Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #14

[RANCH]

IIRC, he said it could be because the scent was on the surface and that surface was disturbed from the day before... (said in redirect with LDB)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6632143&postcount=19

Why would disturbing the soil make the decomp scent disappear? Is he saying that they removed all of the soil that had the scent on it? Or is he saying that they buried all of the soil that had decomp scent on it? Did LE ever find any forensic evidence in the soil to back up the initial dog hit? His explanation leaves me wondering if the hit made was a false alert. MOO.

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't agree I think to quote George's statement
his daughter "lives on the edge," and "takes things as far as she can take them." Just like that day she led police around Universal...the events of June 16th were exactly the living on the edge type situation. Casey was left alone with Caylee after GA took care of her all morning before going to work. She was faced with the only person who she could pass her off for the night with was Cindy (and she owes her, right?) so it was either suffocation or Cindy. I think all she took with her was her shoeless kid, her lingerie bag and duct tape and took off in the car and headed toward Gentiva. The thing that most makes me think she did it in the car was the doll. It was still in there when recovered and Caylee took her everywhere. She was probably holding it as Casey grabbed her.

I think George's idea of living on the edge was more about her habit of lying than anything else. I don't believe he thought his daughter did anything criminal - just constantly pushed the limits of her parents. Constantly.

Sure, she could have grabbed her and put her in the car - or since Caylee trusted and loved her - she could have pretended to go to work, driven around until George left, and Caylee fell asleep, so when she took her out of the car again, she just didn't bother to pick up the baby doll.

Although her cell phone and computer activity indicates she didn't leave the house at all, and George was mistaken about that day. And that doesn't surprise me. We know how often witness statements are incorrect, so add shock and the circumstances to it - I'd guess the odds rise to 100% that he was just wrong.

 

[logicalgirl]

Why would disturbing the soil make the decomp scent disappear? Is he saying that they removed all of the soil that had the scent on it? Or is he saying that they buried all of the soil that had decomp scent on it? Did LE ever find any forensic evidence in the soil to back up the initial dog hit? His explanation leaves me wondering if the hit made was a false alert. MOO.

Agree Ranch - that's a curious one.

 

[logicalgirl]

I deleted my earlier post to you...sorry about that....

My take, as a former LE, I would exect that he clearly knew that this was a bad situation, and that his daughter was in deep water.

I don't believe now that CA / GA thought she worked at Universal.

CA: No money no future (from her myspace post to OCA) those are not words from someone who thinks their daughter is a busy event planner for a major company.

my head hurts when I think about all this. Its just so much...still.

Oh I think she had CA convinced - remember the 31 days when she was apparently off doing event planning and the intricate stories and the Nanny and her sister and mother.
Maybe they just though she had no savings, no home, and spent way past whatever she earned.

 

[logicalgirl]

I would not rely on CNN reports for accuracy if I were you...

Here are the dog handlers testimony regarding the cadaver dog searches-
transcribed by our members verbatim during the trial.

Jason Forgey -post #17 covers the search by Gerus.
Jason Forgey testimony (OCSO dog handler of Gerus and Bones) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Kristin Brewer -post #5 covers the search by BOnes
Kristen Brewer testimony (OCSD cadaver dog handler) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thank you - I did not rely on CNN - I both read and watched the videos of the actual testimony two days ago.

 

[Spice]

This is something that I have wondered about also because why else did FCA borrow the shovel.
But, and forgive me, the testimony was that by day 3, there was enough decomp fluid that some stained the car trunk - so even after two days, in the Florida heat, excelerated by the bagging, moving Caylee's body from the trunk to the backyard by the pool and then to the playhouse would have been - well - difficult.....

The testimony was that the experts said the little body was in the car 2.5 to 3 days, which was long enough to have the smell of decomp in the trunk...forever. So.....:waitasec:

I think she borrowed it to try and use it to move Caylee's body or bury it. Somewhere a long the line she decided against it for whatever reasons. That shovel never touched her trunk or the bag that Caylee's body was in or there would have been at least a smidgen or forensics on it.

I think she intended to use it in some way, she had no plan after she killed Caylee, which is why she ended up driving around with her for a week. She had no clue what to do and only placed her in the woods after the smell became unbearable.

Sick.

 

[cityslick]

If she does live there, I am sure she is not wearing a sandwich board and ringing a bell every time she comes and goes. She is the most hated person in America. If she was staying there, I highly doubt anyone figure it out right away.

BBM

No she's not. She's the most ignored person in America. American society as a whole does usually focus hate on one individual for long periods of time, they just ignore after awhile.

 

[Spice]

BBM

No she's not. She's the most ignored person in America. American society as a whole does usually focus hate on one individual for long periods of time, they just ignore after awhile.

I beg to differ. OJ had drinks dumped over his head and "murderer" screamed at him in public for the remainder of his miserable life and he was a celebrated athlete. Let Casey walk around in public like an everyday person and see what kind vitriol she faces from the American public.

There is a reason that an attention addict like her has been basically in hiding since the verdict.

People hate her.

 

[Steely Dan]

Have you ever seen that TV "Lie to Me" about a group of people who catch people in lies? I would love for someone who does these types of analysis to go through those jail videos. Her body language is all over the place in those videos.

You need to take into account that she was extremely frushtrated at the time.

I don't know why I torture myself but I went back and listened to some portions of the trial. 31 days. Trunk of KC's car. Duct-tape. End of story.Just seeing the defense stooping to the lowest levels during trial just made me so mad..my face got flushed and my pulse rate went up! All the hard work and all those experts sitting and explaining to a mind-numbingly dull jury. The verdict is still so difficult to digest. How to make sense of the senseless?

Back during the trial I loved Judge Perry and overlooked many of the blunders caused by him. Now I'm able to see things more clearly. He really did a poor job and catered to the defense pretty much every week. I don't think ANYTHING would have given us a different verdict. This jury was like that. The Judge still had his duties and he didn't fulfil them.

And by the way, the prosecution had every reason to snicker and laugh. The defense, the jury and even the judge all combined together = nothing but a circus.

I don't blame HHJBP. He was doing what he had to do to ensure the defense couldn't get an appeal. IMO, it was the prosecutions fault. In addition to missing the searches AZ and JWG found they made other mistakes too. One that comes off the top of my head is pushing and pushing the chloroform and then never telling the jury where they found it and where she got it from. I know they didn't know that, but they had a strong enough case without it. It was too tenuous without link to KC and some chloroform. JMO

Eeew. Check your computer for infections.

Yeah, STD's mainly. JMO

 

[Steely Dan]

There is no security guard per se. There is a security code operated gate, with a guard house, but it is always empty.

I go into Ocean Woods twice a day; funny some one claims she is walking a dog. I am a dog walker, and I have a client that lives in Ocean Woods, and I walk their dogs twice a day. I have had this client for almost two years, and I know most the residents (at least those who also walk their dogs) and I haven't noticed anyone new or different. If she is there, and wearing a different disguise every night, that would cause her to stand out. Ocean Woods, for the most part, is a close knit community, and everyone knows everyone else. For the first few months I was constantly challenged by residents who wanted to know who I was, and did I live there, and have permission tobe walking through. Now they know me.

If you see her, you need to go up to her and say; "Oh, you're looking really good. After all you've been through I'm surprised you look so good. Oh, by the way, how's your daughter?"

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I mean no disrespect at all Gnatcatcher, but I hear this question often - where were her shoes?:what:

If you were a mother who was about to kill your child - would you make sure she had her shoes on? Why does anyone think she was wearing shoes or should have been wearing shoes. We pretty much agree Caylee was killed in the Anthony home or property, right?

So Caylee was running around barefoot in the house, or she was having a nap and had just gotten up - FCA decided to kill her - why would she bother with shoes?

No offense taken whatsoever, and thanks for bringing it up, I should really clarify I guess. I don't think I really meant to ask where the shoes were to find out an answer. I guess what I meant was, in relation to Casey's story about the kidnapping, where does she THINK the shoes would be explained as being? I mean, does that make sense? She had an answer for everything else, why not a prepared answer for why no shoes were found with the body? Oh nevermind, I'm just so annoyed with her and the whole thing and I'm getting riled up (not at you, I mean just at her!).

 

[joypath]

If you see her, you need to go up to her and say; "Oh, you're looking really good. After all you've been through I'm surprised you look so good. Oh, by the way, how's your daughter?"

OH......I think I'd be just a bit "witchier" and ask how the "Irish baby adoption" was going and if she was having any problems with the "language barrier" that she worried about (remember: she was fearful that she might not understand an "Irish" speaking baby!)....:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[FaerieB]

Okay, I'm back after a self-imposed vacay. The 'news' (though not new news to us) triggered a deep anger and frustration in me that I needed to come to terms with before I could trust myself to speak in public again.

Going to try to catch up on what I missed and jump back in where I can. LOL!

 

[wonders]

Okay, I'm back after a self-imposed vacay. The 'news' (though not new news to us) triggered a deep anger and frustration in me that I needed to come to terms with before I could trust myself to speak in public again.

Going to try to catch up on what I missed and jump back in where I can. LOL!

Welcome back FaerieB. It's gets rough sometime's and I don't think there is a one of us who dosen't understand.

 

[RR0004]

I think George's idea of living on the edge was more about her habit of lying than anything else. I don't believe he thought his daughter did anything criminal - just constantly pushed the limits of her parents. Constantly.

Sure, she could have grabbed her and put her in the car - or since Caylee trusted and loved her - she could have pretended to go to work, driven around until George left, and Caylee fell asleep, so when she took her out of the car again, she just didn't bother to pick up the baby doll.

Although her cell phone and computer activity indicates she didn't leave the house at all, and George was mistaken about that day. And that doesn't surprise me. We know how often witness statements are incorrect, so add shock and the circumstances to it - I'd guess the odds rise to 100% that he was just wrong.

I might believe that George was just "simply" mistaken if it wasn't for Cindy coaching him. lol

 

[logicalgirl]

I remember reading for sure that LE quoted 5 to 7 days due to the stages of the larvae and flies. I'll look for it, but I remember that specifically because it shocked me that she could drive around with her for that long.

No - sorry - but for the same reasons - it is forever branded into my brain - 2.5 - 3 days. She may however have continued to drive the car for a week after she dumped little Caylee's body.

There are a lot of "facts" you could suggest that I wouldn't argue with because I'd have to go back and check to be sure, but I am sure about this. The experts also said the body would be completely skeletonized within 2 weeks.

 

[logicalgirl]

I might believe that George was just "simply" mistaken if it wasn't for Cindy coaching him. lol

LOL - Cindy and her coaching - we don't trust anything because of her. But I don't think she was coaching him about these points - he seemed to truly believe that's what and when he last saw Caylee.IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

Okay, I'm back after a self-imposed vacay. The 'news' (though not new news to us) triggered a deep anger and frustration in me that I needed to come to terms with before I could trust myself to speak in public again.

Going to try to catch up on what I missed and jump back in where I can. LOL!

There's been a few of us who have joined you. I get to the point I think my head is going to come apart and I have to take a couple of weeks off and not come on site at all. Just for my own stress levels.

 

[krkrjx]

True.

IMO perhaps duct tape across Caylee's face might conflict with several aspects of the actual point of throwing a child into the pool to drown her, n'est-ce pas?

IMO the pool may not have been involved in Caylee's death. I'm thinking sedation plus duct tape, and am undecided on whether Caylee was completely deceased when placed in the plastic bags and/or in the trunk.

Just a thought: The pool did figure in some interaction between FCA, CA, and Caylee on the evening of the 15th. We heard that FCA returned to the home to find CA and Caylee in the pool. There was some testimony about Caylee being cold IIRC? And CA handing her off to FCA? Then Caylee being bathed in the house I believe? Maybe there was some drama upon FCA's return? Drama which occurred at/near the pool, or related to the conversation about whether FCA would join them in the pool, or whether Caylee should get out? Could this have triggered an "unfit mom" confrontation?

<sigh> Then there was the subsequent "gate found open and pool ladder attached" bunny trail...

I agree Caylee was not drowned. You can't drown if your airways are covered with duct tape, and if Casey drowned Caylee there would be no need for the duct tape. I think Caylee was killed by duct tape applied over her airways for the purpose of killing her. I used to consider the possibility the tape was there to keep Caylee quiet if she woke up but she ended up dying instead, but I no longer even consider that given the computer search for "fool-proof suffication" that Casey did shortly before following through with a willful act of murder.

The pool was there, and I think a lot of defense attorneys might have tried to use it to their advantage. Kids do drown in pools. Not with duct tape on their faces but hey, Caylee didn't exactly have a face when she was found so the tape could no longer be stuck to her face anymore. It would require common sense to understand that the tape had been stuck when she had a face but sadly, common sense is anything but common these days.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

If you see her, you need to go up to her and say; "Oh, you're looking really good. After all you've been through I'm surprised you look so good. Oh, by the way, how's your daughter?"

This reminds me of a clip I saw only once a long time ago. OJ had the gall to go out on a golf course within a few short of months of being acquitted. This woman ran up behind him with a huge smile, I mean running toward him like a crazed fan with a big smile and stopped him and asked to shake his hand, it was like she was in love with him! His response was probably as it had been all his celebrated life - that of a big shot, he stopped, shook her hand with a smile as though he was the greatest thing on earth, and she suddenly stopped smiling and said right to his face something like I always wanted to know what it would be like to shake the hand of a murderer. It took him by surprise, and I wanted to find her and run up to HER to shake HER hand. It was brilliant.