South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1

[JudgeJudi]

Adv Galloway says next witness coming from Pretoria and the other from Beaufort West.

Botha says it costs his client money if proceedings run only half days.

His bail conditions have been amended, he must report at Muizenberg police station every Friday and Monday.

Court is adjourned until Monday.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...ay-10-20170511

 

[JudgeJudi]

HvB's lawyers look like twin wideboys with their shaven heads!

I am unsure why my previous description of the lawyers was unacceptable. I would have thought the word t*h*u*g*s* was harmless enough!.

I've seen that word removed many times before. It seems unacceptable in the US for some reason.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 24m24 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

Galloway requests that the case be postponed to Monday to make time for witnesses to come from Beaufort West & PTA. Doctors.




the WhatsApp message from Marli's ex-boyfriend 3 weeks before the murders. He says it was a mistake, not meant.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 1h1 hour ago @TimesLIVE

captain tells us about Henri on scene. Henri said he was in bathroom, heard noises, came out bathroom, saw Rudi being axed...Henri screamed, dad came out, was axed, then mother and Marli came out & were axed.


(So HvB told the captain he watched every one of his family members being attacked. This must have been before he made his statement? How can he think anyone would believe this? He said in his statement, he saw Marli and Teresa on the ground already attacked, maybe he changed his mind when he found out Marli survived.)

 

[Interested Bystander]

Although there were no signs of an intruder escaping, there is a possibility, Botha asks. Steyn agrees.

[and pigs may fly]

Botha says a blood spatter expert had been on scene and said he cant exclude that the blood spatter landed on side wall due to object being carried past the area.

There was no blood on Henri's socks, Botha says. Steyn agrees.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...ay-10-20170511

I wonder if Henri changed his socks and possibly 'buried' the old ones? It does seem odd that he had no blood on them. Maybe the police did not do a really thorough search of the property, eg the garden (easily buried), OR the rubbish bins (including the neighbour's) were emptied before it registered it was odd that his socks were clean. Maybe it is possible to flush socks down the loo one at a time - now there is a thought.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I wonder if Henri changed his socks and possibly 'buried' the old ones? It does seem odd that he had no blood on them. Maybe the police did not do a really thorough search of the property, eg the garden (easily buried), OR the rubbish bins (including the neighbour's) were emptied before it registered it was odd that his socks were clean. Maybe it is possible to flush socks down the loo one at a time - now there is a thought.

HvB had a lot of time to alter the crime scene, and flushing the socks down the toilet is very possible. HvB said he ran outside and then came back in, he could have shed the droplets of blood. Also, a mop was used.

The killers were fine with leaving HvB very much alive and the rest of the family dead? (Marli had severe injuries.) And the dog? Hmmmm

 

[JudgeJudi]

There was a waterfall of blood down the stairs. How did HvB avoid this? There are so many holes in this story. I hope Galloway is good because from what we've heard so far she should be able to make mince meat out of him.

And where was the dog? It was supposed to sleep in the bedroom with HvB. Were there paw prints anywhere?

 

[JudgeJudi]

HvB has to report to the police on Fridays and Mondays. Why can't he report to the police station early in the morning and still get to court on time? Court rarely starts at 10.00 and surely they could delay it a little more to give the "poor child" time to fulfil his obligations to the police.

 

[Interested Bystander]

HvB has to report to the police on Fridays and Mondays. Why can't he report to the police station early in the morning and still get to court on time? Court rarely starts at 10.00 and surely they could delay it a little more to give the "poor child" time to fulfil his obligations to the police.

I really don't understand why the police don't insist he resides nearer the court. He is living about 30 miles away at the moment and there is little interconnecting public transport. I think a bus only. Do we know if he is driving himself back and forth? Surely police stations open before 9 am. I am very surprised that so much very expensive court time is wasted by poor organisation/communication. I don't think there have been many days when there has been a full 3 hours in court (allowing for tea break and lunch break). Not surprising that so many people languish in prison in SA whilst awaiting their trial.

 

[Tortoise]

It's possible Henri put his socks on Rudi's feet. Then again who said he was wearing socks during the murders, he could have had bare feet, washed them, and then put socks on afterwards to give himself a clean look.

 

[Tortoise]

Botha states Henri had two bruises\swellings on his face. Superficial wounds on chest & stomach. Blow to under right knee.
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Let's hope the victims had some of his skin or blood under their nails. I expect he got clobbered by them during a struggle causing those facial bruises, and kicked, causing blow to knee. No wonder he said he fell on the stairs.

Four victims, there's hope. I did read there were some defensive injuries, and I doubt any of them would have stuck around to fight with an axe-wielding balaclava-clad intruder. If there is DNA under their nails, it won't be from a black intruder.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It's possible Henri put his socks on Rudi's feet. Then again who said he was wearing socks during the murders, he could have had bare feet, washed them, and then put socks on afterwards to give himself a clean look.

Given the amount of blood there was around it would very unlikely that HvB managed to miss it all. If he had no socks on I would expect to hear there are bare footprints in the blood or on the carpets or maybe he had trainers on the whole time and only took them off after the event. I would still expect there to be splatters of blood given that we are led to believe there was a lot of it about.

Recalling some earlier evidence I now remember that shoe prints had been cleaned off a floor and photographed by the police. Maybe that solves the problem of the clean socks . He took his shoes off at some stage after the blood letting although I am surprised there was no blood at all on his socks, if only the tops. The following article describes this.

http://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/the-independent-on-Saturday/20170506/281633895146400

The photos show cloths and a mop head on the washing line which were later bagged as evidence. Presumably these images refer to count five of the indictment which accuses van Breda of tampering with the crime scene.

Hardly noticeable are the photos of blue black shoe prints that were enhanced with amido black, an acid staining dye that can be used to detect bloody footprints that have been cleaned off a tile floor.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm surprised Precious wasn't asked if she had left the mop and cloths on the washing line.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Botha states Henri had two bruises\swellings on his face. Superficial wounds on chest & stomach. Blow to under right knee.
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Let's hope the victims had some of his skin or blood under their nails. I expect he got clobbered by them during a struggle causing those facial bruises, and kicked, causing blow to knee. No wonder he said he fell on the stairs.

Four victims, there's hope. I did read there were some defensive injuries, and I doubt any of them would have stuck around to fight with an axe-wielding balaclava-clad intruder. If there is DNA under their nails, it won't be from a black intruder.

Lets hope there is DNA evidence left on the victims from their attacker. I also think everything about the attack points to them all knowing it was HvB.
HvB might have thought he could kill each person in their bed without waking the others up. Once Rudi alerted his father, Martin tried to protect his son and tragically died, he may have spoken in Afrikaans which is another reason Teresa would think it's something up with her sons, not any intruders.
Teresa and Marli would have called the police, ran to the neighbours, armed themselves if they thought intruders were in the room/house. I can only think that it suddenly went quiet after shouts in Afrikaan, grunts and moans etc. and HvB then set upon his mother and sister. Why would Teresa ask, 'What's going on?'

 

[Interested Bystander]

Lets hope there is DNA evidence left on the victims from their attacker. I also think everything about the attack points to them all knowing it was HvB.
HvB might have thought he could kill each person in their bed without waking the others up. Once Rudi alerted his father, Martin tried to protect his son and tragically died, he may have spoken in Afrikaans which is another reason Teresa would think it's something up with her sons, not any intruders.
Teresa and Marli would have called the police, ran to the neighbours, armed themselves if they thought intruders were in the room/house. I can only think that it suddenly went quiet after shouts in Afrikaan, grunts and moans etc. and HvB then set upon his mother and sister. Why would Teresa ask, 'What's going on?'

I agree Prime. So much doesn't make sense if HvB didn't do it. Nothing stolen, no drawers/cupboards ransacked. Why would a burglar enter a bedroom when all those "goodies" were on display downstairs.How would a burglar (I assume without a car) have carried anything away from the house and out of the estate without being seen? As you say, why didn't other members of the family raise an alarm - this suggests they must have thought it was Rudi and Henri arguing/fighting? The shoe prints on the floor would have been excellent evidence of an intruder. The fact that RvB had attempted to wash them away incriminates him greatly.

The likelihood of it being anyone else but Henri, IMO, is impossible.

After Jahn's evidence yesterday it looks as though there was a big family argument which caused HvB to flip. Will it be proved he was mentally unstable due to his drug taking? That is the only way I can see him getting less than life. If that was the case why haven't doctors certified him to save a trial?

Can anyone answer the following for me? If HvB is found to be unsound mentally, will he still be able to inherit? I know he cannot if he is of sound mind.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

I agree Prime. So much doesn't make sense if HvB didn't do it. Nothing stolen, no drawers/cupboards ransacked. Why would a burglar enter a bedroom when all those "goodies" were on display downstairs.How would a burglar (I assume without a car) have carried anything away from the house and out of the estate without being seen? As you say, why didn't other members of the family raise an alarm - this suggests they must have thought it was Rudi and Henri arguing/fighting? The shoe prints on the floor would have been excellent evidence of an intruder. The fact that RvB had attempted to wash them away incriminates him greatly.

The likelihood of it being anyone else but Henri, IMO, is impossible.

After Jahn's evidence yesterday it looks as though there was a big family argument which caused HvB to flip. Will it be proved he was mentally unstable due to his drug taking? That is the only way I can see him getting less than life. If that was the case why haven't doctors certified him to save a trial?

Can anyone answer the following for me? If HvB is found to be unsound mentally, will he still be able to inherit? I know he cannot if he is of sound mind.

But the family argument happened on January 10th, more than 2 weeks before the murders. Surely that couldn't be the only reason that HvB flipped? :thinking:

 

[Interested Bystander]

But the family argument happened on January 10th, more than 2 weeks before the murders. Surely that couldn't be the only reason that HvB flipped? :thinking:

Oops thank you Apples. I have gone off at a tangent. An argument on the night of the murders I think has been reported but I didn't register the one that was brought up yesterday was not the one. Lack of concentration on my part. Sorry.

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is the argument that I completely mixed up with Jahn’s message.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...e-debated-while-trial-postponed/#.WRXiIOvytR0

“The indictment further states that a loud argument was heard coming from the Van Breda home on the night of the murders, and that Henri van Breda conducted a Google search for emergency numbers at 04.27, but only called for help some three hours later. “

 

[Interested Bystander]

Interesting short video by Tracey Stewart (a lawyer and media director, I believe) giving her opinion of last week in court. She gives a running commentary on Twitter which we follow on here.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/inside-van-breda-triple-murder-trial-lawyers-perspective-week-2/

 

[Estelle]

[video=youtube;M_XMaP-NdAg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_XMaP-NdAg[/video]