Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[BobbleBob]

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IMO people who go into the backcountry expecting others to provide basics (like a lot of ultra-lighters) are very dangerous. I try not to stick around them.
I don't think ED was in the ultralight category, though. I think maybe she just (for want of a better word) liked being a parasite. More basically, perhaps, "she liked being dependent".

BBM

This is something that I’ve been thinking about since I seen the video shared on the first thread where ED spoke about getting lost on a bike ride and running out of food and having no phone to call for help. While she spoke about being prepared all I could think of as I listened to her was that she felt asking for food was always an option as she felt that she could rely on the help of strangers vs being prepared herself.

Perhaps this is something that she did do on a regular basis when out on her own? Perhaps she tried to travel lighter on her own as DC wasn’t there to carry some of the load? Perhaps she’d ran out, or was running out of money, and did not have enough money left to afford the food she would have needed while keeping a reserve to get herself and the motor home back to DC in France. Her previous reliance on the generosity of strangers may have taught her that it works, but with few to no other hikers up there she may not have been able to get any food.

 

[otto]

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She's a 37 year old who lived a nomadic life for 6 years. It's possible that she lost her sense of the obligation that everyone provide for themselves in the backcountry. Maybe one reason she hiked up later in the day was to ask those descending the trail for leftover food.

I'm curious about their financial situation. At some point, the money runs out. Perhaps she had a tight budget for food. She does appear happy and healthy in photos.

 

[RickshawFan]

<ModSnip>



BBM

This is something that I’ve been thinking about since I seen the video shared on the first thread where ED spoke about getting lost on a bike ride and running out of food and having no phone to call for help. While she spoke about being prepared all I could think of as I listened to her was that she felt asking for food was always an option as she felt that she could rely on the help of strangers vs being prepared herself.

Perhaps this is something that she did do on a regular basis when out on her own? Perhaps she tried to travel lighter on her own as DC wasn’t there to carry some of the load? Perhaps she’d ran out, or was running out of money, and did not have enough money left to afford the food she would have needed while keeping a reserve to get herself and the motor home back to DC in France. Her previous reliance on the generosity of strangers may have taught her that it works, but with few to no other hikers up there she may not have been able to get any food.[/QUOTE]

If any of those situations were true, she coulda just hopped in her van and headed home. She didn't have to be in the mountains.

 

[BobbleBob]

If any of those situations were true, she coulda just hopped in her van and headed home. She didn't have to be in the mountains.

True, but would she be willing to do that and have to admit that her nomadic lifestyle might be over? Maybe she just wanted to finish her one last hike (before returning to lockdown France), to push herself one last time (bivvie one more time), or just didn’t want to return a failure for not completing her planned route?

 

[otto]

True, but would she be willing to do that and have to admit that her nomadic lifestyle might be over? Maybe she just wanted to finish her one last hike (before returning to lockdown France), to push herself one last time (bivvie one more time), or just didn’t want to return a failure for not completing her planned route?

BBM

People all over the world would love to do as they please just once during lockdown, but most play by the rules. The sooner everyone does the right thing, the sooner lockdown ends.

We know that Esther was aware of pending lockdown in France when she drove the van across the border to Spain. She drove from lockdown to no-lockdown, then planned to hike into France in violation of lockdown law. She found a way to get around the rules. Her partner stayed in France at the house that was available to them during lockdown.

She could resume her nomadic lifestyle when the virus is under control. Not hiking into France would not be a failure, it would be respecting French law.

Asking people who are descending the trails for food might be another form of getting around the rules.

 

[RickshawFan]

True, but would she be willing to do that and have to admit that her nomadic lifestyle might be over? Maybe she just wanted to finish her one last hike (before returning to lockdown France), to push herself one last time (bivvie one more time), or just didn’t want to return a failure for not completing her planned route?

There's wants and then there's needs. I'm thinking maybe ED hadn't figured this out, and the problem played out for her in the mountains where the risks of getting confused about what's a want and what's a need are astronomically higher and jeopardize everyone who's out there with you.

 

[otto]

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It important to think about the intended outcome. Knowing that Esther asked people for food during more than one hike doesn't necessarily contribute to locating her body. It does tell us more about who she is and how she approaches backcountry hiking.

SAR know that she surprised another hiker by heading to the summit late in the afternoon when most are descending the mountain. That correlates with taking risks that most people avoid - such as a late afternoon summit hike.

 

[Curious-A]

She's a 37 year old who lived a nomadic life for 6 years. It's possible that she lost her sense of the obligation that everyone provide for themselves in the backcountry. Maybe one reason she hiked up later in the day was to ask those descending the trail for leftover food.

I'm curious about their financial situation. At some point, the money runs out. Perhaps she had a tight budget for food. She does appear happy and healthy in photos.

Yes, great points, Otto! Perhaps it was a combination of factors that had her asking for food from descending hikers. It may have become kind of a "game" to her for whatever reason... to keep testing human generosity( making her feel good/ restoring her faith in humanity kind of thing as alluded to in her video when she went biking w/o a phone) or maybe as you said it was a way to stretch her and DC's food budget... she could save what she brought up with her and eat the "donated" food or vice versa ( seemed she was very concerned about being overcharged for the chia seeds). It's almost like when one asks for a discount or negotiates a lower price or add ons on big ticket items like a car or furniture or on cash purchases etc. It's hard to stop asking because 9/10 times you will get a discount and that outcome and feeling can become "addictive".

 

[otto]

Yes, great points, Otto! Perhaps it was a combination of factors that had her asking for food from descending hikers. It may have become kind of a "game" to her for whatever reason... to keep testing human generosity( making her feel good/ restoring her faith in humanity kind of thing as alluded to in her video when she went biking w/o a phone) or maybe as you said it was a way to stretch her and DC's food budget... she could save what she brought up with her and eat the "donated" food or vice versa ( seemed she was very concerned about being overcharged for the chia seeds). It's almost like when one asks for a discount or negotiates a lower price or add ons on big ticket items like a car or furniture or on cash purchases etc. It's hard to stop asking because 9/10 times you will get a discount and that outcome and feeling can become "addictive".

The chia seed cost discussion tells us that she was not shy about standing her ground when she believed something to be true. She believed there was a discount, the teacher who spoke French helped her understand, whereby she was satisfied. Still, chia seed discount seems hardly worth the discussion since the savings would be a small difference.

She asks descending hikers for leftover food. I suspect the olympian had food although he told her he did not. High performance athletes usually have a couple of energy snack bars or mixed dried fruit/nuts on hand just in case.

If she had enough food, she wouldn't want food from others as it would mean carrying extra food during her hike and then back to her van. Does that mean that she only asked because she needed food?

 

[Puzzles]

If ED was in need of food, I'd expect she was aware of that prior to her chance encounter with descending hikers. Surely she would have returned to the camper had her need been urgent, rather than rely on finding benevolent strangers.
Also, wasn't the hike on Nov. 22 Day One of a planned longer venture? With inadequate provisions for even the first day? If this shows her customary level of preparation, it's surprising her solo hikes throughout the previous month were apparently uneventful.

 

[RickshawFan]

It important to think about the intended outcome. Knowing that Esther asked people for food during more than one hike doesn't necessarily contribute to locating her body. It does tell us more about who she is and how she approaches backcountry hiking.

SAR know that she surprised another hiker by heading to the summit late in the afternoon when most are descending the mountain. That correlates with taking risks that most people avoid - such as a late afternoon summit hike.

This brings me to a point I have been on the verge of...IMO what happened in this wilderness depends on psychology. What we are working towards in this thread is speculation based on how the missing hiker’s mind works. The solution isn’t exactly in facts which is where we started.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

IMO people who go into the backcountry expecting others to provide basics (like a lot of ultra-lighters) are very dangerous. I try not to stick around them.
I don't think ED was in the ultralight category, though. I think maybe she just (for want of a better word) liked being a parasite. More basically, perhaps, "she liked being dependent".

I think it's a very strange thing to do and inappropriate. Especially when you don't even speak the same language. Responsible people pack for what they need with some extras in case of emergency. So Esther was taking food that someone else could have needed if they got into trouble.

 

[RickshawFan]

If ED was in need of food, I'd expect she was aware of that prior to her chance encounter with descending hikers. Surely she would have returned to the camper had her need been urgent, rather than rely on finding benevolent strangers.
Also, wasn't the hike on Nov. 22 Day One of a planned longer venture? With inadequate provisions for even the first day? If this shows her customary level of preparation, it's surprising her solo hikes throughout the previous month were apparently uneventful.

To give some context... I once set out on a backpack trip for 3 days or so. Kind of like ED. The terrain was somewhat similar, but not as high. I was properly equipped, had my food and everything.
An hour or so up the trail, I sat down by a nice waterfall to have my lunch. My doggie had some too.
Next thing I knew, I had eaten my ENTIRE 3-day food supply. I guess I didn’t pack enough. Oops.
I had to hike right back out. No food, no trip.

***
IMO it’s not okay to be depending on others for necessities on the trail. The only exception—I’m asking for a little indulgence here—thru hikers (these are end-to-enders on national ultra-distance trails, and ED was categorically not one of these.... ) Anyway, if you come across a thru hiker who is crazy for food, do not assume they didn’t bring any! Thru hikers never get un-hungry, lol. They burn so many calories, and all they can think about is food. So offer them all you’ve got!

 

[otto]

If ED was in need of food, I'd expect she was aware of that prior to her chance encounter with descending hikers. Surely she would have returned to the camper had her need been urgent, rather than rely on finding benevolent strangers.
Also, wasn't the hike on Nov. 22 Day One of a planned longer venture? With inadequate provisions for even the first day? If this shows her customary level of preparation, it's surprising her solo hikes throughout the previous month were apparently uneventful.

I agree. Hiking up later in the day guarantees that anyone else on the mountain is descending. It's more typical to ascend in the morning, lunch up top, descend in the afternoon, end before sunset. In Esther's case, descending in the afternoon meant arriving at the Refuge de Venasque around 5:00 PM.

Maybe she expected others to break covid rules, that she would meet other hikers at the refuge in France. France trails were desserted.

It's as though we are all privately mourning her death and wondering about her last minutes.

 

[otto]

It almost comes down to how is her death meaningful. Sounds absurd to say it like that, but what was her story that led the Dutch British 37 year old to her death in the Pyrenees in Nov 2020? Perhaps she was conquering the Pyrenees, but that doesn't mean she can do mountains.

The Netherlands does not have hills and UK hills are not mountains. What next - Esther from flatland is at the top of the world, but wait, getting that high is just the beginning?

 

[otto]

Just an opinion, but asking fellow hostellers and hikers for food is a bit in the verboten zone. Predictable, but not supported.

 

[RickshawFan]

Just an opinion, but asking fellow hostellers and hikers for food is a bit in the verboten zone. Predictable, but not supported.

Since she had two targets (that we know of) react uncomfortably, this would definitely be true. Plus, she’d be risky for hikers to be around; recipe for getting shunned IMO.
This situation didn’t seem odd to me before. Now it seems VERY odd.
Plus, it made me very certain that an accident occurred, because there’s now evidence she regularly engaged in risky behavior.

 

[patCee]

ED's life, prior to the past 6 years of travel had been highly disciplined throughout her life. This is evident by her achievements in education and sport. She describes buying their first home with DC's savings and a loan from her parents, the latter to be paid back with interest, implying how these family values had instilled a high sense of self responsibility. They had full time employment and filled spare time with various other projects requiring so many demands.
Their 6 year travels were also disciplined, with every aspect worked out in detail e.g. every penny spent was written down, food carefully planned.
During their travels she writes about challenging herself. She also commented about connecting with people, that 'giving' is pleasing, but also about a need to learn to receive from others. It's probably, spending so much time alone, she seemed a sensitive, caring person, becoming increasingly introspective, and feeling she had to learn/experiment how to connect with others, and to push herself with new challenges.
Some of the psychological issues may explain some of her less disciplined actions, but generally she seemed safety conscious and was not an inexperienced hiker. My take is that she over challenged herself by sleeping out in inappropriate conditions, needed to find more suitable shelter, lost the trail and as a consequence lost her life in a terrible accident.

 

[jsoap]

This clipping was posted on the Luchon FB page.
So there are two confirmed cases (albeit 100 years ago) of people falling off the top of Sauvegarde, and into a ravine 300m below.

 

[Tanzanite]

I'm struck by something that a pp said upthread (apologies for not rooting out the quote), about experience not equating to responsibility (my paraphrasing). That seems to resonate here across several aspects of this case.

The asking for food thing - Esther would probably not have been 'busted' on her habit of approaching strangers for food if it wasn't for her sad disappearance. Each person she asked might assume they were the first and only party approached for spare food. I can't quite form a crystallised opinion on this - I've hovered on the edges of climbing/mountaineering/hiking circles for years, and taken a few trips to similar regions. I have experienced a sort of camaraderie, with people of a similar mind sharing their stories and discussing routes/equipment etc. over a few drinks and food or whatever, but that's in season and pre-Covid.

I have to say that in a fair few years of that kind of thing, I have never been approached for food en route. I think Esther must know that most hikers/climbers don't do that. Perhaps she has been asked herself for provisions in the past and handed them over and enjoyed creating a 'bond' with a fellow hiker or something. Perhaps it was her way of slightly clumsily linking arms with strangers, whilst living a semi-nomadic lifestyle. But then on the heels on that thought, I immediately think that she must have realised that to do so with regularity isn't really the right thing to do and potentially impacts on the wellbeing on others.

Esther - rightly - sets great store by focusing on her emotional and physical wellbeing. To me, that seems somehow incongruous with her habit of asking other people for food rather than being responsible for her own needs. It also doesn't take into account the feelings of others - that she is putting people in the awkward (and possibly annoying) spot of sharing or withholding possibly much-needed supplies of their own. That seems out of step with what appears to be her generally nice, likeable, considerate self.

Which means that I arrive right back at the thought that she might have been under the impression that she was creating warmth and a fleeting connection with people as she encountered them. The alternative is that she was simply on the scrounge for food or was dismissive of other people's feelings and any unspoken rules about cadging other people's provisions, and neither of those possibilities seem a comfortable fit.

I also keep swinging between thinking the 'asking for food' thing is a distraction, a nothing, and a pointless excursion into imagining what someone else might have been thinking. And then thinking that it's more, a coherent part of the overall picture of how Esther went about things. And then (again) I arrive back at the thought I opened with, the resonance of experience not equaling responsibility, and how her loved ones might well cite her experience as a reason for thinking that she couldn't have just made a mistake and met with an accident, while other onlookers can see a possible pattern of a lack of responsibility coming into focus. But one borne of enthusiasm and adventure, rather than gung-ho carelessness.

Poor Esther. I believe she made a few miscalculations, met with a straightforward accident and paid the heaviest price possible.