Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[RickshawFan]

When it comes to moors you can't beat Yorkshire. The "3 Peaks" is a good one to try if you are fit (I thought I was, and I managed it but it was a bit tougher than I thought) - 22 Miles and app 5166 ft of ascent spread across (of course) 3 peaks. Some bogs to navigate as well so expect to get wet. The challenge is to do it in under 12 hours, then enjoy a well deserved pint of beer at the end.

You are so right! I was actually there 14 months ago, right before COVID. I wasn't able to do the 3 Peaks, but there's a fantastic lunch pub near the Viaduct...... I LOOOOVED it there.

 

[RickshawFan]

If she went over the glacier and had an accident wouldn't she be easily spotted by SAR? Or has the glacier moved? Remember doing glaciers in O level geography, and I thought they were very stable things that took thousands of years to change? Mind you I did fail it the first time.

I think she could have fallen right off the glacier. When you get going, you can't stop,, and with the extra weight from the pack... This would be a very common fall on glaciated peaks: straight down the glacier into rocky junk, massive trauma.

 

[otto]

I think she could have fallen right off the glacier. When you get going, you can't stop,, and with the extra weight from the pack... This would be a very common fall on glaciated peaks: straight down the glacier into rocky junk, massive trauma.

Which glacier?

 

[RickshawFan]

All talk has been about checking the Refuge de Venasque but I do wonder about that, if she went back to the Cabane de la Besurta. Looks like it might be accessible by a road as well if I've got the right place here, which opens up some new possibilities ...

Google Maps

Now that I see the map, maybe ED was trying to make it to the glacier and gave up part way up, turned around and went up the Pic again. That would explain why she got there so late in the afternoon. Then the Cirque de la Glère was a spur-of-the-moment back up plan, basically because it was there or she kinda remembered it from a ride a few days before. In that case, I don't think she had a map, 'cos she didn't have a fix on how far she was "dipping" into France.
COVID lockdown version of Pyrenees walk-about. "Now I'm gonna dip into the kitchen to stretch my legs." Lol.

 

[RickshawFan]

Which glacier?

Maladeta AFAIK. You can see it from the top of the Pic, as though right in front of you. ED would have seen the tracks in the snow, maybe even a person or two, and known you could get up there. DC said she had microspikes with her: the only reason you'd need those is on snow, and there wasn't any below the Pic. So, her thought might have been to go to the glacier. Indeed, she might have tried on both the 21-22nd and 23rd.

 

[otto]

Maladeta AFAIK. You can see it from the top of the Pic, as though right in front of you. ED would have seen the tracks in the snow, maybe even a person or two, and known you could get up there. DC said she had microspikes with her: the only reason you'd need those is on snow, and there wasn't any below the Pic. So, her thought might have been to go to the glacier. Indeed, she might have tried on both the 21-22nd and 23rd.

I think she would have checked in if she changed her plans so drastically.

1. Pic de Sauvegarde
2. Hospice de Benasque
3. Maladeta Glacier

 

[stmarysmead]

Unfortunately, because there is still a chance that this is a voluntary disappearance, suicide or otherwise, we cannot rely on what Esther told Dan in the last communications. That’s just a fact. We can’t know whether she was alone the night before, or where she intended to go...or even her mood. He can tell us what she told him...but we don’t know her state of mind, so we can’t know what’s true.

I’m still curious as to whether she had no cell service anywhere in that 24 plus hours between their communications.

Okay...one more comment on food. As far as cultural differences regarding Esther’s asking for food, I am an American, living in one of the southern states. Generosity with food is part of the culture of this region. This morning I prepared a dinner to take to a neighbor whose husband is recovering from Covid. I’m sure there will be food coming to this family from our other neighbors for the next few weeks.

Giving food as a token of caring is just a part of life. Around here, you don’t send a card, you send food. If, you just receive a card, no food, it’s a social signal, the friendship might be downgraded. I grew up outside of NYC, so,I had to learn these nuances as a transplant. Lol

At Christmas, our neighbors always come round with plates of cookies, homemade cakes and candies, and we do likewise. After Christmas our neighborhood donated and packed 125 boxes of food for elderly needy outside our gates. Giving a check to a charity seems impersonal, unlike collecting and packing the food and delivering it ourselves.

I think the hang up for me is asking for something that some else might need themselves. The other issue is expecting that others will carry more, so you can carry less.

But I appreciated the comments that pointed out that Esther and some of the people she approached over the years...might think it quite pleasant. I do wonder though about the wisdom of eating unwashed food handled by strangers during a pandemic.

I wonder where Dan is now. This long wait before he can search again, must be excruciating for him.

 

[Grouse]

Open mind, and doubting the honesty of the missing person, are two different things. There were pages of discussion suggesting that she did not take the Nov 22 photo at the summit. That was nothing more than doubting that she was truthful about whether she was where she said she was.

I think that we have to trust that the missing person is honest and go forward. She told people from the summit that she intended to hike to the refuge. Those are the last words from the missing person.

It's not doubting the honesty of a person to consider that they may have changed their mind, or that circumstances forced them to. Really, it's not.

 

[Grouse]

You are so right! I was actually there 14 months ago, right before COVID. I wasn't able to do the 3 Peaks, but there's a fantastic lunch pub near the Viaduct...... I LOOOOVED it there.

The Station Inn! I have had many a drunken evening in that establishment! We used to be regulars there for the Saturday night music sessions.

 

[otto]

It's not doubting the honesty of a person to consider that they may have changed their mind, or that circumstances forced them to. Really, it's not.

I agree that she may have changed her mind, but why didn't she check in on Nov 23?

 

[stmarysmead]

It's not doubting the honesty of a person to consider that they may have changed their mind, or that circumstances forced them to. Really, it's not.

If a person is depressed and feeling totally desperate and out of options, it’s not a character flaw that they may not want others to know their state of mind, or what options they are considering. They may “carry on” to spare those they love, while they try to consider how to deal with their pain.

That’s not lying...that’s just trying to survive a bit longer with your pain. Sometimes it’s hard to deal with the emotions or advice or demands of others when you are holding on by a thread. We do know Esther was very depressed right before she left.

We may have been truly happy as she said...or just buying time.

Too 0ften families of suicide victims report they had no idea how their loved one was suffering.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think she would have checked in if she changed her plans so drastically.

1. Pic de Sauvegarde
2. Hospice de Benasque
3. Maladeta Glacier

View attachment 282095

1. Make the Maladeta glacier ascent from the Cabane. From the Pic, ED saw the route on the 21st heading up the glacier. She has her microspikes with her, so she thinks she can handle it (actually, it would take crampons AFAIK), especially since the conditions are thaw-freeze that week in that area, and certainly up on that glacier. Very slick.
2. On the 22nd am she heads up to the glacier from the Cabane.
3. It doesn't work out for some reason, so she gives up and heads back up the Pic. That's why she gets there so late in the day.
4. On top of the Pic in the afternoon of the 22nd, she's formulating a new plan. She doesn't really know what she's doing, and she doesn't have a proper map 'cos she wasn't planning to do this until right this minute, and chooses Cirque de la Glère from the dim recesses of her memory. It's so dim, that she doesn't spell it correctly although her French is excellent, and Glère would always be la and not le.
5a. ED is now making a poorly planned trip on some loop she's barely heard of and she has an accident on the way down to the Refuge. At any rate, she never makes it to the Refuge.
5b1. Alternatively, she decides to have another go at the glacier, because it's just so enticing from the top of the Pic, and she can see other people heading up there, almost right in front of her eyes. So she heads that way. Maybe she spends another night at the Cabane. Or else she goes on the backside of the Pic de la Mine (I think that's where the trail goes.)
5b2 She gets up on the morning of the 23rd, and heads up the trail to the Maladeta glacier. She starts onto the glacier. Unfortunately, she's in microspikes, though the conditions require crampons. Or else she trips. At any rate, she tumbles down down down the glacier and into the rocks below. Major head and internal organ trauma. Fatal.
5b3 Wasn't SAR looking for ED up towards the glacier? This would explain why.

 

[Grouse]

I do wonder though about the wisdom of eating unwashed food handled by strangers during a pandemic.

Glad you raised that. I made exactly that point earlier. While it initially might seem trivial I think it's very significant in gauging levels of risk aversion and levels of responsibility. Like ED spending the night in a cabane in front of the fire with the other female hiker on 13th Nov, their sleeping bags side by side in one of the photos. If one of them had Covid the other one would have almost certainly caught it that night. While I have defended her on many occasions on this thread, this is one aspect that really annoys me .

 

[RickshawFan]

I agree that she may have changed her mind, but why didn't she check in on Nov 23?

Try this: Her phone was on airplane mode because she was out of minutes; she didn't want to pay for incoming minutes.
If you have a "pay as you go phone", if someone calls you or leaves a message, it costs you minutes. You have to pay for them. Maybe she only had so many minutes left in her "pay as you go" phone card and wasn't going to buy any more.
So maybe there wasn't a reception problem or a re-charging problem, though these might have been issues. She was simply low on minutes and couldn't afford an incoming call. Thus "airplane mode".

 

[otto]

1. Make the Maladeta glacier ascent from the Cabane. From the Pic, ED saw the route on the 21st heading up the glacier. She has her microspikes with her, so she thinks she can handle it (actually, it would take crampons AFAIK).
2. On the 22nd am she heads up to the glacier from the Cabane.
3. It doesn't work out for some reason, so she gives up and heads back up the Pic. That's why she gets there so late in the day.
4. On top of the Pic in the afternoon of the 22nd, she's formulating a new plan. She doesn't really know what she's doing, and she doesn't have a proper map 'cos she wasn't planning to do this until right this minute, and chooses Cirque de la Glère from the dim recesses of her memory. It's so dim, that she doesn't spell it correctly although her French is excellent, and Glère would always be la and not le.
5a. ED is now making a poorly planned trip on some loop she's barely heard of and she has an accident on the way down to the Refuge. At any rate, she never makes it to the Refuge.
5b1. Alternatively, she decides to have another go at the glacier, because it's just so enticing from the top of the Pic, and she can see other people heading up there, almost right in front of her eyes. So she heads that way. Maybe she spends another night at the Cabane. Or else she goes on the backside of the Pic de la Mine (I think that's where the trail goes.)
5b2 She gets up on the morning of the 23rd, and heads up the trail to the Maladeta glacier. She starts onto the glacier. Unfortunately, she's in microspikes, though the conditions require crampons. Or else she trips. At any rate, she tumbles down down down the glacier and into the rocks below. Major head and internal organ trauma. Fatal.
5b3 Wasn't SAR looking for ED up towards the glacier? This would explain why.

Per the dossier, she was well equipped with digital and physical maps. If she was going to cross the valley and hike a completely different mountain, she would have checked in.

 

[RickshawFan]

The Station Inn! I have had many a drunken evening in that establishment! We used to be regulars there for the Saturday night music sessions.

Haha! Yes, that pub. We were the only ones there, but it was definitely a party place. I had a catastrophic trip from the cobbles near the steps all the way out into the middle of the road, then slid along the pavement face down with my head bouncing up and down. I quite flew through the air. Luckily there was no car coming along. Gosh, what a mess.
I wish I could have stayed longer in that area: I'll have to go back.

 

[otto]

Try this: Her phone was on airplane mode because she was out of minutes; she didn't want to pay for incoming minutes.
If you have a "pay as you go phone", if someone calls you or leaves a message, it costs you minutes. You have to pay for them. Maybe she only had so many minutes left in her "pay as you go" phone card and wasn't going to buy any more.
So maybe there wasn't a reception problem or a re-charging problem, though these might have been issues. She was simply low on minutes and couldn't afford an incoming call. Thus "airplane mode".

Her partner has not mentioned that she had cell phone or service troubles during their last conversation, so it's likely she could have sent a message on the morning of Nov 23 if that was an issue.

 

[RickshawFan]

Per the dossier, she was well equipped with digital and physical maps. If she was going to cross the valley and hike a completely different mountain, she would have checked in.

It is not completely clear to me that she had an appropriate map. She might have had one from a guidebook like the little one in the dossier or the ones posted in this thread. That is not a hiking map; it's an overview sketch. A digital map on a phone or GPS won't give you a context view because the screen is too small.
I haven't seen any detail to suggest ED had made any significant plan for a loop trip. She did not even know if the Refuge was open.

 

[RickshawFan]

Her partner has not mentioned that she had cell phone or service troubles during their last conversation, so it's likely she could have sent a message on the morning of Nov 23 if that was an issue.

As I say, I don't think she wanted to use minutes.

 

[Grouse]

Haha! Yes, that pub. We were the only ones there, but it was definitely a party place. I had a catastrophic trip from the cobbles near the steps all the way out into the middle of the road, then slid along the pavement face down with my head bouncing up and down. I quite flew through the air. Luckily there was no car coming along. Gosh, what a mess.
I wish I could have stayed longer in that area: I'll have to go back.

Oh no! That's the kind of exit you make at midnight on a Saturday night, not after having lunch. Not been there for a few years now, and it's over 10 years since the music nights, don't know if that's still a thing (well it won't be now anyway with lockdown).