Small Details that are interesting in the Cooper Harris case, #1

[gngr~snap]

The small detail that I would like to know about is when was JRH read his rights? We know that he was cuffed and put into a police car at the scene and taken to the police station where he was questioned. Hours later he was arrested.

Did LE read him his rights when he was first detained and he waived his right to remain silent? Or did they remove the cuffs, make it clear that he was free to leave the police station and he then voluntarily answered LE questions without the Miranda warning being read to him?

I'm wondering if any incriminating statements JRH made to LE will be ruled inadmissible in court.

"Under Georgia law, if circumstances are such that a reasonable person would believe that he/she were under arrest, then an arrest has occurred. If the time of arrest is in dispute, a judge will make the determination at a pretrial hearing."

"*Any incriminating statements you make while being interrogated prior to being placed under arrest are admissible in court. Keep in mind that you are under no legal obligation to talk to the police during a First or Second Tier encounter."

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/mirand-rights-in-georgia

I can't find anything from the court system about this. I know I have seen several people get cuffed and put in a patrol car by Cobb County and I just realized,
I have never heard them Mirandize anyone.

Weird!

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[Inthedetails]

I thought I had read all the posts today. Did someone post that they thought there was a possibility that CH could have been killed in the short time between Chick Fil A and HD? Do you have a link? I would like to read the reasoning behind that thought. Since this is such an emotionally charged case and posters either think 100% RH should be guilty of some charge and sent to prison and others think 100% that it was an accident, it has been difficult for me to keep up. This reminds me of an SEC football game with opposing fans trading remarks, very adamant that their team is the best. LOL

Nobody suggested that at all. I clearly stated that I DID NOT think Cooper was killed anywhere but in that car. Someone is not reading clearly (and or I am not writing clearly, which could be the case!!).

My point had nothing to do specifically with the buckling. My point was an appreciation for questioning everything. Period. That's it.

Again, for the 3rd or 4th time, I do not think Cooper was killed anywhere but the car.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

"Under Georgia law, if circumstances are such that a reasonable person would believe that he/she were under arrest, then an arrest has occurred. If the time of arrest is in dispute, a judge will make the determination at a pretrial hearing."

"*Any incriminating statements you make while being interrogated prior to being placed under arrest are admissible in court. Keep in mind that you are under no legal obligation to talk to the police during a First or Second Tier encounter."

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/mirand-rights-in-georgia

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BBM So would you take this to mean that all police station recordings will be admissible in court?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Thank you for your reply :blowkiss:.. Since I don't have all the details of this case and I can only "assume" from everything that I've read thus far, I personally don't believe Cooper fell asleep as soon as RH put him the car, that is just hard from me to believe. I don't know how weak or confused he may have gotten, but I'm going to guess he may have tried to get out of the car seat not long after daddy left him, with or without being strapped in. He may not have liked the fact that daddy left him alone in the car, and he may have gotten vocal for a bit, crying maybe??? (breaks my heart to think of that ) Daddy, not once, remembered through out that whole day that he forgot to take Cooper to day care???? For 7 long hours, not once remembered he didn't take his son to day care, never popped into his mind and yet he knew he had him since he took him to CFA so nothing triggered his mind that whole day that something wasn't right????? He simply forgot, ooops my bad???

I know, it's just too hard and painful to imagine. From what I've read, when they "forget" due to an interruption in their cognitive process, it's like the forgotten action was complete--in their minds it was and they carry on as if they had done they were supposed to have done. It's truly bizarre....

 

[gngr~snap]

BBM So would you take this to mean that all police station recordings will be admissible in court?

I would, because I believe that everyone
is recorded when speaking to
police. Leanna was recorded
at the Treehouse.
I do not speak to the police period.
I hope I never HAVE to!
I Facebook with a few from high school. lol


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[RANCH]

"Under Georgia law, if circumstances are such that a reasonable person would believe that he/she were under arrest, then an arrest has occurred. If the time of arrest is in dispute, a judge will make the determination at a pretrial hearing."

"*Any incriminating statements you make while being interrogated prior to being placed under arrest are admissible in court. Keep in mind that you are under no legal obligation to talk to the police during a First or Second Tier encounter."

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/mirand-rights-in-georgia

I can't find anything from the court system about this. I know I have seen several people get cuffed and put in a patrol car by Cobb County and I just realized,
I have never heard them Mirandize anyone.

Weird!

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You can be detained or "cuffed" by police while they investigate a crime.

You don't have to answer any questions they have.

If LE wants to ask you questions where they wish to use your answer against you in court then they need to read you your rights.

 

[gngr~snap]

Yep, it sure is.

Get to work okay?

Now, if someone could tell what those last 2 texts say now that Det Stoddards hand isn't blocking it, I'd be a happy camper

I'not sure.

Call when_________

Can't until____________

Post # 1012 has a better picture. And video

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[gngr~snap]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crim...link_cbpopular_bottom#d4d037ae.3826992.735440

Will this link open?

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[gngr~snap]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crim...nbox_apr2013_ajcstub1#7c9065e7.3826992.735440

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[gngr~snap]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crim...hine-or-fizzle/ngm5g/#2bdf25f8.3826992.735440

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[DeDee]

No way did Cooper fall asleep in that short drive from CFA. Cooper suffered a horrendous and long death in the hot car he was locked inside. My apologies for not accepting diminishment that Cooper did not suffer tremendous agony for up to two hours or longer.

Maybe Cooper did fall asleep as soon as he got in the car? I haven't researched the stages of hyperthermia in a lot of detail, but supposedly someone may get tired, may pass out. I don't know how a sleeping baby would respond to that--he may have been too weak and/or confused to get himself out of the seat belt. I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement, but maybe not able to perform the steps necessary due to his condition. It's pretty painful to imagine all the gory details, but I'm sure there's no cut and dry standard.

I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement

What movements was Cooper capable of making while strapped tightly into the small infant seat? Mostly none. He was strapped into an infant's car seat that he'd outgrown.

Why would Cooper fall asleep within moments of leaving CFA if he thought/assumed he would be arriving at his day care within a cpl of blocks or a cpl of minutes? That is, if the male driver would have taken him to daycare. I propose that Cooper verbally reminded the driver 'he missed the turn to go to LAA' and/or at least asked his driver why he wasn't dropped off at school especially once the vehicle was stopped and parked at HD?

May I urge researching hyperthermia straight away. The topic is covered extensively in the threads. It is a horribly brutal way to suffocate and die. It takes dreadfully slow time while the body's temperature climbs higher and higher but when core temp reaches 107*; humans die. Up to two hours of agonizing events took place during Cooper's hyperthermia before he died. He did not sleep through any of his death nor was he medicated with pain reliever.

This beautiful 22mo baby boy did not fall asleep nor become too weak to get himself out of his infant's seat. At 22mo, Cooper was never capable of applying adequate pressure to release the buckles that held him constrained in the inferno.

moo and all that jazz

 

[Ruby]

It would be the back of his head and his head is covered with hair. So, I do not see how he could see the blue.

Human - good point about hair covering back of head. I didn't think about that at first, but now that I did - here's another thought.
Cooper's hair was very light and thin, I'm thinking if his skin was blueish, or had changed colors, it may have been noticed through the hair?

My thoughts/explanations are in response to another posters question re: the choking comment RH made at time of discovery.
My reasoning was because of the reports/pch stating the blueish color, and new info from a post (gngr-snap's I believe) about noises a body makes after death.

If Cooper looked like the description below, (thank you DeDee for the details) I think the top of his head would be discolored and there would be cause/concern to pull over. Not being able to see what the rest of Cooper's face and body looked like until he was getting him out of his car seat.
Maybe RH did think he was choking (when driving) but knew better after getting him out of the car seat. This may explain the "I thought he was choking" comment. (italics meaning past tense)

I'm just commenting on RH's statement and adding in "maybe a why" it was said.
My opinion will not change his final judgment, be it in court or otherwise. I'm still on the fence.
So I tend to go with the "What if's or the Maybe's" and when they run out - there's no doubt.

RBBM


If Ross noticed his son, he would have seen Cooper's discolored skin, bloating, dampness: wet hair & clothing, hot to touch, stiff from rigor, redness from livor, w/blanching where the straps were tight across him. Cooper had fresh scratch marks on his perfect baby face. Cooper's blue eyes were open. His mouth was open with his once tiny pink, now blue, tongue protruding. Expect to see in the AR that the tip of Cooper's tongue had dried from exposure to air. None, absolutely none of those conditions, demonstrate Cooper could have been possibly been choking anytime within the past four to five hours because Cooper was already gone that long when he was "discovered".

Moo and all that jazz

Final moments must of been agonizing, and worse that a loved one did this to him. Rest in Peace Cooper.


I tried to condense my post and respond to both Human, and DeDee.
I'm not well with multiple quotes so I hope this works, not only that it works but hopefully my comments make sense.

 

[gngr~snap]

"Then, a year later, an Orlando news station, WKMG, released the work of two hobbyist sleuths who had procured the Anthony browsing history under Florida’s open records law.Their analysis delved into something the police had not found: that on the day of Caylee Anthony’s death, someone had searched “fool-proof suffication” on a browser primarily used by Casey Anthony."

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crim...hine-or-fizzle/ngm5g/#2bdf25f8.3826992.735440
ANYONE WONDER WHAT "SLEUTH" THAT MIGHT BE??? LOL

[emoji82] [emoji361] [emoji335]

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[DeDee]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crim...nbox_apr2013_ajcstub1#7c9065e7.3826992.735440

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In the Harris case, “with the police being involved, they could get anything,” said Andrew Case, a New-Orleans-based core developer with the Volatility project, who specializes in computer forensics.

“And if his computer had something like Dropbox or other cloud storage servicing, that can provide additional historical context into his files. Because if you deleted it locally, they hold on to it for a specific amount of time.”

"That data trail can make or break a digital forensics investigation where someone is accused of looking at kiddie *advertiser censored* or texting while causing a fatal accident."

 

[gngr~snap]

:waitasec: I thought RH's handlers said none of that was relevant to Cooper being forgotten in the car.

That was about as obvious as RH telling LE how he was such a concerned parent he buckled Cooper in real tight and kissed him in case they were in a wreck and COOPER DIED, he would remember daddy loved him.

Fixed it!

he was such an awful parent he buckled Cooper in real tight and kissed him and COOPER DIED, he would remember daddy killed him.



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[gngr~snap]

Human - good point about hair covering back of head. I didn't think about that at first, but now that I did - here's another thought.
Cooper's hair was very light and thin, I'm thinking if his skin was blueish, or had changed colors, it may have been noticed through the hair?

My thoughts/explanations are in response to another posters question re: the choking comment RH made at time of discovery.
My reasoning was because of the reports/pch stating the blueish color, and new info from a post (gngr-snap's I believe) about noises a body makes after death.

If Cooper looked like the description below, (thank you DeDee for the details) I think the top of his head would be discolored and there would be cause/concern to pull over. Not being able to see what the rest of Cooper's face and body looked like until he was getting him out of his car seat.
Maybe RH did think he was choking (when driving) but knew better after getting him out of the car seat. This may explain the "I thought he was choking" comment. (italics meaning past tense)

I'm just commenting on RH's statement and adding in "maybe a why" it was said.
My opinion will not change his final judgment, be it in court or otherwise. I'm still on the fence.
So I tend to go with the "What if's or the Maybe's" and when they run out - there's no doubt.



Final moments must of been agonizing, and worse that a loved one did this to him. Rest in Peace Cooper.


I tried to condense my post and respond to both Human, and DeDee.
I'm not well with multiple quotes so I hope this works, not only that it works but hopefully my comments make sense.

RH didn't do his homework. He probably read as many others have babies and toddlers dont usually get rigor mortis.

*"Many infant and child corpses will not exhibit perceptible rigor mortis. This decreased perceptible stiffness may be due to their smaller muscle mass"
http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html#b
He should have verified that with more references!

No body puys Cooper on the corner!
The "what have I done?"
Was real.
What you did RH is, you got caught!

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[MyBelle]

Okay...I don't want anyone to think I'm defending RH in any way--I think he's a total idiot for allowing this to happen. If I ever knew him personally, I'm almost sure I wouldn't like him--even before this happened. But, at the same time I don't really think (right now anyways) that he intended to kill his son. This whole car seat thing is just one theory I've come up with to try to understand how a person could accidentally leave their child in the car.

* If Cooper wasn't buckled in his seat, but was buckled in the back seat behind the driver instead, it would maybe explain why RH didn't see him when he forgot about him and got out of the car at work.

* Being buckled in the back seat would still leave his legs extended, and they could even have been bent.

* I think RH lied about the car seat and went into so much detail about it to LE because he was wanting to cover up the fact he broke the car seat law. Once he was charged with murder, the last thing he wants to do is to say he lied about anything that was initially said.

* My theory is that they forgot to get the car seat out of LH's car that morning and that he may have tried to use the small seat, but realized that wasn't going to work. I also wonder if the "get to work okay?" comment referred to how he made out without the car seat.

I'm sure if this actually did happen, it won't help his case very much, but it would be nice to know that he didn't kill his child on purpose. I actually think the whole distraction was cell phone related, and that there were other things going on that added to the end result.

eace:

If a person lies to police for any reason, it does not excuse their crime. A jury will not conclude they did not commit the crime "on purpose."

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Human - good point about hair covering back of head. I didn't think about that at first, but now that I did - here's another thought.
Cooper's hair was very light and thin, I'm thinking if his skin was blueish, or had changed colors, it may have been noticed through the hair?

My thoughts/explanations are in response to another posters question re: the choking comment RH made at time of discovery.
My reasoning was because of the reports/pch stating the blueish color, and new info from a post (gngr-snap's I believe) about noises a body makes after death.

If Cooper looked like the description below, (thank you DeDee for the details) I think the top of his head would be discolored and there would be cause/concern to pull over. Not being able to see what the rest of Cooper's face and body looked like until he was getting him out of his car seat.
Maybe RH did think he was choking (when driving) but knew better after getting him out of the car seat. This may explain the "I thought he was choking" comment. (italics meaning past tense)

I'm just commenting on RH's statement and adding in "maybe a why" it was said.
My opinion will not change his final judgment, be it in court or otherwise. I'm still on the fence.
So I tend to go with the "What if's or the Maybe's" and when they run out - there's no doubt.



Final moments must of been agonizing, and worse that a loved one did this to him. Rest in Peace Cooper.


I tried to condense my post and respond to both Human, and DeDee.
I'm not well with multiple quotes so I hope this works, not only that it works but hopefully my comments make sense.

My family and I once witnessed paramedics frantically performing CPR on a man whiled the gurney was being wheeled out of the Dallas airport in a rush. The guy wasn't "bluish," he was a very dark blue/gray. My 2-year-old son commented on the color. Harris would have smelled his dead son or noticed his color the moment he entered the car, imo. It is simply not believable TO ME that he "didn't notice" until later on. Police have noted he is a liar. We all know Cooper was not choking at the time Harris stopped his vehicle because the child was already dead.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Maybe Cooper did fall asleep as soon as he got in the car? I haven't researched the stages of hyperthermia in a lot of detail, but supposedly someone may get tired, may pass out. I don't know how a sleeping baby would respond to that--he may have been too weak and/or confused to get himself out of the seat belt. I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement, but maybe not able to perform the steps necessary due to his condition. It's pretty painful to imagine all the gory details, but I'm sure there's no cut and dry standard.

Maybe I missed something but I don't believe the hyperthermia conditions existed prior to Harris turning off the car. I sure don't believe Cooper feel asleep in those too tight shoulder straps. If he did, he may have been drugged with Benedryl and I'm not all that certain the tox screen even looked for it.

The chances Cooper passed out on his own while in those straps were slim to none. His father arrived at work just fine.

JMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Maybe Cooper did fall asleep as soon as he got in the car? I haven't researched the stages of hyperthermia in a lot of detail, but supposedly someone may get tired, may pass out. I don't know how a sleeping baby would respond to that--he may have been too weak and/or confused to get himself out of the seat belt. I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement, but maybe not able to perform the steps necessary due to his condition. It's pretty painful to imagine all the gory details, but I'm sure there's no cut and dry standard.

He was STRAPPED IN THE INFANT SEAT. He was! There is NO WAY to strap a child in tight enough in a regular seat belt that he can't get out. Unless maybe you duct tape them to the seat? And there is no way a child that age would stay seated, especially if he is in distress. He would be trying to get out of the car.

If he wasn't strapped in, that would have been EXTREMELY RELEVANT in the probable cause hearing to prove negligence for not only leaving him in the car but also not following the car seat laws.

I apologize if this is too blunt but everyone else is politely dancing around this line of thinking and it's simply not even a possibility that he wasn't strapped in.

Eyewitness quote: Artiyka also believes the baby had been dead for many hours before Harris pulled the child out of the car.
‘The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn’t natural.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ake-supporters-think-twice.html#ixzz38YyTIOsq