Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[fridaybaker]

I made the word up, lol. Without the constraints of TOS, I think I'd have made it grosser and funnier, but that's the best I can do.

Oh, brother. I totally thought it was for real. So embarrassing!

 

[RickshawFan]

Oh, brother. I totally thought it was for real. So embarrassing!

There indeed should be a real word for it. I'll bet I'm not the only one with a "fear of falling into the latrine".

Regarding ED, I'm now leaning more toward "she fell off the glacier" rather than "she fell into the privy". I hope SAR looked in both places.

 

[RickshawFan]

Okay...one more comment on food. As far as cultural differences regarding Esther’s asking for food, I am an American, living in one of the southern states. Generosity with food is part of the culture of this region. This morning I prepared a dinner to take to a neighbor whose husband is recovering from Covid. I’m sure there will be food coming to this family from our other neighbors for the next few weeks.

Giving food as a token of caring is just a part of life. Around here, you don’t send a card, you send food. If, you just receive a card, no food, it’s a social signal, the friendship might be downgraded. I grew up outside of NYC, so,I had to learn these nuances as a transplant. Lol

At Christmas, our neighbors always come round with plates of cookies, homemade cakes and candies, and we do likewise. After Christmas our neighborhood donated and packed 125 boxes of food for elderly needy outside our gates. Giving a check to a charity seems impersonal, unlike collecting and packing the food and delivering it ourselves.

I think the hang up for me is asking for something that some else might need themselves. The other issue is expecting that others will carry more, so you can carry less.

But I appreciated the comments that pointed out that Esther and some of the people she approached over the years...might think it quite pleasant. I do wonder though about the wisdom of eating unwashed food handled by strangers during a pandemic.

I wonder where Dan is now. This long wait before he can search again, must be excruciating for him.

Snipped for focus
As I understand it, these are all examples of generously providing food without being asked. For someone to ask for food, that's a whole 'nother thing in almost every culture. IMO

 

[10ofRods]

As I say, I don't think she wanted to use minutes.

Doesn't want to carry a piece of fruit, doesn't want to carry a snack, doesn't want to use minutes. This is sharper edge hiking, if you ask me. And that term came about to distinguish the "Safety Third" people from the "Sharper Edge" people (Safety Fourth?) My Girl Scout heart hurts.

I still mourn Dean Potter and friends.

On WS, I can indulge my desire to see people return from their adventures...alive. I want them all to be alive. But in the real world, it's not so simple. Especially now, when so many people are unprepared and eager to "challenge" themselves more and more.

 

[10ofRods]

Snipped for focus
As I understand it, these are all examples of generously providing food without being asked. For someone to ask for food, that's a whole 'nother thing in almost every culture. IMO

I wrote a longer post, but have not posted it.

Because...you are succinct and that cuts through. Offering food to grieving neighbors is a custom - but for the last several thousand years, wilderness hikers have known they can't depend on that...

 

[RedHaus]

I do wonder if Esther went back there for the night on 22nd. I can’t recall which news outlet mentioned the Maladeta Glacier but it was not on her planned route, and I thought at that time it was an odd place to mention. But.... maybe she saw it from Sauvegarde and changed her plan, decided to get home a day or two earlier by crashing at La Besurta again and crossing the glacier the next day. It would be the most direct route from La B to the campervan. And we know Esther loves glaciers. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if she’s found there.

I agree @Grouse and @CoverMeCagney.

On 22/11 IMO, ED could have retreated back to a familiar place. Even if ED had intended to cross the Port de Vanesque that evening as she told DC, perhaps she assessed the situation when she got to the port. And like many of us have concluded on her behalf, to ED it may have appeared too risky to get to the Refuge de Vanesque that night - ice, dark, cold, cable that requires certain equipment to attach to, unfamiliar trail, etc. If she listened to her safety instincts then yes, I think she could have just kept marching down the trail to the Cabane at La Besurta for second night. And we understand (or believe) there is no cell service at the port or the Cabane, so no call to DC.

And that of course opens up the opportunity for something to happen to her via a third party since it is at a parking lot / road or other scenarios we have discussed here.

As for the Maledetta Glacier idea, I have considered whether ED spent time there earlier on 22/11 before her summit of the col, as @RickshawFan has suggested. And I suppose if she didn't explore some if it (I would doubt she'd attempt a formal climb without crampons) on 22/11 then maybe she did on 23/11 as a follow-on to above.

And that of course opens up the opportunity that ED had a terrible accident on the glacier as Rickshawfan has described, or other scenarios we have discussed here.

Of course this is JMO... but like others here, I continue to mull over the facts to try to make sense of them in some way. It is just hard to fit all the little pieces together.

 

[otto]

It is not completely clear to me that she had an appropriate map. She might have had one from a guidebook like the little one in the dossier or the ones posted in this thread. That is not a hiking map; it's an overview sketch. A digital map on a phone or GPS won't give you a context view because the screen is too small.
I haven't seen any detail to suggest ED had made any significant plan for a loop trip. She did not even know if the Refuge was open.

My impression is that she was well prepared with maps.

"For navigation Esther was carrying a physical map of the area which she had also photographed with her phone as a backup. Her phone also had the Maps.Me app installed which Esther is proficient at using for planning and assessing route distances and timings. This app also allows geolocation and uses maps downloaded to the phone so can be fully utilised without a mobile signal. This is the same app that Esther and Dan had used to navigate for portions of their 80-day summer hike in the Alps. Esther’s phone (and head torches) are supported by the 27600 mAh battery pack capable of recharging her phone fully up to five times.
...

21st November 10:07 – Leaves the motorhome - “Now going to try hitching”
10:08 – Sends Dan photographs of her map to specify the area she will be hiking in.
...

Visibility:

The weather was excellent and from the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde the French side of the route is completely visible (see photograph below). Esther already knew the Spanish side having twice ascended that way. She would have been confident of the route, even without a map and a GPS enabled phone (both of which she had with her at the time)."
​

Dossier

 

[otto]

As I say, I don't think she wanted to use minutes.

There's nothing to support that she didn't want to use minutes. She put her phone on airplane mode when she was out of range, which started when she descended Pic de Sauvegarde and ended after she passed the Refuge de Venasque. She would have had cell service on the morning of Nov 23 if she was on her planned route.

 

[otto]

I agree @Grouse and @CoverMeCagney.

On 22/11 IMO, ED could have retreated back to a familiar place. Even if ED had intended to cross the Port de Vanesque that evening as she told DC, perhaps she assessed the situation when she got to the port. And like many of us have concluded on her behalf, to ED it may have appeared too risky to get to the Refuge de Vanesque that night - ice, dark, cold, cable that requires certain equipment to attach to, unfamiliar trail, etc. If she listened to her safety instincts then yes, I think she could have just kept marching down the trail to the Cabane at La Besurta for second night. And we understand (or believe) there is no cell service at the port or the Cabane, so no call to DC.

And that of course opens up the opportunity for something to happen to her via a third party since it is at a parking lot / road or other scenarios we have discussed here.

As for the Maledetta Glacier idea, I have considered whether ED spent time there earlier on 22/11 before her summit of the col, as @RickshawFan has suggested. And I suppose if she didn't explore some if it (I would doubt she'd attempt a formal climb without crampons) on 22/11 then maybe she did on 23/11 as a follow-on to above.

And that of course opens up the opportunity that ED had a terrible accident on the glacier as Rickshawfan has described, or other scenarios we have discussed here.

Of course this is JMO... but like others here, I continue to mull over the facts to try to make sense of them in some way. It is just hard to fit all the little pieces together.

I hadn't considered the possibility that she changed her mind and returned to the Cabana de la Besurta. It's true that anything could have happened there.

Other than other missing hikers, are there any other missing/disappeared/murdered women in a 100 mile radius area ?

 

[otto]

But, would she hike from the Hospice de Benasque to the Pic de Sauvegarde on Nov 21, hike to the Cabana de la Besurta overnight Nov 21, hike the Pic de Sauvegarde Nov 22, return to the Cabana Nov 22? She was alone there on Nov 21. If she decided to abandon the hike, why didn't she return to the Hospice de Benasque?

I suppose that's possible, but it would be dark, wouldn't it? What about the Cabana? Would it be dark when she arrived there?

As a capable and competent mountain hiker, why would she choose a hike that left her walking in the dark when the planned hike to the refuge was doable and only an hour away?

 

[RedHaus]

But, would she hike from the Hospice de Benasque to the Pic de Sauvegarde on Nov 21, hike to the Cabana de la Besurta overnight Nov 21, hike the Pic de Sauvegarde Nov 22, return to the Cabana Nov 22? She was alone there on Nov 21. If she decided to abandon the hike, why didn't she return to the Hospice de Benasque? I suppose that's possible, but it would be dark, wouldn't it? What about the Cabana? Would it be dark when she arrived there? As a capable and competent mountain hiker, why would she choose a hike that left her walking in the dark when the planned hike to the refuge was doable and only an hour away?

Good questions, @otto.

So the most fundamental question underlying all this could be why did ED deviate so markedly from her planned route that she had just sent DC that morning before she left her van on 21/11 - the start of her multi-day journey before returning to DC?

Her intended route, per DC's dossier, is the blue hash line on the map. The route was to go from the Hotel Hospital de Banasque where Ballarin dropped her off towards Port de Glere and loop clockwise to the Refuge de Vanesque.

Instead she immediately deviated from that plan without notifying DC and headed to Pic de Sauvegarde, which she summited and took lots of pics that she posted. One might think, 'OK, then ED was planning to do the planned route counter-clockwise'. But no, the night of the first day ED descends the col to Cabane La Besurta.

I drew in black her actual route (based on Ballarin's story about dropping her off at her starting point, her pics from the summit, telling DC she stayed at Cabane La Besurta). And boy, that seems really odd - and opens up the opportunity for ED to vary her route further since she was never actually on her intended route day one.



https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

Edited by me to correct hotel name

 

[RickshawFan]

I agree @Grouse and @CoverMeCagney.

On 22/11 IMO, ED could have retreated back to a familiar place. Even if ED had intended to cross the Port de Vanesque that evening as she told DC, perhaps she assessed the situation when she got to the port. And like many of us have concluded on her behalf, to ED it may have appeared too risky to get to the Refuge de Vanesque that night - ice, dark, cold, cable that requires certain equipment to attach to, unfamiliar trail, etc. If she listened to her safety instincts then yes, I think she could have just kept marching down the trail to the Cabane at La Besurta for second night. And we understand (or believe) there is no cell service at the port or the Cabane, so no call to DC.

And that of course opens up the opportunity for something to happen to her via a third party since it is at a parking lot / road or other scenarios we have discussed here.

As for the Maledetta Glacier idea, I have considered whether ED spent time there earlier on 22/11 before her summit of the col, as @RickshawFan has suggested. And I suppose if she didn't explore some if it (I would doubt she'd attempt a formal climb without crampons) on 22/11 then maybe she did on 23/11 as a follow-on to above.

And that of course opens up the opportunity that ED had a terrible accident on the glacier as Rickshawfan has described, or other scenarios we have discussed here.

Of course this is JMO... but like others here, I continue to mull over the facts to try to make sense of them in some way. It is just hard to fit all the little pieces together.

If ED hadn’t intended to go somewhere else on the 22nd, why didn’t she go down to the Refuge and start the loop on the 21st? Why did she seem to have thrown the loop idea together on the 22nd?

Reddy, I believe the cables and technically difficult piece on the way down from the Pic were above the Port, not below it. They’re on the dogleg up the Pic. There really shouldn’t have been much difficulty going down from the Port to the Refuge, but accidents do happen.

I’m thinking ED went down to the Cabane again on the 22nd, and yep, she could have met someone there. They might even have planned to attempt the glacier together.

 

[RickshawFan]

There's nothing to support that she didn't want to use minutes. She put her phone on airplane mode when she was out of range, which started when she descended Pic de Sauvegarde and ended after she passed the Refuge de Venasque. She would have had cell service on the morning of Nov 23 if she was on her planned route.

If only to save battery while out of range, she could have just turned the phone off. But she didn’t do that: she was in airplane mode.
If you are on a pay-as-you-go plan, you can only keep incoming calls from racking up minutes if you put the phone on airplane mode. If you merely turn it off, people can leave voicemails and use up your minutes.
Ergo, I think that was the reason for the airplane mode. It wasn’t about battery life or being out of range.

 

[RickshawFan]

But, would she hike from the Hospice de Benasque to the Pic de Sauvegarde on Nov 21, hike to the Cabana de la Besurta overnight Nov 21, hike the Pic de Sauvegarde Nov 22, return to the Cabana Nov 22? She was alone there on Nov 21. If she decided to abandon the hike, why didn't she return to the Hospice de Benasque?

I suppose that's possible, but it would be dark, wouldn't it? What about the Cabana? Would it be dark when she arrived there?

As a capable and competent mountain hiker, why would she choose a hike that left her walking in the dark when the planned hike to the refuge was doable and only an hour away?

ED knew the route, and I don’t think it’s that far. I believe she would have descended in darkness, if that’s what she decided to do. Recall that she was wanting to push beyond her comfort zone. She also seems unreliable at evaluating risk.

 

[RickshawFan]

But, would she hike from the Hospice de Benasque to the Pic de Sauvegarde on Nov 21, hike to the Cabana de la Besurta overnight Nov 21, hike the Pic de Sauvegarde Nov 22, return to the Cabana Nov 22? She was alone there on Nov 21. If she decided to abandon the hike, why didn't she return to the Hospice de Benasque?

I suppose that's possible, but it would be dark, wouldn't it? What about the Cabana? Would it be dark when she arrived there?

As a capable and competent mountain hiker, why would she choose a hike that left her walking in the dark when the planned hike to the refuge was doable and only an hour away?

I don’t understand why the Hospice gets into this. She was never at The Hospice as far as I can tell. On the 21st, she was getting from the Campervan, on the trail to the Pic. Then she summitted. As we know, she spent that night at the Cabane. The rest of the sequence I wrote and numbered upthread.
What I want to know...if the plan was to do the loop, why didn’t she do it on the 21st when she was in a position to do so? I imagine on the 21st, ED hadn’t formulated a plan for doing a loop. Instead, She came up with the plan on the fly on the 22nd.

 

[RedHaus]

I don’t understand why the Hospice gets into this. She was never at The Hospice as far as I can tell. On the 21st, she was getting from the Campervan, on the trail to the Pic. Then she summitted. As we know, she spent that night at the Cabane. The rest of the sequence I wrote and numbered upthread. What I want to know...if the plan was to do the loop, why didn’t she do it on the 21st when she was in a position to do so? I imagine on the 21st, ED hadn’t formulated a plan for doing a loop. Instead, She came up with the plan on the fly on the 22nd.

Well @RickshawFan, it wasn't until about 60 minutes ago I realized the significance of where ED started on 21/11, per my post just above.

Per Ballarin, he dropped ED at the Plan de l'Estany trail to pic de Sauvegarde (see article link, below). The Plan de l'Estany trail starts at the Llanos del Hospital (ski area), which is located at the at the Hotel Hospital de Banasque. It is one of two trail heads to the pic de Sauvegarde. The other is at the Cabane de la Buserta.

When I understood ED's starting point, it sunk in that she deviated from her planned route from the very start, 21/11 at ~10:30am, per this map she sent DC at 10:08am.



Ballarin Story: Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive
Source of map: https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

 

[otto]

Her intended route, per DC's dossier, is the blue hash line on the map. The route was to go from the Hotel Hospital de Banasque where Ballarin dropped her off towards Port de Glere and loop clockwise to the Refuge de Vanesque.

<respectfully snipped> and BBM

Clockwise from the Hospice de Benasque to the Port de la Glere is not an option after first hiking to the Pic de Sauvegarde. She hiked to the Pic de Sauvegarde on Nov 21 to start her hike and was headed to the Refuge de Venasque on Nov 22 according to all official information. It was a counter-clockwise trip plan recommended by a stranger on Nov 19.

There is no hiking trail from Hospice de Benasque to Pic de Sauvegarde to Port de la Glere without pretty much hiking back to the Hospice de Benasque. First two maps are from the Dossier.

She hiked from summit, last contact, to trip planned Refuge de Venasque. It is a counter clockwise route to Port de la Glere.

From the Dossier:





Enlarged image of trip plan terrain:



The daily mail indicates clockwise direction, offering few details on actual route:

 

[gribb0]

Her intended route, per DC's dossier, is the blue hash line on the map. The route was to go from the Hotel Hospital de Banasque where Ballarin dropped her off towards Port de Glere and loop clockwise to the Refuge de Vanesque.

I'm probably missing something obvious but I can't find a reference to the anti clockwise blue route in the dossier. The only reference I have seen to that is the newspaper article about the guy who gave her a lift on 21st. The dossier only seems to mention the clockwise route and that she would explore the head of the valley on 21st which fits with her staying in the caban at besurta.
I think it's possible she went back there again if the route to the refuge on the french side looked more treacherous in the poor light conditions.

 

[otto]

Well @RickshawFan, it wasn't until about 60 minutes ago I realized the significance of where ED started on 21/11, per my post just above.

Per Ballarin, he dropped ED at the Plan de l'Estany trail to pic de Sauvegarde (see article link, below). The Plan de l'Estany trail starts at the Llanos del Hospital (ski area), which is located at the at the Hotel Hospital de Banasque. It is one of two trail heads to the pic de Sauvegarde. The other is at the Cabane de la Buserta.

When I understood ED's starting point, it sunk in that she deviated from her planned route from the very start, 21/11 at ~10:30am, per this map she sent DC at 10:08am.

View attachment 282114

Ballarin Story: Missing Esther Dingley's secrets, by the last man to see her alive
Source of map: https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf

My understanding is that she hiked from Hospice de Benasque to the Pic de Sauvegarde, over night Nov 21 at Cabana de la Besurta, late start on Nov 22, hike from Cabana Besurta to Pic de Sauvegarde, again, on the way to the next refuge.

How did she deviate from her plan? Her partner was aware that she stayed at the Cabana on Nov 21 and was headed to the refuge.

I suppose the big question is whether he knew that she was going to stay overnight at the Cabana Besurta on Nov 21 or whether that was a surprise when she checked in at 3:30 PM the day she vanished.

 

[otto]

I'm probably missing something obvious but I can't find a reference to the anti clockwise blue route in the dossier. The only reference I have seen to that is the newspaper article about the guy who gave her a lift on 21st. The dossier only seems to mention the clockwise route and that she would explore the head of the valley on 21st which fits with her staying in the caban at besurta.
I think it's possible she went back there again if the route to the refuge on the french side looked more treacherous in the poor light conditions.

The dossier doesn't mention "clockwise."

https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf