Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[PeggyHenry]

The police forces have been reported as believing that there are many possible explanations for ED’ disappearance making reference to the possibility of her no longer being in the mountains etc. They have alluded to her personal life and clearly feel that whilst she may have had an accident on the mountains they are also exploring other possibilities. They have opened a criminal investigation .. for this reason I don’t think it’s unreasonable that we also look at those possibilities which does involve discussion of character / associates/ behaviours etc. Of course there are forum rules to respect and we have to adhere to these.

 

[patCee]

Partner of missing hiker dismisses ‘new life’ theory

At the risk of being repetitive I've attached an old article that gives straight forward thoughts about her disappearance from DC and EDs mother. Showing that weeks ago, having covered the area himself, DC was very sceptical about the possibility ED had fallen into a lake or other accident. He has confidence that the terrain is well within EDs abilities. He also confirms their relationship was a positive one with regular communication between them and they were looking forward to being together again. Indicating his awareness that some will think the latter could be a problem, and one the police would have explored with him.

Reading it again I wonder what was in his mind and how that influenced the police captain's comments re voluntary disappearance or someone else involved. DC is the person who knows her more than anyone. This seems, at that time, to have been a thought out reaction and he clearly believed something else had happened to her, i.e. someone else involved in a criminal act. What else could it be? This wasn't an emotional denial of the situation as the alternative would be terrible, and my impression, although limited, is that DC is a realistic, pragmatic person in his management of situations.

Whilst crime/violence is with us everywhere, it's hard to imagine such a situation in a venue like the Pyrenees, where realistically there are few criminal finanical gains to be had. An area where nature lovers and hikers like to exercise, challenge themselves and spend their down time.

 

[RickshawFan]

The alternative route (bypassing the Refuge) from the Pic to the Hospice goes via the Port de là Picade then the Crête de Crabidès.

 

[jsoap]

Regarding what the planned route was going to be, after reading Esther & Dan's blog, I would say any one is a possibility.

I have great admiration for the challenges that they set themselves. However it is apparent that Dan is the driving force, pushing the limits each time. Despite what appears to be a general lack of detail planning, almost to the point of relishing the unknown, they have an underlying confidence that it will all work out ok.
I think, that the preface to Dan's book about their 2019 trek "Just Around the Matterhorm" reflects this.

But with no fixed itinerary or timeframe, they find themselves taking a somewhat different route as they hike and camp higher than they’ve ever been before.
Having started out determined to “take it easy”, they instead find themselves pushing their boundaries across glaciers, precipitous ridges and vertical laddered cliffs while also battling illness and at times being hardly able to eat. Yet through the kindness of strangers, the inspirational people they meet and by leaning on each other when the going gets tough, a challenge that could have been a step too far instead becomes the adventure of a lifetime.

This was an extremely tough 4 week trek, only to be surpassed this year by 80 days on the Via Alpina.
On this solo trip Esther's fb posts, repeatedly mention this need to push past her fears to prove she can do it on her own.

On our mountain trips, we sometimes end up on lesser walked routes - at which point my wife starts asking "is there actually a path here?". Usually after a heated discussion, we go ahead or sometimes we turn back. Experience has now taught me that I need to hear that other voice to reel back my enthusiasm, and try to think logically about what we are doing.

 

[patCee]

This was an extremely tough 4 week trek, only to be surpassed this year by 80 days on the Via Alpina.
On this solo trip Esther's fb posts, repeatedly mention this need to push past her fears to prove she can do it on her own.

Very revealing about how they saw their experiences and tested themselves. The excerpt re reference to 'glaciers, precipitous ridges and vertical laddered cliffs'. Maybe explains his view of the pyrenees routes as relatively 'easy' for ED. Ominous! Left me thinking ED may have pushed herself too far.

 

[jsoap]

Very revealing about how they saw their experiences and tested themselves. The excerpt re reference to 'glaciers, precipitous ridges and vertical laddered cliffs'. Maybe explains his view of the pyrenees routes as relatively 'easy' for ED. Ominous! Left me thinking ED may have pushed herself too far.

Likewise, I've been on a lot of the routes they have been on and this area is easily within their fitness and experience level. My main concern would be the very idea of camping at this altitude at the end of November.

 

[RickshawFan]

Very revealing about how they saw their experiences and tested themselves. The excerpt re reference to 'glaciers, precipitous ridges and vertical laddered cliffs'. Maybe explains his view of the pyrenees routes as relatively 'easy' for ED. Ominous! Left me thinking ED may have pushed herself too far.

I find this theme of "pushing beyond one's boundaries" very troubling and dangerous in outdoor activities. Nature has no respect for human "boundaries". It's not a "thing". Respect for nature, its whims, unknowns, and surprises, is the way we survive. This requires risk mitigation, not doing something you might not be ready (as in prepared, skilled, comfortable with) for, and backing off when you hear your instincts telling you to: they probably have it right.

Even apart from the current COVID emptiness in the backcountry, there's a reason the Pyrenees are not a popular hiking destination in November.

I thought I'd place some examples where folks "pushed their boundaries".

College student on a trip to the Ozarks fell 100 feet to her death while posing for a photo | fox8.com

Kate Matrosova found dead after getting stranded in treacherous conditions on holiday climb | Daily Mail Online

The Storm. The Mountain. Every Parent's Worst Nightmare.

 

[fridaybaker]

I find this theme of "pushing beyond one's boundaries" very troubling and dangerous in outdoor activities. Nature has no respect for human "boundaries". It's not a "thing". Respect for nature, its whims, unknowns, and surprises, is the way we survive. This requires risk mitigation, not doing something you might not be ready (as in prepared, skilled, comfortable with) for, and backing off when you hear your instincts telling you to: they probably have it right.

Even apart from the current COVID emptiness in the backcountry, there's a reason the Pyrenees are not a popular hiking destination in November.

I thought I'd place some examples where folks "pushed their boundaries".

College student on a trip to the Ozarks fell 100 feet to her death while posing for a photo | fox8.com

Kate Matrosova found dead after getting stranded in treacherous conditions on holiday climb | Daily Mail Online

The Storm. The Mountain. Every Parent's Worst Nightmare.

Rickshaw, you have touched on what I've been thinking from the beginning here: There is a trend in our culture for people to "test" themselves by continually "pushing beyond their boundaries", "pushing past their fear", etc. It puts so many people at risk -those who search/rescue (and many have died doing just that) and creates tragedy for family and loved ones.

Yes, the range of routes ED was on may have been "well within her comfort level/expertise", but, she was alone, and this was November in the Pyrenees. I would challenge anyone to do any serious checking into hiking the Pyrenees November through March without finding a plethora of warnings about how dangerous it can be, and how quickly a "simple, easy" hike can turn into a survival situation.

That said, there are other dangers a person can get into (and I hate to say it, but being a woman alone has its own, inherent challenges) when travelling to any remote place alone. Certainly, I don't think criminals tend to congregate on mountain peaks in late November; however, bad actors are everywhere. One better hope one doesn't run into one of them when hiking alone, because if you do, you are a sitting duck. No one to hear you scream; no one to rescue you. Or even, no one to confirm your own appraisal of the person/situation now confronting you -"friend or foe"? Take the ride or pass it up?

I hope ED is found okay, but my thoughts are still along the lines of accident/injury or victim of crime. Neither of these ends well.

 

[patCee]

I find this theme of "pushing beyond one's boundaries" very troubling and dangerous in outdoor activities. Nature has no respect for human "boundaries". It's not a "thing". Respect for nature, its whims, unknowns, and surprises, is the way we survive. This requires risk mitigation, not doing something you might not be ready (as in prepared, skilled, comfortable with) for, and backing off when you hear your instincts telling you to: they probably have it right.

Phew! My heart pounded reading the school tragedy. Interesting that the admired school leader Tom Goman was later seen by one fan to have 'issues' and did a crazy demo for them, alongside leading them into danger. Highlights those who followed their instincts re what was manageable- v- those who unknowingly followed the reckless, or just didn't recognise danger. What is it with people from these eminent educational establishments?
The Russian woman sadly also pushed herself too far, and again alone. The star jump seems to be a theme.
I was unable to read the Ozacks story as no access to Europe allowed.
Thank you for the attachments.

 

[RickshawFan]

Phew! My heart pounded reading the school tragedy. Interesting that the admired school leader Tom Goman was later seen by one fan to have 'issues' and did a crazy demo for them, alongside leading them into danger. Highlights those who followed their instincts re what was manageable- v- those who unknowingly followed the reckless, or just didn't recognise danger. What is it with people from these eminent educational establishments?
The Russian woman sadly also pushed herself too far, and again alone. The star jump seems to be a theme.
I was unable to read the Ozacks story as no access to Europe allowed.
Thank you for the attachments.

Here's actually a better example that resulted in 3 hiker deaths in the Ozarks. Hopefully, the link will work for you. The day was mild (60 degrees F), the father was "experienced", it's low altitude, it's a kid-friendly hike, and he even turned down a lift back to the resort. Father and two sons die while hiking

 

[mrjitty]

Here's actually a better example that resulted in 3 hiker deaths in the Ozarks. Hopefully, the link will work for you. The day was mild (60 degrees F), the father was "experienced", it's low altitude, it's a kid-friendly hike, and he even turned down a lift back to the resort. Father and two sons die while hiking

Like I've been saying - this happens in NZ every summer

 

[10ofRods]

I find this theme of "pushing beyond one's boundaries" very troubling and dangerous in outdoor activities. Nature has no respect for human "boundaries". It's not a "thing". Respect for nature, its whims, unknowns, and surprises, is the way we survive. This requires risk mitigation, not doing something you might not be ready (as in prepared, skilled, comfortable with) for, and backing off when you hear your instincts telling you to: they probably have it right.

Even apart from the current COVID emptiness in the backcountry, there's a reason the Pyrenees are not a popular hiking destination in November.

I thought I'd place some examples where folks "pushed their boundaries".

College student on a trip to the Ozarks fell 100 feet to her death while posing for a photo | fox8.com

Kate Matrosova found dead after getting stranded in treacherous conditions on holiday climb | Daily Mail Online

The Storm. The Mountain. Every Parent's Worst Nightmare.

Just 3 years before that first story in the Ozarks, another young person fell off the same place:

Young hiker killed in fall at Hawksbill Crag

 

[RedHaus]

dbm

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

It has have been posted twice before in Esther's threads that suggesting her disappearance is a hoax is not allowed. It is not victim friendly, and such posts will be removed along with all responses.

ZERO TOLERANCE. Any future posts of this nature will absolutely result in a loss of posting privileges.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I had my post removed for insinuating a hoax but that was not even close to what my meaning was, so I am going to try again.

I had said that maybe the "reliance on the kindness of strangers" was so much a part of their book "theme" or "brand" that it led ED to take more risks than she would otherwise have felt safe doing.

Asking for fruit for reasons other than actual nutritional or hydrational need, is in no way implying that her disappearance is a hoax.

I believe she had an unfortunate accident on the mountain and will be found in the spring or later. I think it's possible that her "theme" of pushing her comfort zones may have helped cause this accident.

MOO

Hope this clarifies my meaning and this post is permitted to stand.

 

[Grouse]

Missing Brit hiker Esther Dingley 'was last seen by woman who gave her food'

As this has now been reported on MSM (even if it is The Sun), I guess it means we are allowed to discuss this sighting of Esther mentioned on Esther & Dan's facebook by French woman Mirabelle Bisset. I think the Sun have got it wrong by saying it was hours before she was last seen though, as MB had said it was October 31st when she saw Esther.

Yes looks like they have got it wrong in an attempt to make an old story look like new news.

 

[otto]

I'm curious whether Esther's determination to achieve greater solo heights left her with blinders on intuition about her limits - just a question after reading their books and about their lives.

 

[otto]

I want to take the angry facebook woman who was "asked for food" with a grain of salt. Is there a photo of Esther wearing shorts on a mountain hike? I haven't seen any. The woman claims that a woman who looks like Esther was hiking mountains in shorts and bothering others for food. It doesn't seem credible.

What I'm saying is that the Dec 2020 food-ask remark is a month after people are worried about Esther's disappearance in the Pyrenees on Nov 22. It seems like a fake ransom note.

 

[Zoomy]

I want to take the angry facebook woman who was "asked for food" with a grain of salt. Is there a photo of Esther wearing shorts on a mountain hike? I haven't seen any. The woman claims that a woman who looks like Esther was hiking mountains in shorts and bothering others for food. It doesn't seem credible.

What I'm saying is that the Dec 2020 food-ask remark is a month after people are worried about Esther's disappearance in the Pyrenees on Nov 22. It seems like a fake ransom note.

I thought it was made up by the french woman at first too, but there is an instagram photo taken by someone, of Esther wearing black shorts, dated around 7th November, and she is walking uphill holding a dog by it's lead (not one of her own dogs). Esther says it is from a solo trip she did in a national park the week before, so I'm now thinking this is where she might have met the french woman.

 

[Puzzles]

Snipped for focus and BBM;:

I want to take the angry facebook woman who was "asked for food" with a grain of salt. Is there a photo of Esther wearing shorts on a mountain hike? I haven't seen any. The woman claims that a woman who looks like Esther was hiking mountains in shorts and bothering others for food. It doesn't seem credible.

What I'm saying is that the Dec 2020 food-ask remark is a month after people are worried about Esther's disappearance in the Pyrenees on Nov 22. It seems like a fake ransom note.

I believe our sleuth who found photos ED posted on Nov 7th stated they were the first publicized since October 31. In one of them ED is wearing shorts. Perhaps our sleuth will reply with verification, or to firmly remind me my memory isn't always infallible.