South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Fluffykins]

Thank you so much ladies. I am just catching up. It seems B. Is doing his usual point scoring exercise but I think Desai sees through it for what it is. It is irritating that specimen collection is poor at times but this seems 'par for the course' in SA. I think Botha is making such a huge point of the specimens because he knows his case is so weak he needs to throw as much mud as possible.

(rbbm)

Oh yes, good point. I was thinking what a colossal pain this guy is - are you sure it's a shoe print? where on the blade did you swab from? - but it puts it in a much different light when you think, does he really not have anything better than this to defend his client with?

 

[Tortoise]

The clothing would definitely have been dry. At 4am on 27 Jan 2015 it was 18C.
At 7am it was 21C.

I hope Desai is familiar with drying the washing!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha says on one of the digital photos, a golf cart was standing at the back door. The back door handle was also swabbed for touch DNA. From the back door, one can see the back of the garage. On the left hand side, there was another door on the cement in front of the door, they saw a mark which looked like blood.

Did you look there for blood? Hitchcock said they searched for everything they could find.????

The state has further questions, which will be postponed until tomorrow.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

 

[Tortoise]

We need the trial to be televised. No idea whether the state has totally lost this - it does sound like it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Adv B: I just want to fully place the basis upon which we will bring the application later on

Problem with description of test we have also been informed,we asked for the test sticks(it shows discoloration if blood detected) to be made available or photos. We were informed that they were not kept so we need to test her.

discrepancy between what she says she received versus what witnesses testify they received

Thats it for today, we adjourn till 10am tomorrow

 

[JudgeJudi]

Did they test the clothing on the line for blood?

"Chlorine bleaches can remove a Bloodstain to the naked eye but fortunately, forensics experts can use the application of substances such as luminol or phenolphthalein to show that haemoglobin is present. In fact, even if the shady criminal washed a bloodstained item of clothing 10 times, these chemicals could still reveal blood".

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/detecting-evidence-after-bleaching.html

 

[Tortoise]

So what are we all thinking?

I'm wondering why the state isn't calling W.O. Nel. I wish we had some better reporting on this.

 

[Tortoise]

Did they test the clothing on the line for blood?

"Chlorine bleaches can remove a Bloodstain to the naked eye but fortunately, forensics experts can use the application of substances such as luminol or phenolphthalein to show that haemoglobin is present. In fact, even if the shady criminal washed a bloodstained item of clothing 10 times, these chemicals could still reveal blood".

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/detecting-evidence-after-bleaching.html

Just the items on the line sound fishy to me.

Mop, cloths, t-shirt and sock.

Would Teresa or whoever did the laundry wash just one t-shirt and sock and not the entire contents of the laundry hamper?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Galloway needs to ring Precious and ask if she did any washing on the 26th. If not, Galloway needs to ask Hitchcock if the T-shirt and sock were tested for blood residue.

While I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to this, it seems that with the leave of the court, in certain circumstances, a witness who has been excused may be recalled.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Galloway wants to submit an affidavit by Warrant Officer Lorraine Nel, Botha says she needs to be in court to testify so that she can be cross examined.

Botha says she examined some of these exhibits by means of a process requiring competence in biology.

Doesn't say what she did. Presumptive test, reliability and further questions around that.

Galloway says a DNA expert will also be called.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-24-20170607

I just realised I missed this last item.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This was posted on fb page who are also following HvB trial.


Mario Kellers (27 yrs old) on 27 July, 1999 at his parent's home in South Africa, killed his mother, Aletta, his grandmother, Martie Erasmus and his best friend, Marius Snyman with an axe. He also attacked his father Colin who survived but died a few years later from a heart attack.
Kellers was found guilty and sentenced to a pitiful 16 yrs jail.

While in prison a woman called Carol (a friend of his ex-wife) encouraged his daughter to visit so they could continue a relationship, while visiting regularly Carol and Mario became close.
Carol even went to court to help free him, he was paroled in 2012 and they married. In July, 2014, Mario and Carol fought over his continuing drug use and he stabbed her to death. He was sentenced to 18 yrs jail.


Excerpt from article (dated 9 July, 2015) about the day Mario attacked his family with an axe -

He and Marius had taken drugs that day, and it was his craving for more drugs and the refusal of his dad, Colin, (then 59), to give him money for drugs that sparked the killing spree.
"All I recall is standing in the bedroom doorway with a vegetable knife in my hand. I only wanted to give my father a fright. The next thing I recall is standing over my father with an axe in my hand. He was begging me not to kill him. I had already attacked my mother, granny and best friend.
Jeandre (Mario's 3 yr old daughter) was in the house at the time but wasn't harmed. Colin survived but died a few years later from a heart attack.

After Mario was jailed for the murders, he and Jeandre's mom, Chanel (now Van Wyk), divorced. In jail he continued taking drugs, including crack cocaine.

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/you-south-africa/20150709/281685433502594

 

[PrimeSuspect]

So what are we all thinking?

I'm wondering why the state isn't calling W.O. Nel. I wish we had some better reporting on this.

I'm thinking, what a mess! If only this was televised we could get a better feel of what's happening. Botha does have a way of intimidating the witnesses, he did the same in the Dewani trial and was never pulled up for it, btw. The witnesses become flustered and agree with him even though they probably don't. :facepalm: It took a while for Galloway to interject.

I'm reminding myself of what J Desai said, he's an experienced judge, not a jury.
Botha working too hard to convince the judge where there are reasonable explanations or enough proof he can't deny or cast away.

 

[Tortoise]

Strangely, I do sense that the case is in competent hands with Galloway. I think she's a dark horse.

 

[Tortoise]

Those pics Soekie posted earlier have been removed but I made a mental note of the room diagrams and have made my own drawing of it. (Excuse the bad drawing skills!)

The one on the left is how HvB's room was depicted, and the one on the right is how I believe the beds would have been positioned, because the wall with the balcony isn't wide enough for two double beds. It's the balcony shown in the following photo, at the front of the house with the garages. In fact, I've just realised it was a single balcony door, not a double one as I've drawn it. The parents bedroom also had its bed positioned on the same corresponding wall.

photo link http://lekkerblog.co.za/take-a-look...murder-house-in-de-zalze-stellenbosch-photos/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Those pics Soekie posted earlier have been removed but I made a mental note of the room diagrams and have made my own drawing of it. (Excuse the bad drawing skills!)

The one on the left is how HvB's room was depicted, and the one on the right is how I believe the beds would have been positioned, because the wall with the balcony isn't wide enough for two double beds. It's the balcony shown in the following photo, at the front of the house with the garages. In fact, I've just realised it was a single balcony door, not a double one as I've drawn it. The parents bedroom also had its bed positioned on the same corresponding wall.

photo link http://lekkerblog.co.za/take-a-look...murder-house-in-de-zalze-stellenbosch-photos/

Interesting photos. The link to the multiple photos shows the en suite bathroom to have glass walls. That would mean the intruder would be able to see Henri. Henri was playing games on his phone (IIRC) whilst sitting on the toilet. The light from the games would have illuminated him, I feel sure. This makes his story even more unbelievable.

http://lekkerblog.co.za/take-a-look...murder-house-in-de-zalze-stellenbosch-photos/

 

[Soekie]

Thank you everybody

:welcome4:

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting photos. The link to the multiple photos shows the en suite bathroom to have glass walls. That would mean the intruder would be able to see Henri. Henri was playing games on his phone (IIRC) whilst sitting on the toilet. The light from the games would have illuminated him, I feel sure. This makes his story even more unbelievable.

http://lekkerblog.co.za/take-a-look...murder-house-in-de-zalze-stellenbosch-photos/

I thought it was a glass shower cubicle inside the bathroom. The other thing is I think it might be the en suite bathroom to the parent's bedroom rather than HvB's. Only because they showed a photo of the parent's bedroom.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I thought it was a glass shower cubicle inside the bathroom. The other thing is I think it might be the en suite bathroom to the parent's bedroom rather than HvB's. Only because they showed a photo of the parent's bedroom.

Could be. I think each end of the house maybe mirror imaged but I agree I would not expect a glass walled bathroom other than in a couple's bedroom. I will go and have another look. I think probably both bedrooms had the same type of balcony.

EDIT You are right tortoise, it looks like a glass sided shower. Puts my theory to bed LOL! I am so keen to find falt with his story I got carried away. So we still don't really know the layout of the boys' room or is the drawing you posted definitely correct?

 

[Tortoise]

Could be. I think each end of the house maybe mirror imaged but I agree I would not expect a glass walled bathroom other than in a couple's bedroom. I will go and have another look. I think probably both bedrooms had the same type of balcony.

EDIT You are right tortoise, it looks like a glass sided shower. Puts my theory to bed LOL! I am so keen to find falt with his story I got carried away. So we still don't really know the layout of the boys' room or is the drawing you posted definitely correct?

The one on the left is like the drawing Soekie posted (just walls and door positions) and in the one on the right I've put in the beds on what I think is the only long enough wall for two double beds.

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Is Henri van Breda’s defence counsel‚ Piet Botha‚ building a case that the collection of forensic material at the Van Breda home was compromised?[/h]
“I know we are labouring the point‚ but what’s to come is absolutely crucial‚” he told Desai. But the afternoon proceedings failed to produced a bombshell.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...-on-collection-of-evidence-from-De-Zalze-home