Something that has been bugging me... (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT)

DNA Solves
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DNA Solves

They did 3 films (calling it a trilogy). The one you reference on Youtube was the second in the series. According to the DM Production website, I assumed (because of the R's disputes with the media) that it was the first one MT and DM produced. The first production focused on the faults of the media. moo
 
Don't be silly. How would I know where this was done exactly?

I made a brush handle and cord device similar to the one used by Patsy and placed one end into a hole drilled into a stud 2x4 with the cord going all the way to the stud. I placed a 45 pound weight on the cord and the device held the weight. I then pulled the handle out about half an inch a few times testing the weight and it held until 2 1/2" were pulled out then it snapped The end piece was longer probably than the missing end piece in the Ramsey case. I used an old oil brush if memory serves about a number 12.

I then placed the handle between two nails pounded into a stud about 2" apart and placed the handle over that with the cord hanging straight down between the nails. It held the weight easily.

Number 12 is an artist's paint brush? Disregard. I looked it up and answered my question. Google is my friend.
 
(bbm)
Don't be silly. How would I know where this was done exactly?

I made a brush handle and cord device similar to the one used by Patsy and placed one end into a hole drilled into a stud 2x4 with the cord going all the way to the stud. I placed a 45 pound weight on the cord and the device held the weight. I then pulled the handle out about half an inch a few times testing the weight and it held until 2 1/2" were pulled out then it snapped The end piece was longer probably than the missing end piece in the Ramsey case. I used an old oil brush if memory serves about a number 12.

I then placed the handle between two nails pounded into a stud about 2" apart and placed the handle over that with the cord hanging straight down between the nails. It held the weight easily.
I'm not a carpenter, but don't 2 x 4 studs go vertically?
 
(bbm)
I'm not a carpenter, but don't 2 x 4 studs go vertically?


Wall studs do, the main ones attached to overhead joists & beams, & below at the sills (or metal sill plates, in some situations ie concrete slab) to attach to the floor.

But wherever there are things needing to be framed around, ie windows, ductwork for a heating system, or (less commonly) situations where it's necessary to maintain structural integrity anywhere else, then they are horizontal.

I'm not sure if they would still be considered "studs", though. I'm no expert. I call ANY piece of 2x4 behind a wall a stud..
 
What would be the point of breaking a paintbrush to place between two nails? Why not simply hang the cord over the nail(s)?
 
What would be the point of breaking a paintbrush to place between two nails? Why not simply hang the cord over the nail(s)?

Maybe bluebottle is thinking that the body was originally hung on just the paintbrush but then broke under the weight? Which would explain how/why it ended up in pieces, and also how the abrasion on her back was made.

AND, possibly, where the missing piece is--- still in the hole it was in before it broke off.

He mentions he conducted his own experiment to try and duplicate this aspect of his theory...
 
Wall studs do, the main ones attached to overhead joists & beams, & below at the sills (or metal sill plates, in some situations ie concrete slab) to attach to the floor.

But wherever there are things needing to be framed around, ie windows, ductwork for a heating system, or (less commonly) situations where it's necessary to maintain structural integrity anywhere else, then they are horizontal.

I'm not sure if they would still be considered "studs", though. I'm no expert. I call ANY piece of 2x4 behind a wall a stud..
Sorry to be a stickler for detail, but a stud is the vertical 2x4 in wall construction. Each of the uses for a 2x4 has a different term. Using the word "stud" implies a specific use. The "two nails pounded into a stud about 2" apart" just caused me to question it because the dimensions of a 2x4 is 1-1/2" x 3-1/2".
 
BBM

First of all it is incorrect to assume it was a garrote so the question is misleading IMO. Second there were three attacks not two. The bruises on the lower front neck indicate an initial strangulation preceeding the final position of the neck ligature. The lack of external swelling and small amount of internal bleeding coupled with petecchial hemorrhages suggests the head blow followed the strangulation.

So the question should be: Why a strangulation, head blow and neck ligature?

My opinion is:

1. There was an initial strangulation followed by a head blow and then application of the neck ligature. Or:

2. The was an intial strangulation followed by the application of the neck ligature and then a head blow.

And, it is my opinion that the application of the neck ligature was not for strangulation or for a staged strangulation but for the purpose of suspension.

And, it is my opinion that the application of the neck ligature was not for strangulation or for a staged strangulation but for the purpose of suspension.

I disagree. This was not a game gone wrong. The cord was used as a strangulation device. And possibly, yet briefly, partial suspension. Why strangle until death someone with binding cord that was meant only to suspend them? otg, do you have any suggestions?

To repeat BlueBottle: Why a strangulation, head blow and neck ligature?

3 separate attacks: 1) initial strangulation 2) head blow 3) neck ligature​

Dare I wonder why there would be a need for an initial or partial strangulation of the object the killer is centered on? Aren't we talking about 60 to 90 minutes lapsing between this leading event and her death. There was ample time for chanting or reciting Bible verses.

That initial or partial strangulation, was followed by a horrific head bash at some point in time. During which portion of all of that was JonBenet suspended? And why? Why suspend her when she is so near death?

Chris, you wrote:
Regardless of who you believe killed this child, I believe most people accept (and the evidence supports) that this weapon was constructed in the home and was employed to finish the murder which began with the blow to the head.

My reply:
Regardless of who you believe killed this child, I believe most people will never accept (and the evidence supports) that this weapon was constructed in the home and was employed to murder which included the blow to the head.

Images RBM for space
The image below, taken from the Forums for Justice forums, is a photograph of the ligature or garrote used during the murder of this child. I freely admit that this might well have been discussed to death and I missed it, but for whatever reason I never really paid any attention to this weapon before.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4426&stc=1&d=1338921389

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4426&stc=1&d=1338921389

<above quote snipped>

The wood is apparently the broken handle of a paint brush found in the basement. The cordage came from somewhere unknown? As I understand it...

The stick was a paintbush handle with BOTH ends broken off (one of which apparently remains missing to this day). One end of the cord was tied around the handle, the other end was fashioned into a slip knot to form a noose which went around JBR's neck. My questions:

1. Why a PAINTBRUSH? Paintbrush handles are generally weak. If you were looking to quickly finish someone off and didn't feel like hitting them any more (the obvious solution) why take the time to break the ends off the brush? You would either use it as is or find something more appropriate.

2. Where's the missing end? Regardless who did it, if it were constructed that night the missing end wouldn't be missing. It would be there in the brush case with the rest of it.

3. The knot. Imaging you are trying to invent a murder weapon quickly, you have minutes, and then ask yourself... is THIS the kind of knot you would tie? I am not claiming that this knot required some special expertise, I don't know that, but in my opinion it does not seem like the kind of thing someone whipped out on their first try. It looks purposeful.

4. The mechanism of killing. Basically, as I understand it, this was nothing more than a noose with a stick on the end. JBR's neck was inside the noose. It was tightened either by pushing the knot or by twisting the stick and coiling the string to apply pressure against the knot. If you were trying to quickly kill someone this is not how you would do it. Not even close. You would tie a stick on both ends, loop it around the neck, and pull. Who would even THINK of constructing some device like this, let alone on the spur of the moment.

5. This took time and thought. It was't thrown together in moments as a hasty "finish her off" improvised weapon. It was crafted with at least some care, and yet it's not all that effective as a murder device. Why go to all this trouble when the killer had to LITERALLY step over loose power cords, marker pens, and sections of train track on the floor? A man's tie, a twisted nightgown, damn near anything would have worked as well -- so why CONSTRUCT something like this?

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4516&stc=1&d=1343164303

6. Where's the missing parts? Specifically, where did the cord come from and where's the rest of the paintbrush? If you look at imagines of the home and basement there is cord all over the place and all kinds of wonderful strangulation implements. The killer had NO REASON to remove any of it, and in some cases had no hesitation in leaving it behind. Some of the pieces of paintbrush, for example, were left. Only one piece was missing. The remaining cord has apparently never been located.

All of these questions lead me to one simple conclusion:

This weapon was not constructed that night. No one threw this together to finish JBR off, it was already together and might well have been used on her -- perhaps multiple times in the past. The missing piece of wood is easily explained this way as well. The person who constructed this weapon initially just snapped the ferule off the brush, and in some previous use the other end broke off and was discarded at that time. The cord packaging and remains weren't smuggled out (there would be no reason for anyone to do that regardless of who it was), it was just thrown away long before.

Summary: This supposed murder weapon was not designed with this purpose in mind. It would only really word that way on an unconscious victim or if significant force were applied (as in an effort at assassination). Nor was this imagined and constructed by someone without some investment of time and thought. No one said to themselves, "Holy Hell, I need to kill someone right now! I better start designing and crafting an elaborate device!"

This was a TOY, no more effective than the loose bonds on JBRs wrists, pressed into service for lethal use.

IN MY OPINION.

2. IIRC, someone amongst us suggested the missing paintbrush end to be the length of up to 1.75". Not difficult to flush or burn with the missing RN pages, imo.

1. Art. This was a creative act. It is no wonder art supplies are associated.

2. It remained in a hole that the brush handle was put into and broke off.

3. It had to support weight, it had to be secure to support weight.

4. The neck ligature as it ended up was not a method of killing, it was a method os suspension/posing.

5. It was premeditated and it comes from a book.

6. Good questions.

MOO

LE may have noticed a hole in the wall with a broken, jagged paintbrush poking out of the hole in the wall.

The paintbrush could have been suspended from an anchor with a double hook with the paintbrush placed across the gap made by the dbl hooks and beyond on each side. Or possibly placed across 2 - two penny nails hammered into wooden supports or studs.

At some point, the paintbrush snapped from its suspension, leaving the cord attached to the broken brush. The brush end pops off into the paint tote. Maybe the killer could not find the brush end afterward and left it in the tote due to oversight?

Possibly consider beheaded with the word gibbet. It is quite a chilling tell:

From The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie:

I am a descendant, do not forget, of Willie Brodie, a man of substance, a cabinet maker and designer of gibbets, ... He died cheerfully on a gibbet of his own devising.

gibbet 1. a gallows with a projecting arm at the top for suspending and displaying the bodies of criminals after hanging.

... I'm not talking about plenty of parents, just the mother of a murdered girl with literature and mythic imagery plastered all over the crime. That kind narrows it down a bit.

That's right it isn't abnormal. It also wasn't abnormal for the Zodiac killer to use a mandala to sign off his letters.

Absorption in mythic imagery is not pathological unless it is used as replacement for reality.

Absorption in mythic imagery is not pathological unless it is used as replacement for reality.

I cannot conceive, imagine nor accept my life without it being reality. Replacing reality by absorbing mythic imagery makes the patient [PR] psychotic.

For one fourth of her life, Patsy lived with the stigma attached that it could have been, must have been, PDI. 1/4 of her life or 1/2 of her adult life was spent living after JonBenet died and was buried.


OMO
 
I think there was an initial strangulation that left the bruises on the front of the neck below the ligatures.

Strangulation may not have been the goal only subjugation,: control with unconsciousness a by-product. IOW, the body had to be totally accessible whether dead, unconscious or momentarily disabled. The consequences of the disableing was not a concern only the ability to manipulate mattered.

I think the body was then posed with the application of the neck ligature resulting in the asphixiation, again that not being the goal: the posing was the goal, the asphixiation the unintended consequences.

The head blow followed as a symbolic means of sending the sacrificial victim to the next world, the victim participating with the arms raised. The extent of the blow; 8 1/2" fracture with bone displacment another unintended consequence.

All of this done without a consious recognition of death as a goal. Had the whole bussiness (pun intended) been less lethal the girl might have survived for some time. As it was she died there and then.
 
To repeat BlueBottle: Why a 1. strangulation, 2. head blow and 3. neck ligature?

1. Control.
2. Symbolic sinding to the next world.
3. Suspension, punishment, display.

One of the problems I have with this theory is the need for "hanging". A cord under the arms could have provided an upright torso position. A gibbet display does not require a neck ligature. As it is the neck ligature is severe. It may have been simple logistics but it looks like it was desired.
 
BBM




For one fourth of her life, Patsy lived with the stigma attached that it could have been, must have been, PDI. 1/4 of her life or 1/2 of her adult life was spent living after JonBenet died and was buried.


OMO

Then again she lived that time secretly thinking she beat the game, she had it all figured out.
 
I think there was an initial strangulation that left the bruises on the front of the neck below the ligatures.

Strangulation may not have been the goal only subjugation,: control with unconsciousness a by-product. IOW, the body had to be totally accessible whether dead, unconscious or momentarily disabled. The consequences of the disableing was not a concern only the ability to manipulate mattered.

I think the body was then posed with the application of the neck ligature resulting in the asphixiation, again that not being the goal: the posing was the goal, the asphixiation the unintended consequences.

The head blow followed as a symbolic means of sending the sacrificial victim to the next world, the victim participating with the arms raised. The extent of the blow; 8 1/2" fracture with bone displacment another unintended consequence.

All of this done without a consious recognition of death as a goal. Had the whole bussiness (pun intended) been less lethal the girl might have survived for some time. As it was she died there and then.


The head blow followed as a symbolic means of sending the sacrificial victim to the next world, the victim participating with the arms raised. The extent of the blow; 8 1/2" fracture with bone displacment another unintended consequence.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oHvETrbPjMs/TMmSIzBuCRI/AAAAAAAAAAU/RDO0gHUIAks/s1600/bodysketch.jpg


heyya BB,

Hmmm, I'm trying to imagine the dynamics of the swing, if JBR was 'propped' against a vertical surface with her arms suspended above her head, would her arms obstruct the blow? And if her head was struck against a flat surface with such great force might there be corresponding mark on the back of her scalp?
 
I made a model, admittedly a model, but with the arms suspended the head fell forward exposing the back of the skull to a person standing to the right of the vertical torso. A right handed person taller than the child would have a clear shot at the post parietal bone.

Gotta go nighty night.
 
I made a model, admittedly a model, but with the arms suspended the head fell forward exposing the back of the skull to a person standing to the right of the vertical torso. A right handed person taller than the child would have a clear shot at the post parietal bone.



Gotta go nighty night.


Would love to see photos of your experiment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Would love to see photos of your experiment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ya, if I would just get off my dead arse I'd put it back together and use the photo as an avatar. It's in the planning phase along with my other household projects and chores.
 
What I have learned here today is. I need to do a lot more lurking and reading before diving into any discussion about this case.

LOL! Good luck with that....to the BOTH of us!!....and which is precisely why *I* more or less tend to take a lurker's back seat here.

It'll take us FOREVER to read everything here just to get up to speed on this case, a case which makes me absolutely CRAZY, I mite add. I am one of those "need to know" kinda people, and where this case is concerned, I have a SERIOUS NEED TO KNOW, and I want to know NOW! as do a bazillion other folks here, I would imagine.

But, like Mick Jagger says, "ya can't always get what ya want" ;-)
 
The game Kolar is referring to is "Guess Who". And there is absolutely nothing in the game where the characters are dead. You basically just guess the character that your opponent has chosen, by asking them yes or no questions, and then eliminating the characters on your side that don't fit...

I am very familiar with that game (my 2 youngest kids and I used to refer to it as "Face Off") and you are absolutely correct. Nobody "dies" in the game. I just find it odd how BR referred to the flipped down characters as "not dead yet".

And BTW, once again I'll admit that I absolutely LOVE, and I cannot get enough of, Kolar's book. I think my son will finally fling it out our 5th floor kitchen window if he catches me readin' it JUST ONE MORE TIME :)
 
IMO, anyone that wants to know the case will get over Kolar and his book in short order. Take a hint from the poor sales and the lack of media coverage.
 
IMO, anyone that wants to know the case will get over Kolar and his book in short order. Take a hint from the poor sales and the lack of media coverage.

Because the R's have no influence over media?
 

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