State rests rebuttal case- thread #163

[RR0004]

Apologies for correcting you but the autopsy report says no such thing, and the entire concept imo is merely a defense red herring. To quote from the autopsy report itself, which does not use the word upward or discuss what angle a knife may have entered the body, anywhere in the report:

"Examination of the torso reveals the following sharp force injuries:

● A 1 inch horizontal stab wound of the upper paramidline left chest, which terminates at the level of the sternum
● A 1 1/2 inch oblique stab wound of the paramidline right chest, with penetration / perforation of the costochondral junction near the sternum at the level of the 3rd and 4th right ribs; the wound extends to a maximal depth of approximately 3 1/2 inches with penetration of the superior vena cava near the base of the heart, with a small amount of surrounding hemorrhagic in the mediastinal soft tissues and the pericardial sac of the heart; a portion of the costochondral cartilage encompassing the stab wound is excised and retained at the FSC for potential further analysis.
● A deep transverse 2 inch incised wound across the lower right chest, belowo the nipple, with penetration of the lower portion of the right pectoralis muscle.
● A 1 3/4 inch obliique stab wound of the left upper absominal quadrant, with a near-tangential subcutaneous adipose tissue wound track (5 3/4 inches long), terminating in adipose tissue of the right lower abdominal quadrant; the abdominal cavity is not penetrated.
● Two (2) very shallow parallel oblique wounds of the anterior right shoulder, measuring up to 1 3/4 inch."

And to quote from JW's cross-examination of Dr. Horn:

2:24:00 ff in the video below:

JW asks can't you tell the direction of the stab wound?
Dr. Horn says "It's pretty much straight into his chest."

JW asks, "Doesn't it have an upward trajectory?"

Dr. Horn responds. "If it is it is very slight."

In fact, the prosecution's theory is that she stabbed him while he was seated. [I concur; it's no accident she got him into a 'sitting duck' position, imo.] JM asks Dr. Horn that very question at 1:11, whether TA could still get up from a seated position after being stabbed and attempt to defend himself. Dr. Horn answers in the affirmative. JM's exchange with Dr. Horn regarding that stab wound begins around the 1:06 mark and lasts for 4-5 minutes.

Jodi Arias Trial Day 3 (Full) - YouTube

But, I could have sworn he said the that it was slanted upwards when he testified again yesterday. (???)

 

[BetsyB]

Wouldn't it be nice if they could harvest her organs before putting her to death? Giving someone who is good and kind a much needed extension of life? Those organs could do a lot of good.

This may be an option, by the time an execution occurs. There is a movement to permit organ donation (including living donation of kidneys) by prisoners. (The methods used for execution by lethal injection do NOT preclude organ donation; cadaver donation is still possible post-execution.)

There are arguments against donations by inmates--the most valid of which is the higher HIV and hepatitis rates among inmates. However, for death row inmates, who are isolated from gen pop, this is a FAR lesser risk---probably than that even of the non-incarcerated population. And inmates who freely choose to donate can be effectively tested and educated. Really, the ability to make the very positive choice to donate one's organs can be very meaningful to an inmate.

Maricopa County is actually VERY progressive when it comes to the donation movement among inmates. It's a trend that will hopefully catch on and spread.

Here's one interesting op ed piece, written by a prisoner, on the topic:

http://tinyurl.com/d25rvdk

ETA: The "inherited memory" theory of organ transplantation has been thoroughly debunked. Though it makes great movies, it's got no basis in fact.

<----sister of liver recipient
<----ORGAN DONOR!! Take 'em all---plus my skin and corneas---I won't need 'em

 

[Nhic]

:seeya:

Yup, I was wrong. I got confused with sequestered jurors.

Is it possible the jurors in this case could be sequestered during deliberations? It would save time. :floorlaugh:

Thanks for the link. Interesting theory. As a parent with a fair degree of medical knowledge, I think I would err on the side of a child who desperately needed a transplant. If we were to judge all of the people who do donate their organs, there would be no transplants. Again, JMV

If the recipient knew who the donor was, that could make the decision very difficult. That's probably why donor names are confidential. There are many, many people who donate their organs and were just regular folks. I can't imagine a state harvesting organs from a murderer who has just had a lethal injection anyway.

 

[katiedid2]

Travis to me was like a diamond in the rough.

Then he met Jodi. She chipped away at him, and brought out the worst in him.

He knew that and was trying to end the toxicity of the their relationship many times over. She became obesessed and in the end lost her latch to Travis.

Don't worry Travis.... you have plenty of people who are watching over you and she will pay with what she did to your beautiful soul.

Juan's got this one, and mark my words, Jodi will be sentenced to death.

eace: :angel:

Couldn't have said it better:seeya:

 

[lil_buddy]

In 1993, a psychologist Susan E. Smith, in a paper &#8211; which was first presented at a false memory syndrome Conference &#8211; relating to the idea of "Survivor Psychology", stated that:

"body memories are thought to literally be emotional, kinesthetic, or chemical recordings stored at the cellular level and retrievable by returning to or recreating the chemical, emotional, or kinesthetic conditions under which the memory recordings are filed. She wrote in the abstract of the paper that "one of the most commonly used theories to support the ideology of repressed memories or incest and sexual abuse amnesia is body memories." [1]

Smith makes her position clear when she goes on to say:

"The belief in these pseudoscientific concepts appears to be related to scientific illiteracy, gullibility, and a lack of critical thinking skills and reasoning abilities in both the mental health community and in society at large"

Body memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rose222]

Mostly that it's macabre and suggests a permisiveness toward loss of human life that has more in common with the attitude of a certain defendant in AZ than what I'd expect to find here. But, secondarily, for organ donation programs to survive it is imperative that such donations be uncoerced in anyway. The idea of a state executing people and then happily harvesting their organs immediately thereafter has profound ethical implications.

It sure does...

 

[Nhic]

Just a heads up - that is no scientific journal article; not even written by a scientist.

Cute idea for a horror movie, tho.

I've an open mind about those sorts of things. There have been many accounts of recipients taking on part of the personality/habits of the donor after surgery. Since it's impossible to prove otherwise, I prefer to err on the side of caution. :facepalm:

 

[katiedid2]

Lol buddy hilarious:floorlaugh:

 

[Nhic]

In 1993, a psychologist Susan E. Smith, in a paper &#8211; which was first presented at a false memory syndrome Conference &#8211; relating to the idea of "Survivor Psychology", stated that:

"body memories are thought to literally be emotional, kinesthetic, or chemical recordings stored at the cellular level and retrievable by returning to or recreating the chemical, emotional, or kinesthetic conditions under which the memory recordings are filed. She wrote in the abstract of the paper that "one of the most commonly used theories to support the ideology of repressed memories or incest and sexual abuse amnesia is body memories." [1]

Smith makes her position clear when she goes on to say:

"The belief in these pseudoscientific concepts appears to be related to scientific illiteracy, gullibility, and a lack of critical thinking skills and reasoning abilities in both the mental health community and in society at large"

Body memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, and RS, psychologist, testified JA has PTSD, was in a fog after slaughtering TA, etc. :floorlaugh:

Just sayin....

 

[Schuby]

In 1993, a psychologist Susan E. Smith, in a paper – which was first presented at a false memory syndrome Conference – relating to the idea of "Survivor Psychology", stated that:

"body memories are thought to literally be emotional, kinesthetic, or chemical recordings stored at the cellular level and retrievable by returning to or recreating the chemical, emotional, or kinesthetic conditions under which the memory recordings are filed. She wrote in the abstract of the paper that "one of the most commonly used theories to support the ideology of repressed memories or incest and sexual abuse amnesia is body memories." [1]

Smith makes her position clear when she goes on to say:

"The belief in these pseudoscientific concepts appears to be related to scientific illiteracy, gullibility, and a lack of critical thinking skills and reasoning abilities in both the mental health community and in society at large"

Body memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That actually was a horror movie, bad one, in the 90s. Some guy gets a hand transplant from a mass murderer and suddenly he's unable to control the hands' impulse to kill. I think it was called Idle Hands or something like that, lol.

 

[popsicle]

i read recently that a state has just started harvesting organs from death row inmates,personally i think it is a great idea there are a shortage of organs and these people no longer have a need for them.

Unfortunately the majority were drug users or have a disease. jmo

 

[katiedid2]

Jodi Arias art is being listed on eBay again...

The piece I'm looking at was sold by Carlton Arias via PayPal to the Ebay seller who now has it listed on the site.

Her brother! I remember his name because she accused travis of making fun of Carl's name. He was named Carlton after his grandfather. I guess no matter how evil and wretched we think she is, her family loves her and remain loyal and possibly! Believe her twisted story.

 

[GaMom13]

http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/news/lo...ins-colorado-city/nppJRis_mE262iOR9-ah_Q.cspx

Hi...re Hailey Dunn, here's a link from Lubbock. So sad

So very sad. I started watching NG when I retired in 2007 and it is heart wrenching how many children have been lost since that date.

 

[NanKelley]

Jodi Arias art is being listed on eBay again...

The piece I'm looking at was sold by Carlton Arias via PayPal to the Ebay seller who now has it listed on the site.

I just looked and this was "sold" back in early February for $1525.00. Don't think she's gonna make a huge profit. Probably one of JA's supporters - never actually bought it. Moo

 

[The Village Idiot]

I just found this vid -- it was only posted just a couple days ago. Team Travis. Only 92 views, so all WS watch this vid, and share with all TA supporters

travis alexander (TEAM TRAVIS) - YouTube



Share via social media....Really nice Vid!!

Pass it around, please In Memory Of Travis!!

 

[JustJudy]

I wonder if Nurmi was right about the JA jury. I wonder if they do watch tv coverage of it. I know they're not supposed to, and I have no reason to suspect that they are violating the judges order, but I still wonder. I guess I mainly wonder because I think it would be almost impossible to resist if it were me. Which is why I could never be on a jury like this

No, KT, I don't think it would be impossible for u to resist..am hoping others will give their experiences....before being chosen, you are asked many questions, some specifically about whether or not you are able to follow the rules & be impartial in order to ensure a fair trial, etc.

And several people respectfully were excluded, because their life experiences or whatever rendered them unsure of themselves. After being chosen, there is an aura of duty, which permeates each member. (Am tapping this out, in a darkened Carrabba's over lentil soup & sangria...apologies for the lack of pithy insights. ......

 

[katiedid2]

Dear Fellow Sleuthers, I know this is OT but I feel it's important to share on all the boards so everyone that has supported this beautiful family knows how much they are appreciated.

Status Update
By Justice for Travis Alexander
Message from Tanisha Sorenson
To All the Supporters of Travis and our Family,
As the time is now near to verdict time our family needs your support more than ever now. You all have been true examples of Christ, very giving , caring, kind hearted, and loving. The support of all of you has been heartfelt and has brought many smiles to our families faces during these hard times. We will be forever grateful !
I know that the most important thing we can all continue doing is getting down on our knees and praying to the Lord that we will have Justice for Travis here on this earth. I know there will be Justice in the life to come in the eternities but I feel that the Lord will also have his hand in bringing Justice here on earth. Our Heavenly father hears our prayers and he will answer them.
The jury will get this case on Monday the 6th and that's why I have a special request from all of you to join us as we pray and fast for the Jury, For our Family, For Travis, and For the Ultimate Justice in this case. My family and I will be fasting and praying on Sunday May 5th. I know from my own personal experience that the Lord has answered my prayers after I fasted, and that's why I know if we all do it on Sunday the 5th , he will see that we all have faith in him and that Justice is what we want and I feel he will deliver as he touches the hearts of the Jurors.
We have all been brought together thru this horrible tragedy, we have all been touched by Travis and his inspiration as he was alive, by the things he did while he was alive, and by the people he helped and served while he was alive, and because of the Death of this amazing man , we all share the love, the loss, the hope, the sorrow, the life, the faith, the gratitude, the strength, the empathy, and the unity, together. May the Lord continued to bless all of you for all the strength and love you have shown our family.
Don't be sad for Travis for he is happy, in a wonderful place doing the Lords work, he continues to teach, learn, serve, laugh, make others laugh, sing, and rejoice in happiness. He is with our Savior Jesus Christ, he is with us in our hearts and minds , and he will be with us as we get the Verdict of Guilty of first degree Murder and have Justice for him! Our family loves you all!! Our Heavenly Father loves you, and Travis loves you!!
Justice4Travis!!!

I will fast the day the jury gets the verdict and will spend that day praying for justice. My church has a prayer chain. I will make sure they pray that day until verdict is read.
Thank you for sharing

 

[BetsyB]

Totally agree! There is no part of JA worth anything for anyone.

From that link I posted earlier:

"The most stunning example of cellular memory was found in an eight year old girl who received the heart of a ten year old girl. The recipient was plagued after surgery with vivid nightmares about an attacker and a girl being murdered. After being brought to a psychiatrist her nightmares proved to be so vivid and real that the psychiatrist believed them to be genuine memories. As it turns out the ten year old whose heart she had just received was murdered and due to the recipients violent reoccurring dreams she was able to describe the events of that horrible encounter and the murderer so well that police soon apprehended, arrested, and convicted the killer."





If JA's organs are ever harvested, maybe the unlucky recipient(s) will then know the exact timeline of events when she slaughtered TA.:scared:

These anecdotal tales have NO basis in fact/science. None.

Furthermore, the privacy of donors is maintained. It is very unusual for recipients to learn the identity of their donors. The most we've learned of my brother's donor was that he'd been in a motorcycle accident on the Fourth of July weekend.

The process of transplant is very traumatic--the procedures themselves can be very grueling. The antirejection drugs include prednisone, which can contribute to mood changes (especially at first, until the dose is titrated to the smallest possible to prevent rejection). Experiencing nightmares after a long, scary wait (during which death often looms) a huge surgery (often with follow-up revision procedures to repair the abdominal wall, etc), a grueling recovery, and hormonal upset due to potent drugs is ....well, attributable to the process itself. It's not due to "inherited memory" carried in the donor's cells. (The cells themselves grow, reproduce, and die; eventually, the donor organ no longer has ANY cells that were ever in the donor, anyway.)

 

[kaRN]

If someone is killed using lethal injection, are their organs good for anything?

Yes. The drug they use is also used in surgery. If the donor is healthy, their organs can be used.

I saw this crazy documentary about the DP in China. They have mobile buses that come to the prison and the inmate is brought out to the bus to be injected. Immediately after death they harvest the organs and go on to the next prison.

 

[Meemaw12]

Apologies for correcting you but the autopsy report says no such thing, and the entire concept imo is merely a defense red herring. To quote from the autopsy report itself, which does not use the word upward or discuss what angle a knife may have entered the body, anywhere in the report:

"Examination of the torso reveals the following sharp force injuries:

A 1 inch horizontal stab wound of the upper paramidline left chest, which terminates at the level of the sternum
A 1 1/2 inch oblique stab wound of the paramidline right chest, with penetration / perforation of the costochondral junction near the sternum at the level of the 3rd and 4th right ribs; the wound extends to a maximal depth of approximately 3 1/2 inches with penetration of the superior vena cava near the base of the heart, with a small amount of surrounding hemorrhagic in the mediastinal soft tissues and the pericardial sac of the heart; a portion of the costochondral cartilage encompassing the stab wound is excised and retained at the FSC for potential further analysis.
A deep transverse 2 inch incised wound across the lower right chest, belowo the nipple, with penetration of the lower portion of the right pectoralis muscle.
A 1 3/4 inch obliique stab wound of the left upper absominal quadrant, with a near-tangential subcutaneous adipose tissue wound track (5 3/4 inches long), terminating in adipose tissue of the right lower abdominal quadrant; the abdominal cavity is not penetrated.
Two (2) very shallow parallel oblique wounds of the anterior right shoulder, measuring up to 1 3/4 inch."

And to quote from JW's cross-examination of Dr. Horn:

2:24:00 ff in the video below:

JW asks can't you tell the direction of the stab wound?
Dr. Horn says "It's pretty much straight into his chest."

JW asks, "Doesn't it have an upward trajectory?"

Dr. Horn responds. "If it is it is very slight."

In fact, the prosecution's theory is that she stabbed him while he was seated. [I concur; it's no accident she got him into a 'sitting duck' position, imo.] JM asks Dr. Horn that very question at 1:11, whether TA could still get up from a seated position after being stabbed and attempt to defend himself. Dr. Horn answers in the affirmative. JM's exchange with Dr. Horn regarding that stab wound begins around the 1:06 mark and lasts for 4-5 minutes.

Jodi Arias Trial Day 3 (Full) - YouTube

TA left this blood streak on his way out of the shower. It could not have reached that point in back of his robe from anywhere in the bathroom itself.

As Dr. Horn testified, if that wound to the superior vena cava nicked the lung, it would cause coughing up of blood. Which we see evidence of on the sink. It is consistent with the first stab occurring in the shower.

There is also another drip of blood lower down the wal, just saw it in the GMA video (about juror 8) around 2:00-2:30
Posted up thread