Small Details that are interesting in the Cooper Harris case, #1

[AuburnTxTiger]

Well, if they weren't just using the new one (and leaving it at daycare), then it must have somewhat fit because LH had it in her car the two weeks before this happened (because of RH having the new bigger one in his car at that time). Maybe it wasn't as tight as I would imagine. I just saw that lower setting and can't figure out why neither LH or RH would have adjusted those straps to the higher setting at some point--even if it fit, it's a b**ch to get those things buckled when they're not set right.

I don't remember you posting during the lengthy car seat discussion either here or on the General Discussion Forum before it was closed. It was pages and pages and I think the car seat discussion went on for days and days. Then it was decided that a Car Seat Forum would be opened. Lots of us had your same concerns or similar concerns/questions before reading all the previous post. A few of those posting had the same car seat as Cooper. I have 24 mo old grandson and have a car seat for him in my SUV, but I would never try to install it or adjust it. That is a mommy or daddy job. Too complicated for me! I struggled very hard at first because I could not understand a mother or father deliberately hurting their child ( or any child). So, I know where you are coming from. Now I personally have seen too many unusual/strange statements/actions in this case to at least believe RH might have done this deliberately. BUT I will have to watch the trial to make a final decision if it was deliberate. For sure, his sexting and being preoccupied with his woman/women was negligence in my eyes. This case has hit close to home for me and my family because my grandson is 24 mo old.

 

[matou]

Ok! I wanna run and buy a paper and I don't have a car. Maybe I should just subscribe?
Ya know take one for the team?

All posts are MOO

YAY!!!! xo

 

[RANCH]

The small detail that I would like to know about is when was JRH read his rights? We know that he was cuffed and put into a police car at the scene and taken to the police station where he was questioned. Hours later he was arrested.

Did LE read him his rights when he was first detained and he waived his right to remain silent? Or did they remove the cuffs, make it clear that he was free to leave the police station and he then voluntarily answered LE questions without the Miranda warning being read to him?

I'm wondering if any incriminating statements JRH made to LE will be ruled inadmissible in court.

 

[Lovejac]

Evie, it's not a physical impossibility. I know the picture that's being shown is confusing because the straps are so short, but that's how it would be adjusted for a small newborn. All that needs to be done for a larger child to fit is have the straps lengthened, which just takes a moment. Cooper should not have been in a seat that small, he was over the height (and possibly weight) limit for that particular seat, but physically, he would still fit in it, and be able to be buckled, but in an accident, he would not be well protected.

Exactly. Here is a post from a member with the same car seat and a 21 month old son.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?249256-CAR-SEAT-discussion&p=10716077#post10716077

BTW, someone mentioned in the General thread that it would be impossible to secure the straps at the lowest setting. I didn't want to keep talking about the car seat over there, since we have this new thread, so I'll mention it here. That's not necessarily true. My son is 21 months and we have this same car seat (that he has outgrown). I moved the straps to the lowest setting and was able to get him in the seat and secure the straps at the lowest setting. I basically had no slack left in the harness and it was obvious that they were too low, but I was able to strap him in that way and my son is bigger than average. (He's more torso than leg)

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

And, if a child is buckled in with a car seat belt, I don't think the belt would hold a child in.

I really don't get it. RH was more concerned about a seat belt law than the fact his child was dead?

Why?

I think he knew Cooper was dead before he said he knew. I think he may have talked to someone, or taken time to sort things out before he made that stop. IOW, he had some time to think things out because I'm sure he knew he was up ***** creek, legally.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Well, if they weren't just using the new one (and leaving it at daycare), then it must have somewhat fit because LH had it in her car the two weeks before this happened (because of RH having the new bigger one in his car at that time). Maybe it wasn't as tight as I would imagine. I just saw that lower setting and can't figure out why neither LH or RH would have adjusted those straps to the higher setting at some point--even if it fit, it's a b**ch to get those things buckled when they're not set right.

I'm not sure if a link will work... But here's a similar car seat to his... Watch at 1:28... You push a button and pull and the straps pull out loose, so even though the straps were coming from low on CH's back (set for a newborn), it wasn't necessarily tight on him. If that makes sense. I know it's hard to understand if you're not used to car seats and using them often.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWZLlVZ9bI

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I'm not sure if a link will work... But here's a similar car seat to his... Watch at 1:28... You push a button and pull and the straps pull out loose, so even though the straps were coming from low on CH's back (set for a newborn), it wasn't necessarily tight on him. If that makes sense. I know it's hard to understand if you're not used to car seats and using them often.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnWZLlVZ9bI

And MOO, but the fact that the setting wasn't fit for Cooper still says a lot... I'm not sure what yet but it bothers me a lot. Ill save the rest of my thoughts for the car seat thread.

I'm editing to laugh at myself... I just realized I quoted myself somehow... lol

 

[DeDee]

RS&BBM
* If Cooper wasn't buckled in his seat, but was buckled in the back seat behind the driver instead, it would maybe explain why RH didn't see him when he forgot about him and got out of the car at work.

* Being buckled in the back seat would still leave his legs extended, and they could even have been bent.

* I think RH lied about the car seat and went into so much detail about it to LE because he was wanting to cover up the fact he broke the car seat law. Once he was charged with murder, the last thing he wants to do is to say he lied about anything that was initially said.

* My theory is that they forgot to get the car seat out of LH's car that morning and that he may have tried to use the small seat, but realized that wasn't going to work. I also wonder if the "get to work okay?" comment referred to how he made out without the car seat.

I'm sure if this actually did happen, it won't help his case very much, but it would be nice to know that he didn't kill his child on purpose. I actually think the whole distraction was cell phone related, and that there were other things going on that added to the end result.

eace:

A 22mo cannot be secured into the back seat using the factory installed seatbelt/shoulder harness because the shoulder harness cannot be placed at the proper position on the toddler's shoulder. A 22mo in a vehicle with only a cross-lap seat belt might last ten seconds before he's shimmied out and began scurrying around looking for his favorite red truck.

Sure a 22mo could have his knees bent with his feet dangling over the edge of the backseat if he was sitting near the edge of the seat.

Remember Detective Stoddard saying this @ PCH: Cooper's feet were up. To me, that means pointing skyward when placed on his back. Cooper was in the sitting position with his feet up in the air as his back was on the hot pavement. It will be interesting to know how far bent Cooper's knees had to be so his feet could be propped against the back of the Hyundai's rear seat so that the feet would be sticking up in the air during rigor when on the hot concrete.

Of course, because it rattles our faith in humanity, we want to believe this creep did not intentionally plan to leave his 22mo baby boy to sit enclosed in a hot car and suffer immeasurably until he died and then even longer. But we cannot let our faith color the truth of this grievous matter. It matters to Cooper. Do you think Cooper did not realize really how far from important and insignificant that he was while he was suffering and crying out his parents' names for help?

moo :dunno:

 

[PaperDoll]

Okay...I don't want anyone to think I'm defending RH in any way--I think he's a total idiot for allowing this to happen. If I ever knew him personally, I'm almost sure I wouldn't like him--even before this happened. But, at the same time I don't really think (right now anyways) that he intended to kill his son. This whole car seat thing is just one theory I've come up with to try to understand how a person could accidentally leave their child in the car.

* If Cooper wasn't buckled in his seat, but was buckled in the back seat behind the driver instead, it would maybe explain why RH didn't see him when he forgot about him and got out of the car at work.

* Being buckled in the back seat would still leave his legs extended, and they could even have been bent.

* I think RH lied about the car seat and went into so much detail about it to LE because he was wanting to cover up the fact he broke the car seat law. Once he was charged with murder, the last thing he wants to do is to say he lied about anything that was initially said.

* My theory is that they forgot to get the car seat out of LH's car that morning and that he may have tried to use the small seat, but realized that wasn't going to work. I also wonder if the "get to work okay?" comment referred to how he made out without the car seat.

I'm sure if this actually did happen, it won't help his case very much, but it would be nice to know that he didn't kill his child on purpose. I actually think the whole distraction was cell phone related, and that there were other things going on that added to the end result.

eace:

If Cooper wasn't strapped into his seat don't you think he would have been able to wiggle out of it? I'm sure he was trying hard to get out of that seat while dying and I don't think it would have been hard to do if he were not strapped in. This is just MOO!

 

[CHERIE.T]

RBBM


If Ross noticed his son, he would have seen Cooper's discolored skin, bloating, dampness: wet hair & clothing, hot to touch, stiff from rigor, redness from livor, w/blanching where the straps were tight across him. Cooper had fresh scratch marks on his perfect baby face. Cooper's blue eyes were open. His mouth was open with his once tiny pink, now blue, tongue protruding. Expect to see in the AR that the tip of Cooper's tongue had dried from exposure to air. None, absolutely none of those conditions, demonstrate Cooper could have been possibly been choking anytime within the past four to five hours because Cooper was already gone that long when he was "discovered".

Moo and all that jazz

A simple thanks isn't enough. :thumb:

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

****SNIPPED
I struggled very hard at first because I could not understand a mother or father deliberately hurting their child ( or any child). So, I know where you are coming from. Now I personally have seen too many unusual/strange statements/actions in this case to at least believe RH might have done this deliberately. BUT I will have to watch the trial to make a final decision if it was deliberate. For sure, his sexting and being preoccupied with his woman/women was negligence in my eyes. This case has hit close to home for me and my family because my grandson is 24 mo old.

Yep...lots of strange behaviors, statements, etc. I think there definitely have been a lot of lies to cover up some generally unacceptable behaviors. It will be interesting to see how significant the lies are, assuming they will be unfolded.

 

[gngr~snap]

YAY!!!! xo

Annnndddd........I'm IN!!!

Snap's summary of AJC coming soon.
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/toddler-dads-fate-rests-on-digital-sleuthing/ngm4x/

All posts are MOO

 

[SStarr33]

"When I got closer, I thought it was a doll. And about three or four feet away, I noticed it was the body of a toddler. Right then my heart dropped because I saw this precious boy laying there lifeless," Madden said. "The father, Mr. Ross, had just given his child CPR and about two other people came near to assist. As I got closer, you could just hear his cries and his desperate for his son to be revived. He was saying, 'Oh my god, oh my god. My son is dead. Oh my god, my son is dead.' It sounded as if he was saying it out of hurt and disappointment, desperation. He was yelling, he was hollering, he was screaming."

BBM.

This is the only person to have stated that RH gave Cooper CPR, correct?
If he is noting his approach to the scene, how can he speak to something that has ended? KWIM?

No, that is incorrect. According to Detective Stoddard, he is not the only one who stated that RH gave Cooper CPR.

 

[SStarr33]

Unless he were dead before being put in the seat. I don't think that is the case, but that would be a reason not to bother buckling him. A deceased baby wouldn't move all around the car. Again, I don't believe this what happened but I'm glad people asked the question because it reminded me to question every assumption.

I wonder how people think Ross killed Cooper in between CFA and HD?

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

I wonder how people think Ross killed Cooper in between CFA and HD?

I thought I had read all the posts today. I missed someone thinking CH was killed between CFA and HD. I read a lot of posts about car seats and people not understanding how Cooper would fit into the lowest setting on the rear facing car seat which was explained with links to posts last week about the straps on the back are loose and can be pulled up over the baby's shoulders (like suspenders). I also remember discussions about maybe CH may have been buckled into the regular car seat or maybe not buckled at all. But I haven't seen anyone posting maybe Ch was killed between Chick Fil A and HD. Let me ask Inthedetails for a link.

 

[K_Z]

Hmmm. Just read it differently. "Get to work okay" as in get busy at work.
Or...
"Get to work okay" as in 'did you get to work okay?'
Wow. I read it the first way when I first heard it and just now the second way. Why would she even ask him if he got to work instead of asking if the baby got to daycare okay? Would her question make him think of Cooper??

WOW That's food for thought. It could be interpreted several ways. The most nefarious being that it was sort of code for "mission accomplished??" Hmm I need to think about that. JMO

I can interpret that several ways, as a command or a question. Deciphering intent from abbreviations and lack of typical punctuation in text messages renders the message less interpretable without context. Having the context of any texts before or after would be more helpful, as in, did LH ever text something like this to RH at that time of day in the past? This is how I think it could be interpreted:

Get to work okay

A question, without punctuation. As in, "did you get to work okay?"

That can have several interpretations, from the innocent inquiry as to whether he got to work all right, was there traffic or complications, or whether he arrived at work on time. Inquiring as to whether he was late, did all go well with dropping off Cooper, did the old carseat work out okay, did both of you manage to get some breakfast, etc. She may have been worried about him arriving to work on time, if he and Cooper were lounging around in bed when they should have been getting ready for work and daycare as she left home.

As others have pointed out, it could also have a more nefarious interpretation, such as a coded message for her knowledge or involvement in some plan to abandon Cooper.

Get to work okay

A command, without punctuation.

For example, intending to mean something like (stop goofing off and) "get to work, okay?" Meaning, get yourself together, and get to work, okay? Perhaps LH was worried because RH has a reputation for always being late (according to interviews with his friends) he was chronically late to work, and was urging/ nagging him to get it together and get himself to work on time.

Or, a command to stop texting and get BACK to work, ok? As in, buckle down and get some work done. Could be in a teasing manner, or in a more serious tone, as in, let's stop texting now and get some work done.

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

One reason posters may be questioning it because not being buckled in could indicate the baby was killed elsewhere and then placed in the car. I do not believe this is what happened for one second, but confirming the buckle helps confirm the baby was alive when put in the car seat.

While I don't think the baby died anywhere but in that car, I do appreciate it when assumptions are questioned.

I thought I had read all the posts today. Did someone post that they thought there was a possibility that CH could have been killed in the short time between Chick Fil A and HD? Do you have a link? I would like to read the reasoning behind that thought. Since this is such an emotionally charged case and posters either think 100% RH should be guilty of some charge and sent to prison and others think 100% that it was an accident, it has been difficult for me to keep up. This reminds me of an SEC football game with opposing fans trading remarks, very adamant that their team is the best. LOL

 

[MsMarple]

Whenever I think of RH's story the thought that keeps coming to mind is alibi building.

I understand that we only have limited information so far and my thoughts may change as we learn more but looking at what's been released in the PCH and the media:

RH went into fine detail about the time before he left for work. He took pains to explain how well versed he is in car seat knowledge <cough>. He told the story about kissing Cooper when he strapped him in nice and tight. He said he researched hot car deaths because he was so afraid. That Cooper fell asleep. Yada yada yada.

So much information. And yet he omitted details about lunch hour. The time closest to Cooper's death.

All he really said about the critical time – discovering Cooper still strapped in his tiny car seat – was that he noticed him as he was changing lanes and pulled over to get him out. See how front-loaded his story is? It's like he was setting the scene, showing LE what a good, responsible dad he is. Convincing them he could never, ever harm his son.

My point is that when someone spends such an inordinate amount of time on what happened before and after a terrible event rather than on the event itself, red flags start dropping. And I think LE saw those flags too.

More smoke and mirrors.

And of course :moo:

 

[gngr~snap]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/toddler-dads-fate-rests-on-digital-sleuthing/ngm4x/


On July 3, Cobb police and prosecutors successfully used*tidbits*culled from Justin Ross Harris’ electronic devices to shock an international audience. When the trial opens, their task will be harder: to convince a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Harris was — at the least — criminally negligent, not just tragically distracted, when he left his 22-month-0ld son in the car for seven hours.

Snap's summary: sorry about typos

*the wheels of the bus are to rolling
AND the "spin" has begun !!![emoji591]

iPhone
iPad
Apple Mac Book Pro laptop
Lenova T350 ( Home Depot laptop)
Dell Demension 9200 computer tower
Google Chromecast - streams online videos on TV

• GBI not assisting

•unlike a piece of paper address police might find upon arrest, having a IP address provides volumes of information digital sleuths to wade through.

• his actions in cyberspace will reveal multiple ways what could have been on his mind.
Did he click on something because it interested him or insensed him?


Peeling the Onion

• every discovery opens up more questions

• women on Kik may be unable to locate.
• Kik allows screen names only
• email address isn't confirmed upon registration

Questioning these women could back up claims he wanted out of the marriage.

• AT&T doesn't retain regular text messages. IPhone's tools may be able to locate them.

• Harris not real savvy at computer forensics,he did delete items from his devices, but they may can be found. He used no anti forensics or advanced methods to hide his online life.

• Possibly he is just arrogant for thinking he'd never get caught.

Defense

• news reported he viewed videos of animals dying, when he only watched a video of a vet pleading for safety.

• "searches" were only clicks

• web sites all have deviations from GST times there is no way to prove from a time stamp that Harris did the searches.
[emoji514]


All posts are MOO

 

[SStarr33]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/toddler-dads-fate-rests-on-digital-sleuthing/ngm4x/


On July 3, Cobb police and prosecutors successfully used*tidbits*culled from Justin Ross Harris&#8217; electronic devices to shock an international audience. When the trial opens, their task will be harder: to convince a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Harris was &#8212; at the least &#8212; criminally negligent, not just tragically distracted, when he left his 22-month-0ld son in the car for seven hours.

Snap's summary: sorry about typos

*the wheels of the bus are to rolling
AND the "spin" have begun !!!

iPhone
iPad
Apple Mac Book Pro laptop
Lenova T350 ( Home Depot laptop)
Dell Demension 9200 computer tower
Google Chromecast - streams online videos on TV

&#8226; GBI not assisting

&#8226;unlike a piece of paper address police might find upon arrest, having a IP address provides volumes of information digital sleuths to wade through.

&#8226; his actions in cyberspace will reveal multiple ways what could have been on his mind.
Did he click on something because it interested him or insensed him?


Peeling the Onion

&#8226; every discovery opens up more questions

&#8226; women on Kik may be unable to locate.
&#8226; Kik allows screen names only
&#8226; email address isn't confirmed upon registration

Questioning these women could back up claims he wanted out of the marriage.

&#8226; AT&T doesn't retain regular text messages. IPhone's tools may be able to locate them.

&#8226; Harris not real savvy at computer forensics,he did delete items from his devices, but they may can be found. He used no anti forensics or advanced methods to hide his online life.

&#8226; Possibly he is just arrogant for thinking he'd never get caught.

Defense

&#8226; news reported he viewed videos of animals dying, when he only watched a video of a vet pleading for safety.

&#8226; "searches" were only clicks

&#8226; web sites all have deviations from GST times there is no way to prove from a time stamp that Harris did the searches.

&#8226;

All posts are MOO

Thanks for that. It seems this is the info that they are using to say Stoddard was not being truthful about the internet searches.