Simple question...

[BBB167893]

This is where you fail. Its all important when we don't understand the process. And I know you don't understand the process because of all those unanswered questions. I think you're saying the process doesn't matter, only the outcome.

What I'm saying is that, in the interests of justice, I'm willing to let some things stay a mystery. I consider that a small price to pay when the issue is a child's death.

Sometimes I think you've lost perspective, HOTYH. And your seeming (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) concern for the rights of the suspects over those of the victims is HIGHLY troubling to me.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

What I'm saying is that, in the interests of justice, I'm willing to let some things stay a mystery. I consider that a small price to pay when the issue is a child's death.

No, you're willing to let a LOT of things stay a mystery. Thats my point.

Sometimes I think you've lost perspective, HOTYH. And your seeming (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) concern for the rights of the suspects over those of the victims is HIGHLY troubling to me.

Thats easy. JR and PR are victims, not suspects. Consider that for more than a few seconds.

 

[BBB167893]

No, you're willing to let a LOT of things stay a mystery. Thats my point.

Let me rephrase: only a few things are mysterious to me.

Thats easy. JR and PR are victims, not suspects.

Yeah, I FIGURED that would be your answer! And quite frankly, I think that's DAMNED insulting to the real victims out there. At this point, there really aren't too many things about this case that can push my "berserk button," but that's one of them.

Consider that for more than a few seconds.

Have you forgotten who you're talking to?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Let me rephrase: only a few things are mysterious to me.

Like who killed JBR?

Yeah, I FIGURED that would be your answer! And quite frankly, I think that's DAMNED insulting to the real victims out there. At this point, there really aren't too many things about this case that can push my "berserk button," but that's one of them.

Oh, thats not my answer--thats the OFFICIAL answer. Dont take my word for it, check the news now and then.

Have you forgotten who you're talking to?

Have you?

 

[BBB167893]

Like who killed JBR?

Speaking purely for myself, HOTYH, that's not the least bit mysterious. I have my reasons.

Oh, thats not my answer--thats the OFFICIAL answer.

Like ol' Yogi says, it ain't over till it's over.

Dont take my word for it, check the news now and then.

You said it yourself, friend: that doesn't make it the RIGHT answer.

Have you?

What's THAT supposed to mean? You told me to consider the Rs as victims for more than a few seconds. I simply sought to remind you that I used to be hardcore IDI.

 

[BBB167893]

But RDI, not to be fooled, astutely recognized that the ligature was found loose around her wrist with no wrist marks, and therefore could only be staging.

Just for the record, it was NOT "RDI" who recognized that.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Speaking purely for myself, HOTYH, that's not the least bit mysterious. I have my reasons.

Oh yeah? For the record, then, who killed JBR?

Like ol' Yogi says, it ain't over till it's over.

That means that for now, you're a renegade. And your cause is not supported. Not even by the tabs.

What's THAT supposed to mean? You told me to consider the Rs as victims for more than a few seconds. I simply sought to remind you that I used to be hardcore IDI.

As far as justice is concerned, when public sentiment and popularity become more valuable than content, its a long road back. I can tell from your posts that public sentiment carries more weight than content. "...concern for the rights of the suspects over those of the victims..." are very nice and popular words when you already know who are the suspects and who are the victims.

 

[BBB167893]

Oh yeah? For the record, then, who killed JBR?

Are you asking my opinion?

That means that for now, you're a renegade. And your cause is not supported. Not even by the tabs.

Is that supposed to bother me? I think my signature says it all. I've been a renegade my whole life. "Renegade..." has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

As far as justice is concerned, when public sentiment and popularity become more valuable than content, its a long road back.

Agreed.

I can tell from your posts that public sentiment carries more weight than content.

If you think THAT, you don't know a THING about me.

"...concern for the rights of the suspects over those of the victims..." are very nice and popular words when you already know who are the suspects and who are the victims.

Even so, that's not why I hold the rights of victims in higher regard than those of suspects. I do it because it's the only thing a man like myself can do.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Even so, that's not why I hold the rights of victims in higher regard than those of suspects. I do it because it's the only thing a man like myself can do.

Whereas I presume innocence until proven guilty. The R's can be treated as suspects AND as victims, but not by you. .

There is a really long list of unanswered questions. Therefore, your case has no content. It relied on a public sentiment that no longer exists.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Are you asking my opinion?

Sure. What is your opinion, for the record, on who killed JBR?

 

[Ravyn]

The paintbrush was broken at both ends, and the 2nd ligature had three loops and two knots. You don't even know why. You don't even understand how these weapons were used. - hotyh

heyya hotyh.

I was recently watching LS reenactment of the strangulation, in which he asked his companion to double loop the ligature around his neck, and mock strangle him. Is that what you're referring to?
Can you expand on your comment.
Ravyn and I were discussing method, and I wondered why there would not be two rope indentations if LS suggested method was the case.

Erotic asphyxiation is a person who is sexually aroused by bringing his or her victim to the point of death, or asphyxiation and other forms of deviant sexual torture.This most likely what LS was thinking,but hard to say....Just been researching this....Also been researching to see if this was bad in the armed forces...But so far this happens alot,so an accident can happen very easy with this method....

 

[DeeDee249]

Holdon is right about it being the "official" designation for the Rs as victims, not suspects. And that was what prevented this case from being solved from Day 1. It was "official" only in the aspect of the DA being told by the Governor's office (who in turn took it from the defense team, who were political contributors) and so the "word" came down to "treat these people like victims, not suspects".
This was NOT what the police wanted to do. As a matter of fact, protocol says that anyone in a present in a house at the time one of the residents is found dead in that house, especially when they are known to be present at the time the deceased actually was killed, must be considered a suspect. Not necessarily the ONLY suspect, but suspect none the less.
The Rs were not suspects ONLY because the police were not allowed to consider them as such.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The Rs were not suspects ONLY because the police were not allowed to consider them as such.

What?!?

This is ridiculous. The R's were not suspects?

Provide mouth swabs, clothing, and handwriting samples from both hands writing the RN word for word. Submit yourself to hours and hours of questioning from detectives, and then tell me you're not feeling like a suspect.

 

[DeeDee249]

What?!?

This is ridiculous. The R's were not suspects?

Provide mouth swabs, clothing, and handwriting samples from both hands writing the RN word for word. Submit yourself to hours and hours of questioning from detectives, and then tell me you're not feeling like a suspect.

That umbrella of suspicion had a lot of holes in it.
Anyone else (without those connections) found to have been present at the time their child had been killed, and caught trying to make arrangements for a flight outta Dodge would have been arrested that night and questioned separately.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That umbrella of suspicion had a lot of holes in it.
Anyone else (without those connections) found to have been present at the time their child had been killed, and caught trying to make arrangements for a flight outta Dodge would have been arrested that night and questioned separately.

Having problems with rich, influential people?

Its been so long I think you're forgetting the R's WERE treated as suspects, and not victims. Now, in retrospect, it seems they should have been treated as victims instead. I wonder why JR doesn't sue Boulder for the umbrella of suspicion that was handed to them.

 

[BBB167893]

Whereas I presume innocence until proven guilty.

Don't twist it, HOTYH. That's not what I'm talking about at all. There's "innocent until proven guilty," and then there's the kind of Twilight-Zone kind of thinking that dominates certain quarters of the legal profession where it's "even if you ARE proven guilty, you're still innocent, because every cop and prosecutor is a lying, unethical fascist bulldog." My best suggestion would be to visit my post about the Warren Court on the "If the Rs confessed" thread. That might help explain it.

The R's can be treated as suspects AND as victims,

Fair enough.

but not by you.

Like I've said a million times, HOTYH: I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

There is a really long list of unanswered questions.

We can only do our best.

Therefore, your case has no content.

Not to you, anyway.

It relied on a public sentiment that no longer exists.

Shall we put that to a vote?

Sure. What is your opinion, for the record, on who killed JBR?

PR. And you don't know how much it pains me to say that. But we've always been honest with each other. You asked, I answered.

 

[BBB167893]

Holdon is right about it being the "official" designation for the Rs as victims, not suspects. And that was what prevented this case from being solved from Day 1. It was "official" only in the aspect of the DA being told by the Governor's office (who in turn took it from the defense team, who were political contributors) and so the "word" came down to "treat these people like victims, not suspects".

Sadly, that seems to be the majority opinion among those who were there.

The Rs were not suspects ONLY because the police were not allowed to consider them as such.

It might be better to say that the police did not treat them as suspects normally would be treated.

 

[cynic]

If the missing pieces represent my unanswered questions, then the existing pieces represent answered questions? I don't think so. Its ridiculous, a joke.

The existing pieces are not representative of answers to any of your questions, I’m sure, but they are representative of evidence that that points to the Ramsey’s in general and PR in particular.

Cina Wong contributed 243 pieces to my puzzle.

Cina Wong was hired to do work for Wolf's civil suit.
Her analysis concluded that it was "highly probable" that Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note. She said there are over 243 points of similarity between a sample of Patsy Ramsey's writings and the ransom notes. "There are so many unique similarities between both writings."

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

PR. And you don't know how much it pains me to say that. But we've always been honest with each other. You asked, I answered.

I don't know how much it pains you. Are you going to share that in your book?

Given that in your opinion PR did it, how does JR fit in? Did he know ahead of time (premeditated murder), did he find out as it was going on and help stage a coverup, did he find out later, or is he innocent? IYO?

 

[cynic]

Cynic,

A while back you asked me to let you know when I have something.

I later posted that I knew of a suspect already named here on WS, and asked you to look up and ask me some random killer profiles from JR, FBI profilers, or your own ideas. I can then tell you if its a hit, miss, or neither.

Judging from your recent post, I'd wonder that any discussion that isn't RDI is wasted on you.

Are you asking me to name the suspect that you are thinking of?