Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[RedHaus]

Is that the ravine on the trail to the Hospice from the Refuge? Or? FWIW I agree with most everything in RedHaus's post ^^.

Thank you, RickshawFan!

Here is what Sundaaaay said: "...Either way I think it’s likely ED wandered off the track at some point and fell into a ravine such as this one below near the forested area Chemin de l'Impératrice at the bottom of the valley."

And I'll add a map since that may help as well. Le chemin de l'Impératrice - Google My Maps.

There are pics embedded and on left.

What I can't do is overlay the trail from Refuge de V to Hospice de France via the Chemin de l'Imperatrice....

 

[RickshawFan]

Thank you, RickshawFan!

Here is what Sundaaaay said: "...Either way I think it’s likely ED wandered off the track at some point and fell into a ravine such as this one below near the forested area Chemin de l'Impératrice at the bottom of the valley."

And I'll add a map since that may help as well. Le chemin de l'Impératrice - Google My Maps.

There are pics embedded and on left.

What I can't do is overlay the trail from Refuge de V to Hospice de France via the Chemin de l'Imperatrice....

That's just the clockwise version of the trip that is reflected in the photo blog ^^? It includes the Hospice? I think my idea was she decided on the spur of the moment to go anti-clockwise.

This is the clockwise version, w/ fabulous photos: Randonnée Pic Sauvegarde 2738m – Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano

 

[RedHaus]

dbm

 

[10ofRods]

Snipped for focus

BBM=Bolded by me

This indicates the bolding is not in the original.

You will also see DBM=Deleted by me.

Trophies.
I have no idea what trophies are, except they showed up one day right after a new forum software was introduced. Many posters got the same number of trophies at the same time!

Trophy options (dunno if these are real):
1. Brownie points from a moderator for those times when you could have been oh so tempted to get snarky but didn't.
2. How many days since you last got an alert from the moderator. NB for some posters, this number might represent hours. Then there's minutes. Then there's seconds...
3. Randomized issue, to persuade you there's some kind of competition going on and lull you into thinking, if only you tried harder, you could write as many posts as Otto.
4. You start with a pile and get a deduction every time you go off topic (like I have in this post). Just watch my trophy number shrink.

Nah, you have too many. Only 113 show, but you've got like 100,000. In my book.

(I don't think trophy points relate to anything much).

As to whether LE ever reads here - yes, I think some LE do (IME). Depends. If a thread here has information you think LE should see (in the jurisdiction in question), no reason not to copy and paste the URL for that specific page and send it to them - it's been done before.

I hope we are all within TOS.

 

[RedHaus]

Yes, of course.... counter (anti) clockwise was her route.... I think that is what DC had said. Thanks for clarifying that.

Sorry, I forgot to quote RickShawFan's #422 post that I am responding too...

 

[RickshawFan]

Bivouac from Pyrenees Blog

Note the "bivvy bags". These are like raingear for sleeping bags. They also keep the wind out. They are crucial if sleeping with no tent. And they make you stay much warmer. AFAIK ED did NOT have one of these. It would have been so helpful in the situation, even if she slept in the Refuge.

These guys have much more robust equipment than ED. Better suited to the elements.

Incidentally, this blogger also calls a tent spot a bivouac, so ED might have been using the term that way (contrary to what I thought; but I really did interpret her term as "no tent" after seeing her description. He is very pleased with his purchase: an MSR Hubba Hubba (2-person). For fun, there's also a Hubba (1 person), a Brutha Hubba (3?), and a Mutha Hubba (4?).. Another blog post

Many of the photos in this blog remind me that the fog could have rolled in on ED's trip. This would not only be difficult for wayfinding, but it would have made her sleeping bag very wet (and useless) if she was sleeping out.

 

[JMapes]

There was a case in the US 1-2 years ago, where a young lady was murdered while out jogging. Her Fit-Bit provided useful information, IIRC. Unfortunately, I can't remember the victim's name, but I believe the case has still not come to trial.

I remember the FitBit data of Mollie Tibbetts being used to help locate her.

Found Deceased - IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018

 

[RickshawFan]

Nah, you have too many. Only 113 show, but you've got like 100,000. In my book.

Snipped for focus.
Thanks. You figured I was joking about the sources of trophy points, correct?

IIRC the trophy points showed up one day about 5 years ago when the forum software was changed.

 

[RickshawFan]

Bivouac from Pyrenees Blog

Note the "bivvy bags". These are like raingear for sleeping bags. They also keep the wind out. They are crucial if sleeping with no tent. And they make you stay much warmer. AFAIK ED did NOT have one of these. It would have been so helpful in the situation, even if she slept in the Refuge.

These guys have much more robust equipment than ED. Better suited to the elements.

Incidentally, this blogger also calls a tent spot a bivouac, so ED might have been using the term that way (contrary to what I thought; but I really did interpret her term as "no tent" after seeing her description. He is very pleased with his purchase: an MSR Hubba Hubba (2-person). For fun, there's also a Hubba (1 person), a Brutha Hubba (3?), and a Mutha Hubba (4?).. Another blog post

Many of the photos in this blog remind me that the fog could have rolled in on ED's trip. This would not only be difficult for wayfinding, but it would have made her sleeping bag very wet (and useless) if she was sleeping out.

Ya know what else I saw in this blog? From the Pic de S you look down on the Hospice. Crystal clear. Right at your feet. I'm thinking ED could have seen it and misjudged the distance. Alternatively, if she stuck to plan and went clockwise, she could have scoped out an area where she thought might be a good bivouac.

I could imagine this view veritably inviting her to bypass the Refuge.

 

[Zoomy]

Anyone notice photo no 74, the goat in a rock hole/crevice?

I'm wondering how it got in there, as the hole looks too small for it to have entered from there? Has it fallen in I wonder, or climbed in of its own accord?

That's just the clockwise version of the trip that is reflected in the photo blog ^^? It includes the Hospice? I think my idea was she decided on the spur of the moment to go anti-clockwise.

This is the clockwise version, w/ fabulous photos: Randonnée Pic Sauvegarde 2738m – Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano

 

[RickshawFan]

Anyone notice photo no 74, the goat in a rock hole/crevice?

Has it fallen in I wonder, or climbed in of its own accord?

So, using my basic French... The guys had some discussion about getting it out of the hole. They decided the goat didn’t look in the least distressed, so had probably found himself a special little place. The crevice, they thought, might even be human construction or adapted.

 

[Zoomy]

So, using my basic French... The guys had some discussion about getting it out of the hole. They decided the goat didn’t look in the least distressed, so had probably found himself a special little place. The crevice, they thought, might even be human construction or adapted.

Thanks for translating. I'm not convinced it would have been able to get out of there easily, but lets hope it did!

 

[Niner]

Well, foof. What kind of competition is that? No way I should have the same number of goodie-two-shoes points as @Niner . I mean, I'm just not in that league.

Oh but you are! Love your posts!

I believe ED had an accident - probably getting water - slipped & drowned...

 

[sundaaaay]

Is that the ravine on the trail to the Hospice from the Refuge? Or?

FWIW I agree with most everything in RedHaus's post ^^.

I’m not sure where exactly that ravine is, but if you search Chemin de l'Impératrice + Ravin (ravine in French) and Cascade (waterfall in French) you get an idea of the type of geography in that area. Most of the streams running off the mountain will carve ravines over time but from the map it’s not obvious. Had ED went off piste and walked parallel to the route, or taken a shortcut, she likely would have come across one of these ravines.

 

[FrostOwl]

At the Refuge de Venasque, there seems to be some smaller ponds of water, behind the building (pic 2). If ED made it there, wouldn't she more likely try these for water, rather than the big lake in front of the Refuge, with steep sides?

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m not sure where exactly that ravine is, but if you search Chemin de l'Impératrice + Ravin (ravine in French) and Cascade (waterfall in French) you get an idea of the type of geography in that area. Most of the streams running off the mountain will carve ravines over time but from the map it’s not obvious. Had ED went off piste and walked parallel to the route, or taken a shortcut, she likely would have come across one of these ravines.

This is a partial answer from: Randonnée Pic Sauvegarde 2738m – Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano

Sooner or later, the C de l'I would have been on ED's route.

 

[RickshawFan]

At the Refuge de Venasque, there seems to be some smaller ponds of water, behind the building (pic 2). If ED made it there, wouldn't she more likely try these for water, rather than the big lake in front of the Refuge, with steep sides?

That blue thing looks like an outhouse. I thought the outhouse was further away. Interesting....

If that water in the smaller pond looked murky, it might not have been very attractive, depending on if ED brought a filter. Hopefully, she brought a stove, though, so she could have boiled water. It's the fuel and water categories where I don't trust ED's decision making. Fuel canisters are not that cheap, and she might have skimped. I wouldn't (I like my hot stuff), but many hikers would just take cold food for one overnight (e.g. sandwiches), but if you didn't have a filter, either...

Folks, do not go on a long hike without a filter of some kind! And keep it in your "grab and go bag". These days they come in a straw format for emergencies (e.g. Lifestraw). (Don't rely on a straw for overnight,IMO, however: these days, filters—like Sawyers—are very light, and you'll drink way more).

At any rate, yes, indeed, there are a lot of potential water sources around the Refuge. However, I'm not sure we decided yet that ED would have chosen to get water near the Refuge. She might have been so determined to avoid the Refuge, she took a route where accessible water was hard to find.

 

[sundaaaay]

At the Refuge de Venasque, there seems to be some smaller ponds of water, behind the building (pic 2). If ED made it there, wouldn't she more likely try these for water, rather than the big lake in front of the Refuge, with steep sides?

A lot of hikers carry bottles with a built in filter but I’m not sure ED was carrying one. It’s safer bet to use water that’s flowing and the higher up the water source the less possibility of it being contaminated. I’m not sure people would drink from the lake, it looks clean but it may not be.

 

[RickshawFan]

A lot of hikers carry bottles with a built in filter but I’m not sure ED was carrying one. It’s safer bet to use water that’s flowing and the higher up the water source the less possibility of it being contaminated. I’m not sure people would drink from the lake, it looks clean but it may not be.

Yes, some hikers carry those bottles. However, too much work and HEAVY. I don't usually recommend them except in developing countries (if, that is, the filter for viruses is included). The reason is, it's difficult to suck enough water through a straw filter. It's very hard work. Plus, the replacement filters are expensive. But on a train in India? Great solution.
FYI the hard plastic bottles are heavy. This is another reason experienced hikers will forego the "filter in a bottle" solution: they don't like the weight of the bottles they come in.

 

[sundaaaay]

The photo of the big ravine I shared earlier is within Chemin de l'Impératrice and is called 'Gouffre du Malaplatte', 'Gouffre' is a cave in french. It seems to be a stopping point on the trail, but if ED went off piste and accessed it from the wrong point obviously this could be a fatal mistake. Its unclear how long the ravine runs for or if there are any signs or barriers at the top.

There is a viewing point of a section of the cave along the trail