South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[JudgeJudi]

Night night everyone. I think this week is going to be very challenging for all of us.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Where is everyone? I found this latter evidence really interesting. I was very surprised earlier on in the trial to learn that Rudi's body was found near the door to the bathroom after he'd been so savagely attacked. His bed was furthest from the bathroom.

According to Henri, Martin threw himself over Rudi and Martin was then attacked from behind. This means that Rudi had to crawl out from underneath his father's body, get to the floor and drag himself along the floor towards the bathroom. The evidence must have been obvious to Joubert that he had in fact been dragged. Cross-examination is going to be riveting.

It will be fascinating to hear from HvB or Botha how blood from Rudi, Henry and Teresa all ended up in various locations in the shower. HvB never said in his Initial Statement or Plea Explanation that he showered or washed off any blood before going downstairs.

All very interesting JJ. I also don't recall HvB admitting to anything other than peering through the bathroom door and later attempting to take the knife from the non-existent intruder. I think HvB did say at some stage that he did not touch the bodies at all, unless I am misremembering (always a possibility). Rudi being moved one assumes for some nefarious reason is very strange. What on earth was HvB attempting to do?

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-blood-splatter-expert/

This is a link to Traceyams (Tracey Stewart) report, which is always worth a read. However, she seems to suggest that Henri said he was standing near his brother and father when they were attacked. Is this correct? My memory recalls that Henri stated he was peeping through the door of the bathroom when Rudi and Martin were being attacked. There is no way blood spurts from them could have ended up on his shorts and socks if this were to be true.

Tracey is normally spot on so have I missed/forgotten something? Has anyone else read that Henri was standing nearby R and M. Tracey says it was in his “version”. I do not have that to hand but will track it down.

Found it. Henri said he was standing close to the end of his bed when his father was attacked.

http://www.news24.com/You/Archive/t...-attacked-by-a-laughing-axe-murderer-20170728

AND (as I remember it)

"In court on Monday the 21-year-old pleaded not guilty, claiming he watched helpless through a crack in a bathroom door as a silhouetted man wielding an axe murdered his loved ones."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...parents-axe-murder-testify.html#ixzz4sPA7JfU6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[L2L]

Sterling work JJ, many thanks.

Seconded by me! Many thanks, JJ!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Where is everyone? I found this latter evidence really interesting. I was very surprised earlier on in the trial to learn that Rudi's body was found near the door to the bathroom after he'd been so savagely attacked. His bed was furthest from the bathroom.

According to Henri, Martin threw himself over Rudi and Martin was then attacked from behind. This means that Rudi had to crawl out from underneath his father's body, get to the floor and drag himself along the floor towards the bathroom. The evidence must have been obvious to Joubert that he had in fact been dragged. Cross-examination is going to be riveting.

It will be fascinating to hear from HvB or Botha how blood from Rudi, Henry and Teresa all ended up in various locations in the shower. HvB never said in his Initial Statement or Plea Explanation that he showered or washed off any blood before going downstairs.

Thank you :tyou: JJ for tweets, I'm sorry I wasn't here but have up caught now, will be here today! I feel sick too after reading all this blood splatter. Lucky I didn't bring tea and cakes. It stirs the anger in me again for this young man, he's bad to the bone!
I wonder what HvB was attempting to do with moving Rudi, I think this is called 'setting the scene'. HvB was probably going to have a different story but changed his mind when Marli was found very much alive.
Maybe he wanted to blame Rudi for the massacre!!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Henri #vanbreda is back in court today for the state's last witness: the SAPS blood splatter expert, capt. Joubert.

(his baby face expression isn't fooling anyone!!)

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Capt. Marius Joubert is sworn in and states he has 27 years experience.

Capt. Joubert is reading through his C.V. Henri has a writing pad in front of him, pen ready to go.

Joubert has been a crime scene investigator since 1993. Joubert takes us through his report on the #vanbreda case.

Joubert has compiled a presentation to show the court how he has come to his findings.

Graphic material will be shown in Joubert's presentation. TV cameras are to be switched off. Court adj to setup screen.

Capt. Joubert begins presentation. Joubert runs through protocol on how he performs BSA (blood splatter analysis). I will tweet when it refers to case specifically.

Now we get to the #vanbreda case. Joubert tended to scene at 2pm after the murders. Joubert running through blood stains found in house. Capt.Joubert is speaking softly & quickly.
Hard to decipher but will tweet when we get to blood evidence thats significant to case.

While we try decipher Capt. Joubert's testimony, here's a photo of the state's team today.



J: Possible blood found in shower: on door handle, shower cap, floor, wall,where floor & wall meet-could be Henri, Rudi &Teresa's blood.

Big questions: If in fact blood in shower: why was it there? who did it belong to? is it a sign that someone tried to wash blood off? We are adjourned for lunch. Everyone looks grateful. We will return to a more simplified testimony after lunch.

I asked Adv Galloway for a copy of Joubert's report. She pointed to a massive file,about 10cms thick. Will be a long testimony.

J: Henri's shorts: 67 blood stains found. 35 stains belonged to Rudi. 9 belonged to Henri. 5 stains belonged to Martin, 0 from Marli.

NB: The rest of the stains were mixtures (Teresa, Rudi, Henri). According to Joubert, all family's blood found on Henri's shorts except Marli's.

J: Henri's socks - 17 blood stains found: 9 from Henri, 1 from Martin, 1 from Teresa, 2 from Rudi. No blood found on grey towel found on scene.

J: Grey duvet - 8 blood stains tested. only Rudi's blood found on duvet.

Henri drops his ring that he has been playing with throughout trial, makes a loud noise. Botha gives him stern look, he blushes.

Joubert says Sgt. Kleynhans (1st on scene) told him that Marli moved right arm after hearing Kleynhans make SOS call.

J: Rudi was dragged from his bed to the foot of Henri's bed and in front of bathroom entrance (not sure who moved him).

Henri takes notes while Joubert testifies about his family's blood found in their home. He seems focused, following report.

J: Henri's grey shorts were exposed to multiple blood shedding events. Henri's socks exposed to multiple blood shedding events.

 

[JudgeJudi]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

B: Implore your lordship, should you grant postponement there must be finality in this matter

Desai would like to consider courts position in respect of this application for postponement in light of it being 2nd occasion


(Defence are now in a hurry, funds running out? So Botha wants it wrapped up immediately?) :fishy:

After Joubert's evidence yesterday, it's patently obvious why Botha wanted the case wrapped up then and there.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm currently reading through #vanbreda tweets, Nick van der Leek is following, he's drawn a logical conclusion (paraphrased), 'moving a victim suggests the perp lives at the premises'.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Desai should tell the defence to open their case if they want something to do this week.

I know this issue is redundant now, but the defence can't open their case until the State has closed its case. The State may only reopen its case with the leave of the court under exceptional circumstances, and an ill witness would not fall into this category.

 

[JudgeJudi]

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-blood-splatter-expert/

This is a link to Traceyams (Tracey Stewart) report, which is always worth a read. However, she seems to suggest that Henri said he was standing near his brother and father when they were attacked. Is this correct? My memory recalls that Henri stated he was peeping through the door of the bathroom when Rudi and Martin were being attacked. There is no way blood spurts from them could have ended up on his shorts and socks if this were to be true.

Tracey is normally spot on so have I missed/forgotten something? Has anyone else read that Henri was standing nearby R and M. Tracey says it was in his “version”. I do not have that to hand but will track it down.

Found it. Henri said he was standing close to the end of his bed when his father was attacked.

http://www.news24.com/You/Archive/t...-attacked-by-a-laughing-axe-murderer-20170728

AND (as I remember it)

"In court on Monday the 21-year-old pleaded not guilty, claiming he watched helpless through a crack in a bathroom door as a silhouetted man wielding an axe murdered his loved ones."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...parents-axe-murder-testify.html#ixzz4sPA7JfU6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sorry for the length but it should all be included. This is what he said:

Initial Statement:

5
While I was inside the toilet I heard a noise from outside and can also hear that the noise was coming from my room where my brother was also sleeping because the noise was close. I opened the toilet door slightly and saw in the dark that someone was hitting RUDI. I then stand there afraid to go out of the toilet. I then started to shout for help. My father then arrived at the room and turned on the lights and I then saw that this person had an axe in his hand and that was the item that he was hitting RUDI with on the bed. My father MARTIN then saw the whole thing happening and my father then jumped on the person and then the person started to assault the father with the axe. RUDI was just lying on the bed while this person was hitting my father with the axe. I was still standing in the bedroom with the lights on looking of what is happening in front of me. My father then collapse in my room where this person was attacking him.

Plea Explanation

"I opened the bathroom door and looked in the direction of the banging sounds which emanated from the vicinity of Rudi’s bed. I could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between our two beds) or partially on Rudi’s bed. This person was busy attacking Rudi with an object which later transpired to be an axe. I initially stood frozen, trying to comprehend what was going on. I shouted for help, hoping to attract attention. I cannot remember what words I used. I also cannot recall whether I remained in the same position throughout the attack on Rudi.

The bedroom light was suddenly switched on and my Dad came into the room. At this stage the attack with the axe on Rudi was still going on. As far as I could see, the attacker was dressed in dark clothes and he wore gloves and a balaclava type of mask. My dad immediately moved towards and onto the bed, over Rudi, towards the attacker who was on the opposite side of the bed. It looked as if he was trying to tackle the attacker or at least get between the attacker and Rudi. However, my Dad was struck with the axe as he lunged towards the attacker. His body went limp on the bed and I did not see him move again. Despite this, he was hit a number of times by the attacker with the axe. I also recall that the attacker was laughing whilst he attacked my Dad.

I suddenly heard my Mum’s voice outside my room saying, “Wat gaan hier aan?” [What's going on here?] I assumed that the attacker must have heard it too because he then left the room. I could not see what happened outside the room as my view of the door was obstructed by our bedroom wall. The attacker remained outside my field of vision for some time. I am unsure how long but it was not long. I cannot recall whether I heard any sound of an attack on my Mum outside of our room. The attacker then came back into the room and slowly came at me. At that stage I was standing close to the bottom of my bed. He was laughing and seemed almost unconcerned about my presence".

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yesterday I read a tweet by a journo who was in court who asked for a copy of J's report and he was told it was 10cm thick!!! It will be released when Joubert's report has been read into the proceedings. 10cm suggests it is going to take several days for this to be done.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sorry for the length but it should all be included. This is what he said:

Initial Statement:

5
While I was inside the toilet I heard a noise from outside and can also hear that the noise was coming from my room where my brother was also sleeping because the noise was close. I opened the toilet door slightly and saw in the dark that someone was hitting RUDI. I then stand there afraid to go out of the toilet. I then started to shout for help. My father then arrived at the room and turned on the lights and I then saw that this person had an axe in his hand and that was the item that he was hitting RUDI with on the bed. My father MARTIN then saw the whole thing happening and my father then jumped on the person and then the person started to assault the father with the axe. RUDI was just lying on the bed while this person was hitting my father with the axe. I was still standing in the bedroom with the lights on looking of what is happening in front of me. My father then collapse in my room where this person was attacking him.

Plea Explanation

"I opened the bathroom door and looked in the direction of the banging sounds which emanated from the vicinity of Rudi’s bed. I could make out the silhouette of someone standing next to (between our two beds) or partially on Rudi’s bed. This person was busy attacking Rudi with an object which later transpired to be an axe. I initially stood frozen, trying to comprehend what was going on. I shouted for help, hoping to attract attention. I cannot remember what words I used. I also cannot recall whether I remained in the same position throughout the attack on Rudi.

The bedroom light was suddenly switched on and my Dad came into the room. At this stage the attack with the axe on Rudi was still going on. As far as I could see, the attacker was dressed in dark clothes and he wore gloves and a balaclava type of mask. My dad immediately moved towards and onto the bed, over Rudi, towards the attacker who was on the opposite side of the bed. It looked as if he was trying to tackle the attacker or at least get between the attacker and Rudi. However, my Dad was struck with the axe as he lunged towards the attacker. His body went limp on the bed and I did not see him move again. Despite this, he was hit a number of times by the attacker with the axe. I also recall that the attacker was laughing whilst he attacked my Dad.

I suddenly heard my Mum’s voice outside my room saying, “Wat gaan hier aan?” [What's going on here?] I assumed that the attacker must have heard it too because he then left the room. I could not see what happened outside the room as my view of the door was obstructed by our bedroom wall. The attacker remained outside my field of vision for some time. I am unsure how long but it was not long. I cannot recall whether I heard any sound of an attack on my Mum outside of our room. The attacker then came back into the room and slowly came at me. At that stage I was standing close to the bottom of my bed. He was laughing and seemed almost unconcerned about my presence".

Excellent JJ. Thank you. Quite clearly there is some ambiguity in his description of events.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes, it's what we've been waiting for, isn't it. I gathered from a previous post by Tortoise that HvB doesn't have to give evidence, and I bet after this he won't.

Apologies for my lack of participation, I've had a tooth extraction/bone graft today, not up to much this evening.

This is a rather weighty topic so I’ll try and keep it brief. An accused in most countries has a constitutional right to silence and a court cannot convict solely on the basis of an inference drawn from a failure to give evidence. Judges are prepared to acknowledge that silence in the face of incriminating evidence may rationally be used to infer guilt. However, failure to do so will allow the court to draw such inferences as appear proper from a failure to give evidence or refusal to answer questions without good cause.

The threat that the adverse inference poses to due process should not be overstated. The question for the judge/jury is whether silence can only be attributed to the accused having no satisfactory answer to the charge against him.

Adverse inferences may be drawn where before or on being charged, the accused fails to mention any fact which he later relies on and which in the circumstances at the time he could reasonably be expected to mention or fails to give evidence at trial or answer any question. Whether he enters the witness box remains his choice, however, the choice has consequences.

Many think that an accused’s electing not to testify is probative of his guilt. This flows from an assumption about human nature – that an innocent accused would act from a desire for self- preservation and want an opportunity to declare and prove his innocence, while a guilty accused would be concerned about revealing his guilt.

Botha said, “My client is chomping at the bit to tell his version”, and pigs may fly. I wonder if his client is feeling the same way now that he's heard the evidence of Otto and Joubert, not to mention other very incriminating evidence.

On a different note, I hope you're feeling a bit better today Fluffykins. That sounded like an awful procedure. :hug:

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

(his baby face expression isn't fooling anyone!!)

Babyface? Maybe once upon a time, but certainly not now. He looks like one mean dude to me.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Previously I wondered how it was even possible that Rudi was capable of moving anywhere, let alone to the location of his body, having regard to his injuries. After Joubert’s statement that the bloodstain pattern suggests Rudi was grabbed or moved from the bed over carpet between the beds towards the door, I wondered how he reached this conclusion.

Blood was obviously flowing from his head for some time. If he dragged himself out of bed and along the floor, his arms from the elbows down, torso and legs would have had blood on them as he passed over the blood coming from his extensive head wounds, and yet to date we’ve only heard the shorts mentioned.

After conducting a little experiment with the aid of my hubby, I think I’ve come up with a possible reason for Joubert’s statement. If Henri dragged Rudi from the bed onto the floor, stood in front of him and grabbed him either under the armpits or by his wrists and pulled him, Rudi’s arms and torso wouldn’t have touched the floor at all. As HvB is quite tall, as he started to drag Rudi, his torso would be lifted up from the floor but his body from the waist down would pass through the blood. His arms would be off the floor and would be free of blood other than perhaps some spatter.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Rudi van Breda's body was dragged or moved after being axed - expert

We continue with blood stain pattern analyst Captain Joubert this morning.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

 

[Tortoise]

Morning all.

This is a really really rushed post, sorry I can't be here with you for the most part of this week.

I had a listen to Joubert's afternoon recording very late last night. He isn't the easiest person to listen to but it's more informative than the tweets. Recording here [video=youtube;TTgkiR0oesk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTgkiR0oesk[/video]

Court reporters did a good job but missed some details.

Henry is not just toast, now he's fried too!

HvB said in his initial statement that he didn't come out of the toilet until after the assault on Teresa!

Joubert said (paraphrasing) the spatter on his socks was from being in close proximity to the attack on Teresa.

He also said the duvet was moved off Henri's bed after the attacks, and was found on the floor close by Rudi (at the foot of the bed). On the left bottom corner of Henri's duvet was a pattern of the sharp edge of the knife blade with Rudi's blood! He also said the knife edge was clean.

Lastly he said in his annexure he explains why he doesn't think the attacks happened in a sequence! (from my memory - maybe not his exact words). I'll see if I can transcribe the relevant portions tonight.

I'm sorry I have to love you and leave you. Catch up later..T

 

[bleuboy]

I really need to take a note of what time things start in my time zone. I'm confusing the times up all the time

 

[JudgeJudi]

Julian Jansen Retweeted
Quinton Mtyala‏@mtyala · 2h2 hours ago

67 blood spatter stains on Van Breda's shorts https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/67-blood-spatter-stains-on-van-bredas-shorts-11174884 … via @IOL

Hahahaha! :floorlaugh:

Can some bright spark suggest what HvB is thinking here.

https://twitter.com/JulianJansen