Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Ruthbullock]

IMO that road is not associated with the trail. For photos of the trail down into the valley and onto the Hospice, check HERE

I think we crossed wires- the photo was to show the quality of the road, nothing more. The aerial photo shows the distance between the road in the woods and the trail route (EDs route was in red, with the hospice at the top left corner). The map shows where the photo was probably taken.

 

[Puzzles]

If she was alive and well at the Hospice de France, surely she would have sent a whatsapp message to someone. Furthermore, she's a hiker and could easily hike 6 km (3.7 miles) to the nearest neighbour without hitchhiking.

​

Bagnères-de-Luchon. Luchon. L'Hospice de France connecté

Above snipped for focus.
I agree we'd expect her to have contacted someone, unless her phone was lost or the battery was depleted.

 

[RedHaus]

If she was alive and well at the Hospice de France, surely she would have sent a whatsapp message to someone. Furthermore, she's a hiker and could easily hike 6 km (3.7 miles) to the nearest neighbour without hitchhiking.

2010

“... the first neighbor, as well as the couple's letterbox, are located 6 km away.

We contacted France Telecom, which referred us to the General Council, which subsidizes people living in white areas and helps them set up a satellite dish, says Ingrid. ... The connection was established on May 22, and the lives of our two young managers have become considerably easier."
​

Bagnères-de-Luchon. Luchon. L'Hospice de France connecté

Great sleuthing, @otto! And yes, the great limitation of the possibility that ED aborted her hiking venture via a road (either on the France or Spain side) is that surely she would have connected to family / DC via her phone to update them or ask for help, if she needed it.... that is if she still had her phone and it had power left...

 

[RedHaus]

dbm - dupe

 

[otto]

Came across this ebook about avalanche safety in the news today. Much of the info is appropriate for backcountry mountain hiking.

"But backcountry travel comes with inherent risks — so before you go, research some safety guidelines.

A guide by Doug Latimer, called Avalanche! The Guide's Guide to Safer Travel in the Mountains, is an interactive e-book that offers some tips."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/avalanche-safety-book-ski-mountains-1.5857821

https://www.shadowlightproductions.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/trip-planner.pdf

 

[Ruthbullock]

Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD
This is a link to the car park webcam at the ski resort, that the D125 leads to from Luchon. I’m surprised by how light it still is, and also how many vehicles are in the car park as the ski slopes are closed.

 

[RickshawFan]

Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD
This is a link to the car park webcam at the ski resort, that the D125 leads to from Luchon. I’m surprised by how light it still is, and also how many vehicles are in the car park as the ski slopes are closed.

Wow! I wanna go there. I am surprised to see that any cars; you're right. How would that be allowed? Maybe they're for on-site staff? The site crew may be living there?

 

[otto]

Above snipped for focus.
I agree we'd expect her to have contacted someone, unless her phone was lost or the battery was depleted.

Given the lockdown in France, she could probably hike 6 km faster than catch a ride hitchhiking.

Esther shared her trip plan with her partner. Information from the Spanish man speaking French with the British woman speaking French is probably less reliable.

Dec 16, from her partner:

'Esther specified her route from the summit we spoke on. She had two hours of daylight to reach a refuge winter room, a distance that would have taken her less than an hour. From my own visits I know she wouldn't have had a phone signal again on Sunday afternoon/evening, but she would have had a signal very soon after setting off the next day.

'Because Esther is so particular about sending updates to family, if Esther did have an accident it must have been in that very small area, an area that was pored over daily until the heavy snow arrived.'
​

French and Spanish police hunting for British hiker to meet to discuss next steps in Pyrenees search | Daily Mail Online

 

[Puzzles]

Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD
This is a link to the car park webcam at the ski resort, that the D125 leads to from Luchon. I’m surprised by how light it still is, and also how many vehicles are in the car park as the ski slopes are closed.

The moon still almost full and oh how beautiful the light! Somehow the feelings I've had for Ed are crystallized from these images. Thanks you, Ruthbullock.

 

[The_Investigator]

Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD
This is a link to the car park webcam at the ski resort, that the D125 leads to from Luchon. I’m surprised by how light it still is, and also how many vehicles are in the car park as the ski slopes are closed.

Wow, thanks for that http://wss/sites/generation_portfolio/Generation_Portfolio/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=/sites/generation_portfolio/Generation_Portfolio/Initiatives/Mobile Working&FolderCTID=&View={3A7DDD68-919A-4E30-B509-8C399F8A1B9D}, didn’t know there was that much snow. The poor search teams having to search in those conditions. No wonder they haven’t found any thing.

 

[Corina]

What does "BOOK the whole loop" (from post #579) mean, please?

 

[stmarysmead]

Given the lockdown in France, she could probably hike 6 km faster than catch a ride hitchhiking.

Esther shared her trip plan with her partner. Information from the Spanish man speaking French with the British woman speaking French is probably less reliable.

Dec 16, from her partner:

'Esther specified her route from the summit we spoke on. She had two hours of daylight to reach a refuge winter room, a distance that would have taken her less than an hour. From my own visits I know she wouldn't have had a phone signal again on Sunday afternoon/evening, but she would have had a signal very soon after setting off the next day.

'Because Esther is so particular about sending updates to family, if Esther did have an accident it must have been in that very small area, an area that was pored over daily until the heavy snow arrived.'
​

French and Spanish police hunting for British hiker to meet to discuss next steps in Pyrenees search | Daily Mail Online

But the “conversation” was the day before. All he got on the second day was a photo. I understand that he and her Mother are speaking out of fear, grief, and perhaps a bit of survivors guilt. If she was “ so particular” about sending updates and they were confident that she only stayed on the route she specified....then it’s hard to understand why authorities were not contacted sooner.

I don’t say this as a criticism, because it reminds me of my assurances to the police that my daughter ALWAYS called me upon return from foreign travel and she would NEVER forget to do so!

In this case, no contact for over three days and only a photo on the day before that, had a non threatening possible explanation to Dan and her Mother that, IMO, they are not sharing now. The phone being turned off did not send them into an immediate state of alarm.

Maybe there had been a ‘discussion” that it was time to return home and Esther did not want a repeat of that discussion so the next contact was just a photo, not a call. Perhaps the older man who gave her a ride is correct that she had more extensive plans that involved France.

As for a possible kidnapping, how can we start sleuthing that when we cannot be sure exactly what she did or where she did it?

 

[RickshawFan]

Wow, thanks for that http://wss/sites/generation_portfolio/Generation_Portfolio/Forms/AllItems.aspx?RootFolder=/sites/generation_portfolio/Generation_Portfolio/Initiatives/Mobile Working&FolderCTID=&View={3A7DDD68-919A-4E30-B509-8C399F8A1B9D}, didn’t know there was that much snow. The poor search teams having to search in those conditions. No wonder they haven’t found any thing.

They ended the search right before the "weather came in". The won't search again until spring. Everything is snowed under, maybe even 'til June.

 

[RickshawFan]

What does "BOOK the whole loop" (from post #579) mean, please?

"Book it"=hustle=zoom="make tracks"=do not stop for one moment; focus; really MOVE

I'm not talking about regular walking or hiking speed. I mean having a mission to get somewhere VERY fast, like when darkness is nipping at your heels and you still have three miles to go (normally an hour and a half on a trail for me).
So, the Scenario #3 I have above would be about making mileage, cranking out miles, not about enjoying the scenery.
It would have been a pointless trip to do a whole loop like that, though. Why would you? It would be a hike for the sake of getting back to where you started, not for the sake of enjoying the trip, vistas, etc.
Midsummer, maybe, but you could be more leisurely because there are more hours of daylight. The French blogger's trip was like that (but downhill on the way back).

I've done that kind of "book it" speed a few times, but only to outrun darkness or a storm, or to retrace a trail after running into a snowfield where no tracks were visible) not to just chock up miles. It is quite terrifying, IMO, because you're basically trying to outrun nature to get to a safe place. And you might not make it. And you're tired. And when nature starts going wild on you, e.g. you get a sudden moonless night, or you get lightning when you're out in the open, or the coyotes get going....it becomes not an exactly fun outing.
I really can't see anyone sensible choosing to do that, and I don't think ED has the wherewithal. Plus, she'd have a 25-ish pound pack to weigh her down coming up all those switchbacks in the second half of the day.

 

[Cryptic]

It wouldn’t be someone passing though then, it would be someone local to that French side of the area, don’t they need a pass to travel? So someone who is a key worker? That would narrow it down.

The French seem to have a serious lockdown- something that would not be politically or socially sustainable in many parts of the US.

Providing that the lockdown is enforced in rural areas (I think France is heavily centralized authority wise outside of the overseas possessions- so probably no Departments with mild lockdowns and no rural sheriffs refusing to enforce lockdown orders?), I would imagine that 'essential worker' would include:

Employees in medical fields, transportation, infrastructure, some- or many manufacturing plants, food processing, and in that area farmers, and livestock ranchers.

What does "BOOK the whole loop" (from post #579) mean, please?

'Book' is an older (no uhmm..... "shade" intended for Rickshaw) U.S. slang term for running quickly, or in the context of hiking, speed marching.

Come to think of it, I dont know its origins. It might be a corruption of a French word or Vietnamese word? Soldiers and Marines returning from Vietnam introduced some Franco- Vietnamese words to the US as slang terms in the 1960s- 1970s. Alot have since faded out.

 

[Puzzles]

BBM.
I continue to consider the authorities have facts of which we must remain unaware, hence the media silence.

Source – The Guardian Dec. 20. Quote from LBT chief executive Matthew Searle:
...Dingley was, says Searle, close to her mother Ria. “Esther had a fantastic relationship with her mother, they were always in contact,” he said. Last Monday, Ria described her daughter as an “open book” who discussed her travel plans and life decisions.
In re-reading all I can find on ED’s disappearance, I noticed Searle spoke of Esther using the past tense, as has DC.

Perhaps Searle stating ED "had a fantastic relationship with her mother, they were always in contact” can simply mean he used the past tense ‘had’ because it immediately precedes the phrase ‘they were always in close contact’, and now they are not. It’s the earlier use of the past tense "Dingley was close to her mother" that strikes me as odd. Why would ED's mere disappearance preclude a close relationship with her mother?

IMO, “Dingley was close to her mother” suggests Searle has information unknown to us.

 

[BobbleBob]

BBM.
I continue to consider the authorities have facts of which we must remain unaware, hence the media silence.

Source – The Guardian Dec. 20. Quote from LBT chief executive Matthew Searle:
...Dingley was, says Searle, close to her mother Ria. “Esther had a fantastic relationship with her mother, they were always in contact,” he said. Last Monday, Ria described her daughter as an “open book” who discussed her travel plans and life decisions.
In re-reading all I can find on ED’s disappearance, I noticed Searle spoke of Esther using the past tense, as has DC.

Perhaps Searle stating ED "had a fantastic relationship with her mother, they were always in contact” can simply mean he used the past tense ‘had’ because it immediately precedes the phrase ‘they were always in close contact’, and now they are not. It’s the earlier use of the past tense "Dingley was close to her mother" that strikes me as odd. Why would ED's mere disappearance preclude a close relationship with her mother?

IMO, “Dingley was close to her mother” suggests Searle has information unknown to us.

While I would have expected the use of the present tense here (to imply ED is still alive), I wouldn’t read too much into the use of the past tense beyond the fact that they may be acknowledging that ED has died.

As for the lack of updates from LE on both sides of the border, this could be due to there being nothing further to add to what has already been released. The search has been stopped for the winter so nothing will happen for several months, and until then there more than likely won’t be any updates beyond something from the family or any new witnesses coming forward.

 

[The_Investigator]

Wow! I wanna go there. I am surprised to see that any cars; you're right. How would that be allowed? Maybe they're for on-site staff? The site crew may be living there?

Ah, so there are maybe many more people around that area of the mountains than we thought, working, repairing, maintaining the ski and hiking facilities? And having the odd walk on their day off.... coming across a lone female hiker,... certainly could even be familiar with her, what with her may have been staying in their refuge previously. Remember Ian Huntley, the caretaker that killed the 2 girls at his school where he worked. He helped EVER so hard to search for them with the police, obviously to all th wrong places from where he hide the bodies,.. but eventually the British police finally released the one right under their noses.

 

[Quietey]

I really don't know what to think could have happened to this lovely, vibrant, adventurous, determined and strong young woman - so many possibilities, all explored with clarity and detail in this thread. There are a lot of contrasting thoughts yet all seem as though they could make sense. I think there is a heartfelt and deep human need for resolution when someone just disappears like this, along with hopes and empathy for people that love and know the person. Some thoughts/possibilities that keep coming back to me are:

• Setting off late in the day - was she maybe setting off with some trepidation, procrastinating about going? I know that I do this when there are things that I have mixed feelings about wanting to do. Did she feel a sense almost of obligation, of sticking to a plan, of making herself go through with something that she actually found quite difficult?
• The picture that she posted looking down over Luchon - the walking sticks are entwined in front of the view, but maybe reading too much into this! The wording was something like "DC I can almost see you" - so many ways to read between the lines here - for example "you don't need to worry about me " or "I'm really not far away" or even a slight taunt - "I'm over here and you're over there and I'm not coming back yet!"
• There is another person who saw Esther in the days before she disappeared - the grandson of the French man who gave her a lift. Just mentioning this as he never gets included in the list of people who saw her - I haven't heard any mention of him and don't know whether he was an adult or a child. And regarding this lift - was she signalling for a lift, or did he stop because she looked in need of a lift? I think that the Covid situation is an extra level in the decision making process for many and what was its significance here, if any?

All just questions, no answers, just my thoughts.

PS happy new year to all

 

[patCee]

I don't have a broad grasp of the different routes ED could have taken, and the clear understanding of how they relate to each other, directions etc. like some on here. Do the many cars parked at the ski resort, indicate ED could have encountered various cars being driven in and out of the area on one of the tracks/road if she was returning to Benasque? Also there may well be some people at the ski resort who like to fit in some hiking, regardless of the time of year.