SM as a potential focus of the investigation

[xosugar]

Jaycee Dugard's stepfather was the last known person to have seen her. Just saying.

True. But he also offered up what happened. He said two people threw her into their car and took off, and gave descriptions. Kyron seems to have vanished into thin air and supposedly the cell phone pings don't match where she says she was.

 

[Donjeta]

I see it a little differently. I just waved goodbye to my son----I was in my kitchen looking out of the window, and he was walking toward his place of business. There are other pedestrians out there, too, but I have no idea if they are noticing my son or not. If he were to disappear, I might be the last person to have seen him. But that doesn't mean I was with him.

But didn't Terri say that she was with Kyron before she waved him goodbye and he left for class? At least that's the impression I got.

If they were touring the school separately and Terri can't witness to where Kyron was, what he did and who he talked to before she last saw him at 8:45 it gives an unknown perp a far bigger window of opportunity to talk to him and lure him to his destiny.

 

[tlcya]

True. But he also offered up what happened. He said two people threw her into their car and took off, and gave descriptions. Kyron seems to have vanished into thin air and supposedly the cell phone pings don't match where she says she was.

Yup, he offered up what happened, having witnessed it with his own eyes, and still was suspected as having been involved in Jaycee's disappearance. Image had he not witnessed it, what sort of scrutiny would he have endured then?

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Jaycee Dugard's stepfather was the last known person to have seen her. Just saying.

i think gates should have said "Terri is the last KNOWN person to have seen Kyron.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

True. But he also offered up what happened. He said two people threw her into their car and took off, and gave descriptions. Kyron seems to have vanished into thin air and supposedly the cell phone pings don't match where she says she was.

do we have a link regarding these cell phone pings?

edit: i found an article citing anonymous sources. http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06...yron-horman-focuses-on-step-mom-cell-records/

 

[tlcya]

I feel badly for LE and families when this sort of case comes up. In this age of "instant information" and "up to the minute news" every single word, tone, and phrasing choice becomes foddor for us here at WS. People literally have to watch their every single word lest it be analysed and/or misconstrued and given either more or less significance than the speaker intended.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Picking apart the same limited facts is driving us to distraction here.

We are picking apart limited facts and reading quite a bit into each one.

All 4 parents are waiting to find out what happened to Kyron. The stress must be unimaginable. Only they know what they are doing to pass the time besides helping LE by cooperating with them.

Those of us who participate on message boards and blogs and internet newspaper comment sections are passing the time by posting our analysis and opinions.

Everyone is waiting to find out where Kyron is and how he got there.

None of us, not the family, not the friends, not the community members, not the media readers and watchers, not the message board participants -- none of us -- can do anything physically productive to find Kyron.

Why is there limited information? Because LE wants it that way.

Why isn't the family participating in actual searches? Because LE wants it that way.

Why isn't the local public participating in organized searches beyond their personal property and buildings? Because LE wants it that way.

Why were the questionnaires publicized and distributed? Because LE wants it that way.

Why does the public suspect SM/TH/Terri? Because LE wants it that way.

 

[TxLady2]

has someone already posted the link to the friend of Terri speaking out again?

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96769584.html?tab=video

I have a bunch to say on it.
first.... she says she went to the gym because she needed to to keep herself healthy and focused.
OK. I know this isn't the same, but when my daughter was a baby she got cancer. I was terrified for her. About 3 days in I saw my sister who reminded me that I had not eaten. I couldn't even think about myself in that situation... I was so worried about my child. (who is now healthy. thank god)

Of course I know that is not the same situation, and that everyone handles stress and fear and heartbreak differently.

Another thing the friend said was that all the online talk was damaging. It is not damaging if there is no truth to the accusations. If she has no role in it, she should not have any fear that these comments could damage her innocence.

Per the bolded: Yes, it can be damaging, because there are those who will inevitably believe the rumors, despite them being proven wrong. It's just human nature. It damages her own self-image to see or hear the terrible things written about her, even though she knows it isn't true, and can prove it, those things are still there and can't be unsaid. Even if everyone who said anything negative about her gave her a public apology... it would not erase what was done. You cannot unring a bell.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

i think gates should have said "Terri is the last KNOWN person to have seen Kyron.

I think so too. In a case of a missing child, the last known person to have seen them is not always the last person to have seen the child alive.

The last person to have seen the child alive is either the person who has the child in his possession, or the person who killed the child.

 

[2goldfish]

Great post!!!

...also by looking at all the information regarding TH don't you think she may be beating herself up for not walking him all the way to his classroom? Feels responsible... Think about it. The poor girl is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't...

Hopefully as time goes by people will quit pointing fingers and start doing something positive. Not one of us is a perfect parent and to point fingers at someone else without any CONFIRMED REASON is wrong. That family deserves support to help find their missing child. With all the LE involved there is no way somebody could fool them - give the professionals some credit.

So today is Monday and a new week! Let's focus on where Kyron could be instead of what TH did wrong... Lets have some compassion here instead of slinging so much mud. We really don't know what happened...

ITA because we just dont know anything yet do we. I'm teetering on the fence cause I been reading here waaaay too long and I know parent/step-parent is often involved. they are the first people LE look at. if LE hasnt said anything, then I dont yet have a reason to stare at someone with nasty thoughts.

this is how mobs get going.....problem is sometimes, often, the mob is not correct. better to let a guilty be glossed over then an innocent slaughtered I always say.

 

[xosugar]

Yup, he offered up what happened, having witnessed it with his own eyes, and still was suspected as having been involved in Jaycee's disappearance. Image had he not witnessed it, what sort of scrutiny would he have endured then?

He was scrutinized. I don't think anyone believed him, he was a suspect up until they found her. I'm just saying that he at least was able to say something happened, gave details, a description of the car and the couple who took her. Plus she was taken on a street, not vanished from the halls of a school. His story is more believable IMO.

 

[TheCynic]

At first, I didn't suspect TH. <edited: removed references to social networking site>

Then, I saw her in the press conferences, and I changed my mind. This is purely speculative, but she looks guilty to me. Maybe she just feels guilty because she thinks she should have been able to prevent this - like any other parent would - who knows. But my gut says otherwise. Combined with:

1) last known person to see Kyron; short window of time before he had to be in class
2) white truck/female driver spotted by neighbor *before* kyron was known missing
3) reported miscommunication with teacher about future appointment
4) reported email to teacher to ask a question about picking up science project (did she communicate frequently this way with teachers?)
5) statistically more likely than stranger abduction
6) <edited: removed references to social networking site>
7) <edited: removed references to social networking site>
8) new child now on the scene; oldest recently sent to live with grandparents
9) questionnaire by law enforcement and latest press conference: to me, the tone seemed to have definitely changed; not so protective anymore, IMO; questionnaire obviously interested in TH movements.

None of these things individually is damning; it's the totality of everything that points me in her direction. MOO

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I feel badly for LE and families when this sort of case comes up. In this age of "instant information" and "up to the minute news" every single word, tone, and phrasing choice becomes foddor for us here at WS. People literally have to watch their every single word lest it be analysed and/or misconstrued and given either more or less significance than the speaker intended.

I have wondered, during the years I lurked and the years I have been a member here, what would happen to me if my child went missing and the case was discussed here. I would be factually innocent, of course.

I came to the conclusion that I would have to come here for help and ideas if there was not a speedy resolution. First, I would talk to Tricia and tell her everything I knew and give her proof that I was telling the truth, if proof were available.

Aside from that, I would be very careful of what I said to both LE and the media. I would give LE the information they needed to know.

I would hire an attorney to represent me, if I could afford to.

I would tell them where I had been, who I had been in contact with, and what I had been doing during the time period in question.

I would give them a list of everyone my child and family knows, and a description of the relationship.

I would tell them places my child and family frequent, in case the perp was associated with one of them.

What I would not do is give anyone information to hang me with, including LE, if I were innocent and it did not have a direct bearing on the case.

I would not take a polygraph. If they aren't reliable enough for the results to be admissible in court, they are not reliable enough for me to take my chances.

I would not give LE the right to search my home, my computer, my vehicle, or anything at all unless they had a warrant.

I would appear before the media to ask for my child's return and to talk to my child, in case s/he could hear me, to reassure them that they are loved and wanted and that people are looking for them. I would thank LE, the searchers, and the public. I would urge anyone who knew anything to tell the police.

I would participate in searches and search for my child myself, no matter what anyone else told me to do, unless they could stop me or LE had an extremely good reason for me not doing so.

I would find someone to talk to IRL as I went through this who is required by law to keep client confidences: a therapist or a pastor.

 

[watchful_eye]

No problem. Noted for future I need to be more careful.

The Article I posted earlier notes Terri's DUI:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html

The fact that Terri wound up marrying her friend's former husband is well, interesting. Doesn't mean she hurt anyone, but just interesting. She also has been married a few times, which isn't a crime, but it may show instability in her relationships. The DUI with the child in the car is frankly, pretty awful, IMO.
Doesn't mean she hurt Kyron, but it is a character flaw.

I don't like that this article is painting them out to be some perfect family. No one is perfect.

 

[angelmom]

5 independent sources came up with the same rumor? That's quite a coincidence.

Word gets around the police department very fast. Williamette week... which is, again, a newspaper... had five... again, FIVE... independent LE sources tell them the same thing.

It wasn't something they just heard from "someone."

It would be remiss to label it a rumor. Unless you really think that "started on an unmoderated forum" and information from 5 LE are the exact same thing.

Just b/c a rumor spread around the dept. and some of those people repeated it doesn't make it true. Last week there were at least 5 saying that Kyron's body had been found. One claimed to have been a member of the fire department, one claimed to have been a searcher in the area. I think we all believe by now that that isn't true.

Even the CBS story uses the "reportedly" when discussing the pings. I think LE would be remiss NOT to have looked at her cell phone records and matched them up to where she said she was, but I haven't seen anything credible to say there is a discrepancy.

 

[sneezy]

Just a couple of things that stick out to me and don't stick out

Family/friends/anyone remotely related searching, you don't want someone who is directly involved helping....say the perp left the body at point A but has an item of the victim's in his posession...He "finds" said posession at Point B where he is "searching" with police.

Now point B becomes the focus of the investigation, however, in the true scheme of things, Point B is irrelevant to the crime. The evidence found there was planted. This contaminates the site and corrupts the investigation.

I have no problem with family not searching.

TH reportedly last sees Kyron at 845....the next known time info we have is that she updated her facebook at 1:21 pm. that gives a "blank" in her time line of 4 hours and 41 minutes. Now, if her picture post from facebook was a "mobile upload" the "blank space" until we can confirm somone saw her moves to 3:30pm another 2 hours and 9 minutes...a total of 6 hours and 50 minutes.

The first reported sighting of the white truck on the dead end street was at 3pm. It's not far from NW 6th Avenue to the Horman home. IF (just putting out a theory here) it was TH there is plenty of time to be seen on 6th Ave when the white truck was seen and make it home again before the bus comes at 3:30.

If what is reported is correct, that the cell phone pings were not where TH said she was...you have to look at why she did not tell the truth as to her whereabouts. This to me is a big red "look at me arrow". Think about it, if all she claims she did was "grab a gallon of milk, run to the cleaners and grab lunch"(My examples)...then why do the pings place her elsewhere? Why would she deny being where the pings place her? This is the one thing that has turned my thinking. If you "run errands" you have no reason to lie, but if you're somewhere where you don't want people to know you were, you lie. This bothers me.

Additionally, if she was running errands as she claimed, would some of the places she stopped have video evidence of her being there? Why hasn't this been brought to the forefront?

Then the question of not one, but 2 polygraphs. I can only think of 2 reasons why you would need 2. A) you passed the first but they came up with additional questions B) you failed and they are looking at you harder.

I HATE thinking that someone so close to Kyron could do such a thing....but there is an open spot in her time frame. even if you count the facebook update, there is still 4 hours and 41 minutes that needs to be accounted for, more than enough time for the unthinkable to occur and to still be where we "know" her to have been. IF the Facebook update was from a cell phone it moves up to over six hours of time where her actual whereabouts are unknown except for the fact that her cell phone places her where she did not claim to be.

You have to look at Means, Motive and Opportunity.

Means--unknown we do not know what actually happened to Kyron
Motive--unknown
Opportunity--we know that of the people closest to Kyron, TH had approximately 4 hours and 41 minutes up to 6 hours and 50 minutes of time that currently are unaccounted for/she was not where she claimed to be.

Right now, this is all they have to go on and they have to explore it fully.

Just my thoughts. I'm not saying TH had anything to do with Kyron disappearing, just that you have to investigate everything.

 

[LaLaw2000]

IIRC, LE wanted any tapes and/or witnesses having seen TH and Kyron together as well as the white truck on June 3 and June 4th. I am just thinking that maybe no one even saw Kyron at school the morning of the 4th. As far as I can tell, the focus is on TH and Kyron, the white truck, and June 3 & 4.

We all have our different opinions on what we think means something. I just seriously doubt that LE or the newspapers are handing TH a big winning liable suit. So, IMO, LE has their reasons for whatever they may do in this investigation. Newspapers print news. If friends of TH speak out to any reporter, he/she has the right to the story.

I would so like to see Kyron be located.

 

[stmarysmead]

It's been a very long time...but I will always remember the reaction of Adam Walsh and his wife to their son's disappearance.

Frantic, and not knowing how or why he could not be found they implored him, "Look for landmarks, Adam."

They were covering every possibility...even helping the little guy find his way home or to an authority figure if he had just wandered away.

I realize every family is different...but how different? Don't we all run out of a house during a fire? Don;t we all have a frantic, desperate need to find what is lost...most especially OUR CHILD?

This is why the quiet, the inaction of this family in the first days unnerves me.

No authority figure could keep me from trying anything, everything to bring my child home.

 

[awakewriter]

It's been a very long time...but I will always remember the reaction of Adam Walsh and his wife to their son's disappearance.

Frantic, and not knowing how or why he could not be found they implored him, "Look for landmarks, Adam."

They were covering every possibility...even helping the little guy find his way home or to an authority figure if he had just wandered away.

I realize every family is different...but how different? Don't we all run out of a house during a fire? Don;t we all have a frantic, desperate need to find what is lost...most especially OUR CHILD?

This is why the quiet, the inaction of this family in the first days unnerves me.

No authority figure could keep me from trying anything, everything to bring my child home.

It's possible they didn't make any appearances right away because LE didn't want frantic parents making statements, being on television.

They all looked scared shirtless during that first presser, for whatever reasons.

None of them were frantic, and I think it's highly improbable they all were involved in his disappearance.

 

[seeking truth]

i think gates should have said "Terri is the last KNOWN person to have seen Kyron.

Unless they have already solved the crime.

I think they have. I think that the questionnaires are to shore up things and also to put pressure on Terri.

This is my opinion.