Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[PeggyHenry]

You know it is strange that we all saw the BBC interview, that was released to coincide with some more books they were releasing, completely understand they were marketing there, it’s how they make their money,.. BUT then she disappears. I go back to what we have discussed before, was it too much publicity and someone used the opportunity as we could all see what she was up to in terms of solo hikes etc,.. why wasn’t it just another solo hiker? Why her in particular to go missing when she is already in the news,.. I can’t answer that but it bothered me from the beginning of this thread. Probably why we are all so interested,... just so many things don’t sit right. I also think the two older guys mentioned earlier,: the lift guy and the guy running the refuge could be opportunists,... I don’t think she had an accident,.. To fit for that.

Yes, for me there is too much that doesn't sit quite right with this case.... I dont believe it was simply an accident, although I recognise it is a possibility.

 

[jsoap]

Thinking about the weather at the time Meteociel - Observations Bagnères-de-Luchon (31) - données météo de la station - Tableaux horaires en temps réel has detailed historic recorded temperatures at Luchon @621m. It's worth noting that the overnight temperature dropped to -3C, so the temperature at Refuge Venasque @2250 would have been much lower, at least -10C. IMO this would be much colder than her recent outings. So if she did sleep out then I'm sure that she would have cut her trip short on the morning of 22nd. Consequently if she did sleep at the refuge or a cabane, why were there no traces found?

 

[Grouse]

Thinking about the weather at the time Meteociel - Observations Bagnères-de-Luchon (31) - données météo de la station - Tableaux horaires en temps réel has detailed historic recorded temperatures at Luchon @621m. It's worth noting that the overnight temperature dropped to -3C, so the temperature at Refuge Venasque @2250 would have been much lower, at least -10C. IMO this would be much colder than her recent outings. So if she did sleep out then I'm sure that she would have cut her trip short on the morning of 22nd. Consequently if she did sleep at the refuge or a cabane, why were there no traces found?

Yes, looking at the graphs in that link the nights of 21/22 Nov and 22/23 Nov were both significantly colder than the nights prior to that. Wonder where she overnighted on the 21st?

 

[PeggyHenry]

It just seems to me that one of the oddest aspects of the case is that Esther was climbing a mountain at 3pm. It is just very odd that she would do that unless she was meeting someone at a specific time . I understand if she was heading for the refuge after summiting then maybe it could make sense to delay her ascent....but... apparently twice she asks for food. That is just plain odd. If she delayed her ascent then she had time to find and pack food.
However the image of her at the summit shows someone who looks relaxed, happy and not starving!! Maybe because she'd had the almond paste etc..
Missing Brit hiker Esther Dingley 'was last seen by woman who gave her food' (thesun.co.uk)

 

[10ofRods]

Why is there no appeal to the public in the uk to organize a massive huge search , I know we are in the middle of a pandemic but finding a missing English woman is definitely essential travel so nobody would be breaking the rules ,, and I know for a fact there’s plenty of people in the uk who would be happy to assist in finding Esther , I know it might sound like finding a needle in a haystack because she was hiking on the Pyrenees, but she went missing in a very specific location on the Pyrenees ,, how could you sleep at night knowing a loved one’s freezing cold lifeless body is somewhere on a mountain , the partner used social media to sell books why not use it to appeal to the public to help him find his partner of 19 years ,,, it’s like she is literally been forgotten about ,, if anyone remembers the huge public assistance in rescuing the missing Thai boys in the cave that showed me humans will go to extraordinary efforts to help each other and there’s definitely hundreds of people who would help find this beautiful young lady , with the machinery and technology we have today it wouldn’t be too difficult if the right people were involved

Because most jurisdictions will not risk living persons' lives for a body recovery, is the short answer.

Spain might permit it on their side, but I doubt it. A large scale search was already performed (for days). To invite complete wilderness newbies into the Pyreneés at this time of year would mean way more people at risk. Many parts of these trails are treacherous right now.

The Thai boys were still alive. They were in voice contact with them - it was *not* a missing person's search.

Searchers have already risked their lives looking for Esther and it is way more difficult to find a missing person in the wilderness than people think. Even if there were no COVID, it is not customary in any nation that I know of to organize a large scale body recovery mission.

The authorities on both sides are confident that she is in no visible place in the mountains and the area was searched very thoroughly.

What qualities would these "right people" have that the searchers (who included her SO) did not have? What "machinery" do you think could find her? I'm very curious.

 

[jsoap]

It just seems to me that one of the oddest aspects of the case is that Esther was climbing a mountain at 3pm. It is just very odd that she would do that unless she was meeting someone at a specific time . I understand if she was heading for the refuge after summiting then maybe it could make sense to delay her ascent....but... apparently twice she asks for food. That is just plain odd. If she delayed her ascent then she had time to find and pack food.
However the image of her at the summit shows someone who looks relaxed, happy and not starving!! Maybe because she'd had the almond paste etc..
Missing Brit hiker Esther Dingley 'was last seen by woman who gave her food' (thesun.co.uk)

On the initial 4 day trip before 7thNov she mentions that

Snow forced me to change my plans daily... So now plan... Just a wander...

My thoughts are, that is she if she had spent the day on the Spanish side and arrived at the Porte at 3pm, intending to stay at Refuge Venasque for the night, then it would be tempting to detour up to the pic one more time. On that first 4 day trip she also mentions that she hiked to the same summit 3 days in a row.
45 mins up and 1 hour down to the refuge would seem a reasonable thing to do.
btw the Sun report was wrong - the alleged encounter was weeks before.

 

[RickshawFan]

I don’t think she had an accident,.. To fit for that.

Snipped for focus.

There are different kinds of "fit". See here for someone who was likely way fitter than ED at the time she went missing: Kate Matrosova found dead after getting stranded in treacherous conditions on holiday climb | Daily Mail Online

 

[jsoap]

Snipped for focus.

There are different kinds of "fit". See here for someone who was likely way fitter than ED at the time she went missing: Kate Matrosova found dead after getting stranded in treacherous conditions on holiday climb | Daily Mail Online

It's very easy to fall into a false sense of security, especially at the end of the day, after the hard work has been done. Many times I've made mistakes just after the "dangerous" section.

 

[bazthehandyman]

It just seems to me that one of the oddest aspects of the case is that Esther was climbing a mountain at 3pm. It is just very odd that she would do that unless she was meeting someone at a specific time . I understand if she was heading for the refuge after summiting then maybe it could make sense to delay her ascent....but... apparently twice she asks for food. That is just plain odd. If she delayed her ascent then she had time to find and pack food.
However the image of her at the summit shows someone who looks relaxed, happy and not starving!! Maybe because she'd had the almond paste etc..
Missing Brit hiker Esther Dingley 'was last seen by woman who gave her food' (thesun.co.uk)

Very odd to me....all I've heard is that she is an experienced climber/hill walker,whatever....now someone has turned up who says they gave her food.She was wearing shorts and was going up at 3pm at this time of year.I don't care how experienced you are,or how many mountains you've climbed you never ever do that ....and on your own too.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Very odd to me....all I've heard is that she is an experienced climber/hill walker,whatever....now someone has turned up who says they gave her food.She was wearing shorts and was going up at 3pm at this time of year.I don't care how experienced you are,or how many mountains you've climbed you never ever do that ....and on your own too.

1) she wasn’t wearing shorts on that day
2) nobody gave her food that day

I think you’re getting mixed up that the French woman saw her on 22nd. I don’t think that’s the case - it was earlier in the month, possibly as far back as October.

She had climbed the same mountain the previous day, 21st, around lunchtime. On 22nd she reached the top just before 4pm. She was due to stay in a refuge an hour down from the top, and still had 1.5-2 hours of daylight left. She had previously written that she hated hanging around at refuges, and preferred to get there as late as possible so she could just eat and then sleep.

 

[ZaZara]

Because most jurisdictions will not risk living persons' lives for a body recovery, is the short answer.

Spain might permit it on their side, but I doubt it. A large scale search was already performed (for days). To invite complete wilderness newbies into the Pyreneés at this time of year would mean way more people at risk. Many parts of these trails are treacherous right now.

The Thai boys were still alive. They were in voice contact with them - it was *not* a missing person's search.

Searchers have already risked their lives looking for Esther and it is way more difficult to find a missing person in the wilderness than people think. Even if there were no COVID, it is not customary in any nation that I know of to organize a large scale body recovery mission.

The authorities on both sides are confident that she is in no visible place in the mountains and the area was searched very thoroughly.

What qualities would these "right people" have that the searchers (who included her SO) did not have? What "machinery" do you think could find her? I'm very curious.

No way Spain or France is going to give permission for such an enterprise.
Snow and ice / glaciers on the mountains are part of the eco-system and the water supply for large regions. They are protected by law.

No one <modsnip> is allowed to willfully create an environmental disaster by melting square kms of ice and snow.
In the unlikely case that they would find a way to make this huge amount of snow and ice liquid again (water!) this water would flow to the lowest points, freeze again at a lower level and cause avalanches on a huge scale.

IMO long before one has figured out how to do this, and do it safely and responsibly, spring is there and the sun and rising temperatures will do the work naturally.

My five cents. Now back to sitting on my hands.

 

[RickshawFan]

Very odd to me....all I've heard is that she is an experienced climber/hill walker,whatever....now someone has turned up who says they gave her food.She was wearing shorts and was going up at 3pm at this time of year.I don't care how experienced you are,or how many mountains you've climbed you never ever do that ....and on your own too.

IME most hikers who go missing are described as "experienced." IMO "experienced" is in the eyes of the beholder. What likely matters more is your aptitude for assessing risk, willingness to heed the voice of fear, carrying kit that is appropriate for the conditions, acquiring skill in a group of no-nonsense "old timers" who know what they're doing and will teach you risk abatement (this is as true for successful Everest summiters as for casual hikers in the Cascades) and, above all, do not anticipate a rescue if you get into trouble. Very important, too, is strict adherence to "leave no trace" guidelines (yep, never building campfires anywhere in the wilderness except for survival emergencies), understanding that it's your obligation not to put others—including SARS—at risk, and carrying the "10 essentials": these are "pass it forward" and "respect everyone else's safety" dicta.

 

[fridaybaker]

IME most hikers who go missing are described as "experienced." IMO "experienced" is in the eyes of the beholder. What likely matters more is your aptitude for assessing risk, willingness to heed the voice of fear, carrying kit that is appropriate for the conditions, acquiring skill in a group of no-nonsense "old timers" who know what they're doing and will teach you risk abatement (this is as true for successful Everest summiters as for casual hikers in the Cascades) and, above all, do not anticipate a rescue if you get into trouble. Very important, too, is strict adherence to "leave no trace" guidelines (yep, never building campfires anywhere in the wilderness except for survival emergencies), understanding that it's your obligation not to put others—including SARS—at risk, and carrying the "10 essentials": these are "pass it forward" and "respect everyone else's safety" dicta.

BBM: That's not the right attitude, Rickshaw. You have to push beyond those challenges that cause you fear. And "old timers" are so, well.....old. What could they know?

Back to my cave....

 

[The_Investigator]

Yes, looking at the graphs in that link the nights of 21/22 Nov and 22/23 Nov were both significantly colder than the nights prior to that. Wonder where she overnighted on the 21st?

Is there any proof or possibility she actually went beck to the van that night? Is that do-able? In terms of distance and perhaps with a head torch?

 

[The_Investigator]

It just seems to me that one of the oddest aspects of the case is that Esther was climbing a mountain at 3pm. It is just very odd that she would do that unless she was meeting someone at a specific time . I understand if she was heading for the refuge after summiting then maybe it could make sense to delay her ascent....but... apparently twice she asks for food. That is just plain odd. If she delayed her ascent then she had time to find and pack food.
However the image of her at the summit shows someone who looks relaxed, happy and not starving!! Maybe because she'd had the almond paste etc..
Missing Brit hiker Esther Dingley 'was last seen by woman who gave her food' (thesun.co.uk)

She may have gone up to watch the sun set, often done by us hikers, we have returned to a summit in the past because it was going to be clearer on the next day, after having previously done it, especially if you aren’t going to be in the region again, I.e. on holiday, as it was just such a nice view. Just a thought,

 

[PeggyHenry]

Yes certainly possible...
but also no Facebook postings as from 20th Nov after days of posting daily updates for her readers. I suppose until further updates we will continue to bring up the same things .. which is fine as it may promote new thoughts and ideas.

 

[jsoap]

Yes certainly possible...
but also no Facebook postings as from 20th Nov after days of posting daily updates for her readers. I suppose until further updates we will continue to bring up the same things .. which is fine as it may promote new thoughts and ideas.

Cold temperatures will also kill your lithium phone battery

 

[otto]

No, you said, and I copy and paste, "I am talking about a 15km2 radius of where she was last seen..."

The key missing word, "radius" changes the description significantly. In any case, melting even two square kms of snow in a remote area is sadly, not an option.

May she be found quickly. God rest her soul.

I'm a bit surprised that anyone would take seriously the idea of melting mountains to locate a hiker who might have slipped into a crevasse, and whose trip plan is in question.

 

[Irishwebsleuth]

I’m surprised there is not an enormous international effort to find a missing human , but I suppose that’s the done thing . We learn something new everyday

 

[otto]

I’m surprised there is not an enormous international effort to find a missing human , but I suppose that’s the done thing . We learn something new everyday

People go missing every day. There is never an enormous international effort to find them. There's a local investigation, either by SAR or investigators.

Out of curiosity, how does one melt all the snow from a few mountains?