Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[RickshawFan]

If she didn't need the food, she wouldn't ask for it because it means carrying more food than she needs.

I can see that even if you took the wrong trail, you'd end up okay. The mountains would situate you, and worse comes to worst, if you got mixed up where you have those arrows, you'd end up back at the Refuge. No harm no foul.
IMO this is not a "she got lost" scenario.

 

[RedHaus]

It would be interesting to know how finances were managed whilst hiking. When we see CCTV of Esther in the shop she is only buying the chia seeds. I would have imagined a trip to the shop would be to stock up on a few provisions for the next hike etc. She buys only one item and is paying attention to the price. It does indicate the possibility that Esther had limited finance and was stretching it out.
Perhaps she only carried cash .. although I imagine a debit/ credit card was needed and kept somewhere. When she drove off in her camper van she would have needed fuel at some stage. Her budget may have been very low. Perhaps she could not access funds.
Having said that, maybe she lives very frugally regardless of where she is. Going back to the cctv .. she doesn’t appear happy and cheerful but gives the appearance of being concerned about her her purchase so I’m guessing money was a concern at that point in time. JMO

And lets not forget our little discussion about Chia Seeds, I think in Thread #2. While a bit silly at the time given the serious nature of this sad case, your comment, @PeggyHenry, sparks me to point back to one of the points made in that Chia Seed discussion - they are a great way to put bulk into a very hungry tummy.

 

[RickshawFan]

3 entrees for a budget vegan dinner entree on a long-distance hike might look like:

Very light:
1. instant polenta, instant black beans, some dried tomatoes or single-serving salsa, chili powder, strips of peppers... Placed in ziploc. Reconstituted with boiling water at dinner.

Also very light:
2. instant mashed potatoes or Ramen, instant vegan gravy, olive oil, a chopped cooked carrot, some soy powder. A side of 2 T peanut butter. Reconstituted with boiling water.

Heavier: what the Lithuanian hiker took
3. Potatoes (you can precook); olive oil; a little baggie full of interesting things to throw on potatoes, e.g. dried chives.... and soy chopped in or bacos (some kind of protein). Cold or warmed up.

I'm hoping you can see the food thing in this case is not about money. There were choices happening here...

 

[RickshawFan]

And lets not forget our little discussion about Chia Seeds, I think in Thread #2. While a bit silly at the time given the serious nature of this sad case, your comment, @PeggyHenry, sparks me to point back to one of the points made in that Chia Seed discussion - they are a great way to put bulk into a very hungry tummy.

Yes, that.
IIRC I added that putting extra bulk in your tummy on a hiking trip would be VERY inconvenient, especially with the exposure in ED's hiking area. LE had better have checked the privy at the Refuge....

 

[otto]

I can see that even if you took the wrong trail, you'd end up okay. The mountains would situate you, and worse comes to worst, if you got mixed up where you have those arrows, you'd end up back at the Refuge. No harm no foul.
IMO this is not a "she got lost" scenario.

Getting lost in the backcountry, even when there are marked trails, is not unusual. It happened to the snow shoe-er near Vancouver last week. She hiked up the trail, sent a text to a friend, began her descent, realized she was off-trail, sent another text, and her body was found a few days later. She should have been able to follow her tracks in the snow down the mountain, but even that went wrong.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

If she didn't need the food, she wouldn't ask for it because it means carrying more food than she needs.

This extract is from the dossier, he says she also bought fruit from refuges whether she had enough other food or not.

Also, in the second para he is making the point that she asked the other hiker for food at the beginning of a four day hike. In other words, at that point she would not have been malnourished or impaired in any way.

I think a lot of our discussion on here comes down to whether you believe the dossier is accurate or not.

 

[otto]

This extract is from the dossier, he says she also bought fruit from refuges whether she had enough other food or not.

Also, in the second para he is making the point that she asked the other hiker for food at the beginning of a four day hike. In other words, at that point she would not have been malnourished or impaired in any way.

I think a lot of our discussion on here comes down to whether you believe the dossier is accurate or not.

The dossier seems to be written by Esther's partner. I have posted several links quoting French and Spanish SAR stating that they favour accident, but cannot rule out voluntary disappearance. Esther's partner favours third party interference.

One reason that her partner prefers third party interference could be because that is the only option where Esther may still be alive. All other options mean she is deceased. I trust objective SAR over a personal account from her partner.

Regarding Esther asking strangers for food, her hike started on Nov 21. On Nov 22, an hour from the summit, she asked a stranger for food. Asking strangers to give away their food on a backcountry hike is not an ice-breaker. It's asking strangers to part with the necessities of life.

Refuges were closed for Winter, although people could stay at the refuges using the honour system for payment and signin - not sure why he thinks that Esther could buy fruit at refuges.

 

[Hatty]

Each time we discuss Esther asking strangers for food, I wonder what I would do in that situation. If I was on a backcountry hike with enough provisions for myself when a friendly stranger asked for some food, would I give it? The two women gave Esther food, the male olympian did not.

I think I would tell her that I had no food, even if that was not true. I think the olympian did have food, as I cannot imagine an elite athlete hiking without, at the very least, a couple of energy bars. I think people that gave her food felt sorry for her, whereas she perhaps viewed asking for food as a commune style backpacker way of life. The problem is that she was 6 years into nomadic living and others were on day hikes. If she was at home in the UK, how would she feel if strangers asked her for food? Was she able to see the disconnect in how she was living?

Yes I agree Otto. It’s a weird thing to do, even if you’re just doing it to start a conversation. I would happily start a conversation without asking someone for food. In fact, it would annoy me if a random stranger asked me to give up my Lindt truffles or something ..

 

[HongKongPhooey]

The dossier seems to be written by Esther's partner. I have posted several links quoting French and Spanish SAR stating that they favour accident, but cannot rule out voluntary disappearance. Esther's partner favours third party interference.

One reason that her partner prefers third party interference could be because that is the only option where Esther may still be alive. All other options mean she is deceased. I trust objective SAR over a personal account from her partner.

Regarding Esther asking strangers for food, her hike started on Nov 21. On Nov 22, an hour from the summit, she asked a stranger for food. Asking strangers to give away their food on a backcountry hike is not an ice-breaker. It's asking strangers to part with the necessities of life.

Refuges were closed for Winter, although people could stay at the refuges using the honour system for payment and signin - not sure why he thinks that Esther could buy fruit at refuges.

I think he was referring to refuges in general terms.

Re the ice breaker, that's how they saw it though - I dont disagree with your point, and I would probably be miffed if a stranger asked me for any of my well-planned and carried supplies. If they were in dire straits of course I would help, otherwise I would think that's a bit cheeky...

It seems to me there is a naivety there which may have placed her in a dangerous situation with an unknown party. It seems far fetched, but stranger things have happened.

JMO

 

[otto]

Yes I agree Otto. It’s a weird thing to do, even if you’re just doing it to start a conversation. I would happily start a conversation without asking someone for food. In fact, it would annoy me if a random stranger asked me to give up my Lindt truffles or something ..

Exactly. I don't know why anyone would perceive asking strangers for food as normal. We see panhandlers in some city streets and we certainly don't view that as an icebreaker, or friendly way to start a conversation. It's odd to frame what is commonly known as "begging" as normal friendly interaction with strangers.

 

[otto]

I think he was referring to refuges in general terms.

Re the ice breaker, that's how they saw it though - I dont disagree with your point, and I would probably be miffed if a stranger asked me for any of my well-planned and carried supplies. If they were in dire straits of course I would help, otherwise I would think that's a bit cheeky...

It seems to me there is a naivety there which may have placed her in a dangerous situation with an unknown party. It seems far fetched, but stranger things have happened.

JMO

Esther and her partner are in their late 30s, well educated with a suitable income to allow them to travel for 6 years continuously. I cannot view either of them as "naive" regarding necessary supplies for day to day living. There's really no reason for either of them to be in "dire straights" regarding supplies during any portion of their travels unless it is part of the plan to expect strangers to make sacrifices for them.

Refuges have restaurants during high season. Experienced travellers will check refuge websites to know what is available and what to expect. Suggestions that Esther purchased food from refuges during Summer months is irrelevant to her disappearance.

 

[stmarysmead]

This extract is from the dossier, he says she also bought fruit from refuges whether she had enough other food or not.

Also, in the second para he is making the point that she asked the other hiker for food at the beginning of a four day hike. In other words, at that point she would not have been malnourished or impaired in any way.

I think a lot of our discussion on here comes down to whether you believe the dossier is accurate or not.

But wasn’t this late in the second day of this hike? She started on the 21st. She also planned on at least two more days on this trek. Suppose she was again, traveling light and hoping to replenish from friendly strangers with one night and two more days to go.

Esther made several posts on Sept 30 after she and Dan completed a harrowing ascent as darkness fell and snow turned to ice. She talks about ‘frozen fingers’ climbing over boulders as night descended. In her words..”It was exciting, thrilling and frightening.”

Someone left a comment asking “You are so alone out there..what do you use for staying on the trail?’

Esther answered, “There are markers WHEN WE CAN SEE THEM...but mostly following contours and a bit of intuitive thinking when its totally covered.”

So they had successfully made a frightening, snowy ascent as night fell less than 2 months before she disappeared. . Maybe in good weather, this memory had encouraged her to push on further than the Refuge even as darkness fell.

 

[Bethan]

Dan, who knows her best, has given such a loving and detailed description of Esther in his dossier. She certainly is physically strong and she is experienced in regard to the activities that comprise their lifestyle. She is also very intelligent and her multiple degrees confirm this.

Emotionally, Esther is exquisitely sensitive and abundantly caring. Dan tells us this and we have her own social media to confirm this. But IMO, this aspect of this lovely woman is both her blessing and her curse.

People, even those of us posting here, are drawn to her as she exudes such a depth of caring and emotional intelligence. She feels everything so deeply. Maybe far too deeply for her own mental health. I sense she is a bit of people pleaser. Was she really carrying such a tiny bit of nourishment to “travel light” or was she trying not to not impact an already strained budget?

So i wonder in my speculation, how would an overly sensitive person like Esther bring herself...perhaps...to make changes in her life that might devastate her partner of so many years? How does she self-care...which she writes continually about...if emotionally, she knows that what her self-care requires, will upturn a loved ones entire world?

Esther liked to travel light but I think she was weighted down with many, many emotional burdens on this trip. As an emotional person myself, I can attest to the distraction that envelops your brain when emotion assumes control. I wonder if all those calls, contacts on the top of the Pic just enveloped her mind as she proceeded on and contributed to a careless fatal mistake?

Or did she decide that it all seemed too complicated. All speculation on my part of course.

Beautifully put!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Esther and her partner are in their late 30s, well educated with a suitable income to allow them to travel for 6 years continuously. I cannot view either of them as "naive" regarding necessary supplies for day to day living. There's really no reason for either of them to be in "dire straights" regarding supplies during any portion of their travels unless it is part of the plan to expect strangers to make sacrifices for them.

Refuges have restaurants during high season. Experienced travellers will check refuge websites to know what is available and what to expect. Suggestions that Esther purchased food from refuges during Summer months is irrelevant to her disappearance.

I seem to be creating some confusion.

I dont believe Esther and Dan were in dire straits, I was making the point I would help if someone were.

I do think it is naive not to realise that fellow hikers might take umbrage to being asked to share their supplies. I'm not referring to being well equipped in terms of naivety.

The point about buying food from refuges is in the dossier regarding her disappearance. I cant see the relevance either, but it seems it has been included in response to claims that she asked for food due to being badly prepared.

Hope this clarifies

 

[patCee]

DBM

 

[patCee]

So they had successfully made a frightening, snowy ascent as night fell less than 2 months before she disappeared. . Maybe in good weather, this memory had encouraged her to push on further than the Refuge even as darkness fell.

SBM for focus

But.......she would have phone contact shortly after passing the refuge but made no contact with anyone, or didn't make it that far. I thought cell contact was about 30 min onward from the refuge. Maybe I'm confused it wouldn't be difficult.

 

[beubeubeu]

Exactly. I don't know why anyone would perceive asking strangers for food as normal. We see panhandlers in some city streets and we certainly don't view that as an icebreaker, or friendly way to start a conversation. It's odd to frame what is commonly known as "begging" as normal friendly interaction with strangers.

Well, I wouldn't refuse food someone who would ask me for it and looked like someone in need. Things happen.
But in mountain? With all due respect, maybe if it was quite warm and safe, then sure, I could share whatever I have while not having to worry about having anything to eat.
But even having some to spare I would not share it with some hippie minded weirdo who wants to get some enriching experience. Sorry, but no.
Things happen. What if I would found someone injured, who lost his food and is in desperate need and have nothing to gave because I already shared what I had with someone who just expected to get something for someone?
It might happen to me or someone else. And just because of that I wouldn't be up for encouraging such behaviour which I find dangerous. Most people carefully plan their backpacks and spends to be safe, sometimes some unfortunate events happen even with that.
More you travel and hike, more people you meet with that irresponssible attitude of planning things and spends poorly (and not as one time thing, not as a mistake) with hope of getting something for free from locals or other travellers, praying on their good intentions. More people like that - higher the risk of someone really unfortunate not getting help in need cause someone else with weird spiritual attitude drained all resources.

It's enough to hear once from someone taking way too less food or water on a trip, that he had a plan to ask someone for it through the hike to not be up for sharing anything with anyone.

I highly doubt that she got there with full stomach. It's not good to eat just before, have 200 calories through 24h and another meal after. It makes hiking unnecessarily harder.

 

[stmarysmead]

SBM for focus

But.......she would have phone contact shortly after passing the refuge but made no contact with anyone, or didn't make it that far. I thought cell contact was about 30 min onward from the refuge.

You are right. Unless, as we previously discussed, she slipped and tumbled into the lake.

 

[otto]

I seem to be creating some confusion.

I dont believe Esther and Dan were in dire straits, I was making the point I would help if someone were.

I do think it is naive not to realise that fellow hikers might take umbrage to being asked to share their supplies. I'm not referring to being well equipped in terms of naivety.

The point about buying food from refuges is in the dossier regarding her disappearance. I cant see the relevance either, but it seems it has been included in response to claims that she asked for food due to being badly prepared.

Hope this clarifies

I understand, but I have also noticed the word "naive" to describe Esther many times. It does give the benefit of the doubt in terms of her expecting strangers to provide for her as her "naive" way of making new temporary friends. It's just that I disagree that she was naive.

She's an Oxford educated woman in her late 30s who had enough financial savvy to essentially retire in her early 30s so she could travel the world and have fun adventures. There's nothing naive about that. I'm interpreting this more along the lines of pushing limits to see how far she could go. I see this as a woman who achieves a goal, so she refines the parameters and expectations for the next goal.

If they travel without food, what happens? If they stay on the mountain too late when a snow storm is blowing in, what happens? If she starts hiking the summit late in the day when everyone is heading home, what happens? If she hikes without enough food what happens? That's how I see her, not as a naive woman who didn't know better, or who believed that asking strangers for gifts was friendly, but as someone who defined her trip plan such that it would be more challenging than the previous trip.

 

[beubeubeu]

I'm vegetarian, as much as I can I prefer vegan diet. I never been in spain but in other european countries it's just expansive to eat like that. And usually it's hard to find good things around less populated, hiking trail areas.
Buying it wherever may cost few times more than making one big grocery shopping in bigger city (if you have a way to store it).
She was probably starving. Maybe even without realizing that, just running on fumes.