Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[Grouse]

Y'all are making me want to go to England and do some walking on the moors.

When it comes to moors you can't beat Yorkshire. The "3 Peaks" is a good one to try if you are fit (I thought I was, and I managed it but it was a bit tougher than I thought) - 22 Miles and app 5166 ft of ascent spread across (of course) 3 peaks. Some bogs to navigate as well so expect to get wet. The challenge is to do it in under 12 hours, then enjoy a well deserved pint of beer at the end.

 

[Grouse]

I do wonder if Esther went back there for the night on 22nd. I can’t recall which news outlet mentioned the Maladeta Glacier but it was not on her planned route, and I thought at that time it was an odd place to mention.

But.... maybe she saw it from Sauvegarde and changed her plan, decided to get home a day or two earlier by crashing at La Besurta again and crossing the glacier the next day. It would be the most direct route from La B to the campervan. And we know Esther loves glaciers. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if she’s found there.

If she went over the glacier and had an accident wouldn't she be easily spotted by SAR? Or has the glacier moved? Remember doing glaciers in O level geography, and I thought they were very stable things that took thousands of years to change? Mind you I did fail it the first time.

 

[Grouse]

I do wonder if Esther went back there for the night on 22nd.

All talk has been about checking the Refuge de Venasque but I do wonder about that, if she went back to the Cabane de la Besurta. Looks like it might be accessible by a road as well if I've got the right place here, which opens up some new possibilities ...

Google Maps

 

[otto]

Ok, you're focussing on the specifics of that particular day there Otto, and you may be right! I thought I read something that implied more hikers around that day (paraphrasing but something about "everyone else was on their way down"?) but I can't substantiate it.

But I was also thinking in wider terms of the days leading up to it, and just making the point that in general there were still a fair few people out and about hiking the hills and it was not as quiet as might be thought. Also we can't take it for granted that no one was ascending from the French side (lockdown or not) . The skier would not have been aware of that.

I am focused on the last day that Esther is confirmed to be alive. There's no evidence that she was alive on Nov 23 even though there is cell service on the trail that she planned to take that morning.

What if people in France broke lockdown and hiked the summit on Nov 22? At this time, there's no information suggesting this.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

All talk has been about checking the Refuge de Venasque but I do wonder about that, if she went back to the Cabane de la Besurta. Looks like it might be accessible by a road as well if I've got the right place here, which opens up some new possibilities ...

Google Maps

Yes, that’s the right place. Difficult to tell if she stayed there twice or just once though, forensically or otherwise.

Can you see Benasque to the south west, where the van was parked? Maladeta glacier is between the two. As is Aneto, which iirc Esther had climbed already. And so the search area widens.

This article was from mid December:

It has been speculated that she fell while crossing an icy stretch of Mount Maladeta, close to the Spanish town of Benasque, where Esther had parked her camper van and set out on a five-day solo hike. Guide [PL] told the Sun he suspects a mountain accident occurred.... "My theory is that she probably fell while on the glacier and that means it could take five years for her to be found as we have to wait for it to melt and descend.”

Missing Brit hiker 'may not be found for five years if she fell on glacier'

 

[otto]

Not to mention the Cabane de la Besurta where ED stayed on the night of 21st. Presumably that has been equally checked, eg for evidence of if anyone else stayed there that night or if ED was alone.

She stayed there alone that night. Don't recall the link - might be the dossier.

 

[Grouse]

I am focused on the last day that Esther is confirmed to be alive. There's no evidence that she was alive on Nov 23 even though there is cell service on the trail that she planned to take that morning.

What if people in France broke lockdown and hiked the summit on Nov 22? At this time, there's no information suggesting this.

No you are quite right Otto there's not much information at all really TBH. That is our challenge.

 

[Grouse]

She stayed there alone that night. Don't recall the link - might be the dossier.

Nope, there's no confirmation of her being alone. Dossier only says "22/11 –After spending the night at Cabane de la Besurtas, she returns to Pic de Sauvegarde at around 15:30."

 

[ZaZara]

Yes, that’s the right place. Difficult to tell if she stayed there twice or just once though, forensically or otherwise.

Can you see Benasque to the south west, where the van was parked? Maladeta glacier is between the two. As is Aneto, which iirc Esther had climbed already. And so the search area widens.

This article was from mid December:

It has been speculated that she fell while crossing an icy stretch of Mount Maladeta, close to the Spanish town of Benasque, where Esther had parked her camper van and set out on a five-day solo hike. Guide [PL] told the Sun he suspects a mountain accident occurred.... "My theory is that she probably fell while on the glacier and that means it could take five years for her to be found as we have to wait for it to melt and descend.”

Missing Brit hiker 'may not be found for five years if she fell on glacier'

We have had this discussion in thread 2, and the conclusion was that it was all speculation (by the newspaper) and no substance.

Starting around here:

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

Esther Dingley was hiking. To climb the glacier of the Maladeta you need crampons. These are not on the list of the items she took with her.

 

[otto]

Nope, there's no confirmation of her being alone. Dossier only says "22/11 –After spending the night at Cabane de la Besurtas, she returns to Pic de Sauvegarde at around 15:30."

From the dossier:

"21/11 - Evening – Spends the night alone at Cabana de la Besurtas on the Spanish side (Esther had no phone signal once she left the peak, but she confirmed this the following day when she returned to Pic de Sauvegarde)

22/11 – After spending the night at Cabane de la Besurtas, she returns to Pic de Sauvegarde at around 15:30. Over the next half an hour she shares WhatsApp messages with Dan and other family members. Final contact is at 16:07 in a WhatsApp video call with Dan from the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde. Esther confirms her onward route and signs off as normal. After this time, nobody has heard from or reported seeing Esther anywhere."
​

https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We have had this discussion in thread 2, and the conclusion was that it was all speculation (by the newspaper) and no substance.

Starting around here:

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

Esther Dingley was hiking. To climb the glacier of the Maladeta you need crampons. These are not on the list of the items she took with her.

You’re right, it’s been covered already. There really is nothing left to discuss without rehashing everything ad nauseum.

I suppose we’re just waiting for new news. Could be a looooong wait though. Must be agonising for her loved ones

 

[Grouse]

From the dossier:

"21/11 - Evening – Spends the night alone at Cabana de la Besurtas on the Spanish side (Esther had no phone signal once she left the peak, but she confirmed this the following day when she returned to Pic de Sauvegarde)

22/11 – After spending the night at Cabane de la Besurtas, she returns to Pic de Sauvegarde at around 15:30. Over the next half an hour she shares WhatsApp messages with Dan and other family members. Final contact is at 16:07 in a WhatsApp video call with Dan from the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde. Esther confirms her onward route and signs off as normal. After this time, nobody has heard from or reported seeing Esther anywhere."
​

https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

Yes, you were right good point, well made.

As for the 22nd though as @CoverMeCagney stated we might consider the possibility of her returning there on 22nd? We know her plan was RdeV that night but it is possible that a plan can be changed. And if she did stay at C de la B that night, and it is in a place where there is vehicular access, then the possibility of third party abduction (that DC has alluded to) has to be reconsidered.

 

[Grouse]

You’re right, it’s been covered already. There really is nothing left to discuss without rehashing everything ad nauseum.

I suppose we’re just waiting for new news. Could be a looooong wait though. Must be agonising for her loved ones

We are just all waiting for new news and going round in a circular fashion. It's hard to refrain when we are all so hooked into this case but maybe the sensible thing is to just leave it for a while until something actually happens. MOO

 

[otto]

Yes, you were right good point, well made.

As for the 22nd though as @CoverMeCagney stated we might consider the possibility of her returning there on 22nd? We know her plan was RdeV that night but it is possible that a plan can be changed. And if she did stay at C de la B that night, and it is in a place where there is vehicular access, then the possibility of third party abduction (that DC has alluded to) has to be reconsidered.

Sure, but she told her partner during her communication from the summit that she was heading to the Refuge de Venasque. Why would we doubt this?

 

[Grouse]

Sure, but she told her partner during her communication from the summit that she was heading to the Refuge de Venasque. Why would we doubt this?

Because we have no idea what happened, so we need to keep an open mind and consider other possibilities beyond the literal facts we have knowledge of. Also people sometimes change their minds, it happens .MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

Thanks, yes OK with the ankle it's managable. The Brecon Beacons are great (I did Pen Y Fan and then down via Cribyn and it was glorious but gets really misty), but a bit further North in mid Wales it gets much more remote - this is a great book about a guy who lived off grid there for years https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deep-Country-Years-Welsh-Hills/dp/0141049324

Shame what you say about Maine forests being stripped, guess I'd built up an idealised picture in my mind. If I ever get to the US again certainly a place I'd love to visit.

Yes, it does get more remote into the middle of Wales (I've been there, too). I especially love areas with moors, though. You can seem miles from civilization.
Now, I hanker to go to the Pyrenees. I so want to do that run down to the Hospice from the Port, gaze at those little lakes, check out the Port...

 

[Grouse]

Yes, it does get more remote into the middle of Wales. I still love the Beacons, though! And you can seem miles from civilization.
Go to the West if you visit IMO. The Appalachian Trail bored the heck out of me after living in Oregon. Few views, smog, built-up areas...

There is a superb camp site in Brecon itself, so you can have the best of both worlds. Right on the banks of the River Honda, totally peaceful and rural and run by people who care about the environment , but the town is 10 minutes walk away.

Where in the West of USA would you recommend? Oregon has always sounded appealing to me.

 

[RickshawFan]

I wonder if there were any local appeals for people who may have walked the area on 23rd/24th. Did anyone see or hear anything out of place at all in those days before SAR arrived? Did anyone use the refuge / toilet? Even being able to say they saw nothing, rather than something, could possibly help the investigation.

Really, I think we should all go to Venasque and check out possible "accident sites" once we're done with COVID.

 

[otto]

Her partner still hopes that someone else is involved in her disappearance - in part because he doesn't think an accident is likely and rules out that she would be alive and voluntarily disappeared.

Esther Dingley’s lover denies having anything to do with her disappearance

 

[otto]

Because we have no idea what happened, so we need to keep an open mind and consider other possibilities beyond the literal facts we have knowledge of. Also people sometimes change their minds, it happens .MOO

Open mind, and doubting the honesty of the missing person, are two different things. There were pages of discussion suggesting that she did not take the Nov 22 photo at the summit. That was nothing more than doubting that she was truthful about whether she was where she said she was.

I think that we have to trust that the missing person is honest and go forward. She told people from the summit that she intended to hike to the refuge. Those are the last words from the missing person.