Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[ZaZara]

I don't have a broad grasp of the different routes ED could have taken, and the clear understanding of how they relate to each other, directions etc. like some on here. Do the many cars parked at the ski resort, indicate ED could have encountered various cars being driven in and out of the area on one of the tracks/road if she was returning to Benasque? Also there may well be some people at the ski resort who like to fit in some hiking, regardless of the time of year.

The ski resort was closed when ED disappeared. There was hardly any snow in the mountains and the ski season had not begun. There were hikers in the area at the time, but not that many (compared to the summer season or the ski season).

 

[ZaZara]

I really don't know what to think could have happened to this lovely, vibrant, adventurous, determined and strong young woman - so many possibilities, all explored with clarity and detail in this thread. There are a lot of contrasting thoughts yet all seem as though they could make sense. I think there is a heartfelt and deep human need for resolution when someone just disappears like this, along with hopes and empathy for people that love and know the person. Some thoughts/possibilities that keep coming back to me are:

• Setting off late in the day - was she maybe setting off with some trepidation, procrastinating about going? I know that I do this when there are things that I have mixed feelings about wanting to do. Did she feel a sense almost of obligation, of sticking to a plan, of making herself go through with something that she actually found quite difficult?
• The picture that she posted looking down over Luchon - the walking sticks are entwined in front of the view, but maybe reading too much into this! The wording was something like "DC I can almost see you" - so many ways to read between the lines here - for example "you don't need to worry about me " or "I'm really not far away" or even a slight taunt - "I'm over here and you're over there and I'm not coming back yet!"
• There is another person who saw Esther in the days before she disappeared - the grandson of the French man who gave her a lift. Just mentioning this as he never gets included in the list of people who saw her - I haven't heard any mention of him and don't know whether he was an adult or a child. And regarding this lift - was she signalling for a lift, or did he stop because she looked in need of a lift? I think that the Covid situation is an extra level in the decision making process for many and what was its significance here, if any?

All just questions, no answers, just my thoughts.

PS happy new year to all

The grandson is 7 years old. This is mentioned in various reports. Happy reading in 2021!

 

[RickshawFan]

I don't have a broad grasp of the different routes ED could have taken, and the clear understanding of how they relate to each other, directions etc. like some on here. Do the many cars parked at the ski resort, indicate ED could have encountered various cars being driven in and out of the area on one of the tracks/road if she was returning to Benasque? Also there may well be some people at the ski resort who like to fit in some hiking, regardless of the time of year.

The thing is, France is and was in lockdown. AFAIK people can't run about and take holidays. It certainly doesn't look like lifts are open or people have been skiing hither and yon. Is the hill even groomed?
It's very possible that the ski area has staff living on site even now, and that's why we see cars. There has to be somewhere to put lift handlers, groomers, people managers.... It's very likely they live up there.
However, it's been made very clear that no hiking was to be happening in France since substantially before (almost a month) ED set off on her walkabouts. We know this because the gendarmerie reported that after they announced the search for ED, their fellow Gauls let them know how strongly they felt about ED being out and about at all in France, since it was against the law.

 

[stmarysmead]

I really don't know what to think could have happened to this lovely, vibrant, adventurous, determined and strong young woman - so many possibilities, all explored with clarity and detail in this thread. There are a lot of contrasting thoughts yet all seem as though they could make sense. I think there is a heartfelt and deep human need for resolution when someone just disappears like this, along with hopes and empathy for people that love and know the person. Some thoughts/possibilities that keep coming back to me are:

• Setting off late in the day - was she maybe setting off with some trepidation, procrastinating about going? I know that I do this when there are things that I have mixed feelings about wanting to do. Did she feel a sense almost of obligation, of sticking to a plan, of making herself go through with something that she actually found quite difficult?
• The picture that she posted looking down over Luchon - the walking sticks are entwined in front of the view, but maybe reading too much into this! The wording was something like "DC I can almost see you" - so many ways to read between the lines here - for example "you don't need to worry about me " or "I'm really not far away" or even a slight taunt - "I'm over here and you're over there and I'm not coming back yet!"
• There is another person who saw Esther in the days before she disappeared - the grandson of the French man who gave her a lift. Just mentioning this as he never gets included in the list of people who saw her - I haven't heard any mention of him and don't know whether he was an adult or a child. And regarding this lift - was she signalling for a lift, or did he stop because she looked in need of a lift? I think that the Covid situation is an extra level in the decision making process for many and what was its significance here, if any?

All just questions, no answers, just my thoughts.

PS happy new year to all

Insightful post...thank you. You are touching on one aspect of this case that intrigues me...and that’s how to interpret the few clues we have ...when we do not know the actual dynamics of the relationship between Dan and Esther.

I’m not questioning their love for each other...but with their lives suddenly in the glare of the media, how much are they holding back...out of love, loyalty, desire for privacy? Dan says their last conversation was one of missing each other and Esther looking forward to coming home.

But Esther has been supposed to come home several times before and instead changed her mind. I’m believing that this was absolutely a loving devoted relationship. But Covid and quarantine had admittedly created issues. There was much to discuss about their mutual differences in how to go forward. Esther may have believed that this was her last bit of freedom in the mountains for a very long time.

Maybe, as you point out...there was something of a ‘You can’t catch me” in the comment about almost seeing Dan. Maybe the last conversation was about missing each other, yes, but with pressure from Dan to wind this trek of hers up. Maybe she sent a photo instead of calling the next day...instead of having to debate the issue again. Maybe he took her 3 plus days of no communication like a loving parent with a stubborn, determined-to-have-her-way offspring.

Now is he going to put this all out into the public domain? “I didn’t raise the alarm because this is what she’d do when she didn't want to argue or do what I was asking her to do. A lack of communication is Esther avoiding confrontation.”

No, I don’t think so.

This is why we have contradictory statements. ‘ She ALWAYS kept us informed. She called all the time, several times a day.” But neither her Mother or Dan was concerned until 3 1/2 days past.

I’m thinking also about all the ways this pandemic was undercutting this nomadic life she loved. Lockdowns. Cooped up in a small camper. Seems like they’d already left the dogs in UK. Is their rental property in London or one of the hardest hit areas? Is that income stream still functioning? They’d already lived six years on their savings.

There’s a mention in one interview of Dan’s health issues being a reason he’d like to settle down. Does he now need to be closer to medical providers?

Esther was returning to very small quarters, quarantine, masks...with no end in sight...so very different from the freedom, far away from everything the world was facing...that she was feeling on her trek.

 

[Cryptic]

However, it's been made very clear that no hiking was to be happening in France since substantially before (almost a month) ED set off on her walkabouts.

We know this because the gendarmerie reported that after they announced the search for ED, their fellow Gauls let them know how strongly they felt about ED being out and about at all in France, since it was against the law.

Just out of curiosity, what was the possible date that Esther approached the French woman for food? <modsnip: This individual's social media is off limits in this discussion>

It might be that the French woman was violating or bending lockdown measures herself? Then there is the presence of cars at the closed ski lift. Both elements could suggest that rural France is not as totally locked down as say, urban France.

In the end, there might be more people out and about than implied by lock down measures via being permitted to be so, bending lockdown regulations or simply breaking lockdown regulations in areas where local authorities don't enforce them zealously.

This could increase the foul play possibility if Esther made it off the mountain to lower elevations and then was able to approach somebody for food, a ride or shelter.

 

[patCee]

The ski resort was closed when ED disappeared. There was hardly any snow in the mountains and the ski season had not begun. There were hikers in the area at the time, but not that many (compared to the summer season or the ski season).

Thanks for that, and I appreciate the quick turnover from hiking to skiing, due to the rapid change of weather. The building and number of cars show it is a largish venue for the skiing season. There must have been a number of staff in place at the end of the hiking season to prepare for the skiing, That would take longer than a few days, I'd have thought.

 

[patCee]

The thing is, France is and was in lockdown. AFAIK people can't run about and take holidays. It certainly doesn't look like lifts are open or people have been skiing hither and yon. Is the hill even groomed?
It's very possible that the ski area has staff living on site even now, and that's why we see cars. There has to be somewhere to put lift handlers, groomers, people managers.... It's very likely they live up there.
However, it's been made very clear that no hiking was to be happening in France since substantially before (almost a month) ED set off on her walkabouts. We know this because the gendarmerie reported that after they announced the search for ED, their fellow Gauls let them know how strongly they felt about ED being out and about at all in France, since it was against the law.

BBM
Thanks, it makes sense there's people living there. In view of an earlier discussion re that particular road, I wondered if it was possible that ED could have come down and walked in the area of the ski resort, and if so could have been seen by someone, in a car or otherwise.

 

[RickshawFan]

Just out of curiosity, what was the possible date that Esther approached the French woman for food? <modsnip: This individual's social media is off limits in this discussion>

It might be that the French woman was violating or bending lockdown measures herself? Then there is the presence of cars at the closed ski lift. Both elements could suggest that rural France is not as totally locked down as say, urban France.

In the end, there might be more people out and about than implied by lock down measures via being permitted to be so, bending lockdown regulations or simply breaking lockdown regulations in areas where local authorities don't enforce them zealously.

This could increase the foul play possibility if Esther made it off the mountain to lower elevations and then was able to approach somebody for food, a ride or shelter.

Hiking in the mountains was not permitted in France at the time all this was happening. That's the reason ED was approaching from the Spain side. Anyone she met out there might have been accessing from Spain and hiking in Spain (which has different lockdown rules)
AFAIK ED was doing her overnights in France by crossing the border during her hikes.
If France had been open at the time of the trip, she could have made the same loop from the Hospice parking lot. This would have been about 1000% safer.
IMO this is a big factor in a possible accident: starting the loop from the Spain trailhead. That, along with starting so late in the day (though I think this is a lesser factor than the choice of trailhead, because the Refuge was in reach and would be safe with the equipment she seems to have had).
The choice of trailhead alone would almost certainly have required ED to bivouac at least one night, and she would have been faced with a huge and strenuous uphill in the second half of the loop. To get out, she was not only going to have to climb up from the Hospice to the Refuge, she was going to have to go up that crazy steep slope above the Refuge to get back to town. Just to get to the Port, that's at least 4 hours of up if you're fit, at the end of your trip, and carrying perhaps 25 pounds. Then you've still got to get into town.

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM
Thanks, it makes sense there's people living there. In view of an earlier discussion re that particular road, I wondered if it was possible that ED could have come down and walked in the area of the ski resort, and if so could have been seen by someone, in a car or otherwise.

I would venture to bet not all those cars in the parking lot were coming and going. Maybe just the ones randomly parked. I don't think France allows you to be out and about.

 

[RickshawFan]

The ski resort was closed when ED disappeared. There was hardly any snow in the mountains and the ski season had not begun. There were hikers in the area at the time, but not that many (compared to the summer season or the ski season).

Hiking was not permitted in France almost the whole time ED was on her trip. That's why the gendarmerie got so many vituperous complaints when they announced the search in France.

 

[RickshawFan]

France lockdown rules for late October-early November

France's lockdown requirements per Reuters announced November 22.

November 28 France lockdown fluff, including references to "walking"

Curfew in lieu of lockdown starting December 15. No exceptions, including New Years.

Current ski resort rules for France into 2021.

 

[The_Investigator]

What does "BOOK the whole loop" (from post #579) mean, please?

Do the whole loop?

 

[The_Investigator]

Hiking was not permitted in France almost the whole time ED was on her trip. That's why the gendarmerie got so many vituperous complaints when they announced the search in France.

Look at the web cam today

 

[The_Investigator]

Hiking was not permitted in France almost the whole time ED was on her trip. That's why the gendarmerie got so many vituperous complaints when they announced the search in France.

There are loads of people there today though? Thought they were in lockdown.

 

[stmarysmead]

Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD
This is a link to the car park webcam at the ski resort, that the D125 leads to from Luchon. I’m surprised by how light it still is, and also how many vehicles are in the car park as the ski slopes are closed.

You are right. Parking lot looks quite full.

 

[The_Investigator]

The thing is, France is and was in lockdown. AFAIK people can't run about and take holidays. It certainly doesn't look like lifts are open or people have been skiing hither and yon. Is the hill even groomed?
It's very possible that the ski area has staff living on site even now, and that's why we see cars. There has to be somewhere to put lift handlers, groomers, people managers.... It's very likely they live up there.
However, it's been made very clear that no hiking was to be happening in France since substantially before (almost a month) ED set off on her walkabouts. We know this because the gendarmerie reported that after they announced the search for ED, their fellow Gauls let them know how strongly they felt about ED being out and about at all in France, since it was against the law.

So the skiing guy and his girlfriend who saw her last were allowed out because he is an athlete? So he felt confident enough to to admit being there, but no one else will admit to being out in the hills will they?

 

[Hexe]

So the skiing guy and his girlfriend who saw her last were allowed out because he is an athlete? So he felt confident enough to to admit being there, but no one else will admit to being out in the hills will they?

The skiing dude and his gf were Spaniards, hiking on the Spanish side of the mountains.

 

[stmarysmead]

I’m guessing there has to be a legal explanation for all the cars in the parking lot. If I were running a business flouting the pandemic lockdown, I’d certainly disable the webcam.

 

[otto]

The French seem to have a serious lockdown- something that would not be politically or socially sustainable in many parts of the US.

Providing that the lockdown is enforced in rural areas (I think France is heavily centralized authority wise outside of the overseas possessions- so probably no Departments with mild lockdowns and no rural sheriffs refusing to enforce lockdown orders?), I would imagine that 'essential worker' would include:

Employees in medical fields, transportation, infrastructure, some- or many manufacturing plants, food processing, and in that area farmers, and livestock ranchers.

Parts of Canada have full lockdown right now. There is no indoor socializing except within a family unit that lives together. Those who live alone are allowed one social bubble. There are rules for outdoor socializing. Some people violate the rules and there are arrests.

Essential workers are grocery stores, medical facilities, personal medical care such as physiotherapists, restaurant take out, pet supplies, delivery services, liquor stores, etc. with limits of 15% capacity.

In France, lockdown in November restricted how far people could travel and how long they could be outside the home. Esther found a way around the lockdown by crossing the border to Spain and then planning to hike into France.

There were no hikers on the French side of the border and few hikers on the Spain side, so only one witness. French SAR had to break lockdown to search for her, which they did until the weather changed. She pushed the boundaries to the extent that no one knows when or where she vanished. Had she respected the lockdown when she was in France, she would be alive today. Lockdown is hard, but the sooner everyone does their part to reduce transmission, the sooner we can return to normal life.

 

[otto]

So the skiing guy and his girlfriend who saw her last were allowed out because he is an athlete? So he felt confident enough to to admit being there, but no one else will admit to being out in the hills will they?

The olympian and his girlfriend were in Spain, not France.