difference (aside from the absurdity of FCA's DT) I see is the jury gets to hear expert testimony from beginning to end. They are not pop tarts, subjected to constant sidebars, etc. For the first time in my life I was ashamed of our judicial system during the FCA trial. The CM jury is taking lots of notes. The CM judge is showing the world how it's supposed to work in our country.

IMO

:goodpost: You've really captured the essence of what went wrong with the KC trial !! I hope there will be comparisons made for years to come and that history doesn't repeat itself ...