State rests rebuttal case- thread #164

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ITA~ In my childhood there was some trauma involving a gun. Cut to more than 30 yrs later, Christmas Eve - my nephew, who had just returned from his third tour in Iraq (thank you for your service, all service people and their families!) went out to his car and brought in a gun. I KNEW it was unloaded, I KNEW he had no ammo, I KNEW he had no intent other than to show his dad his new gun which was like the one he used in Iraq - and none of that mattered. I got all hot, sweaty, my chest felt like an elephant was on it, and I began to shake (for real, not JA shaking). I left the room as I didn't want anyone to notice my reaction. Another nephew then came into the kitchen, where I was, and saw something was wrong. He sat with me. My nephew who brought the gun felt horrible when he realized what happened, but it wasn't his fault. It was the fault of someone a long time ago.
All this to say, there is NO WAY that JA has PTSD from the killing and then would EVER be comfortable near a gun or especially buy one herself. I have NEVER had a gun in my home. My children weren't even allowed play guns, bb guns, etc. I just can't handle being around them.

Sorry to hear that :( shooting is a passion of mine.

Since I missed all of last week, and videos I will looking at is this one and I will try to study it to see if Juan specifically states which camera phone . I am surprised while they were on the stand he did not differentiate whether it was the same phone or a different phone. the previous testimony by Jodi or Gus was that insurance was used after the previous one was lost. But I don't remember any evidence to any of that coming up in the trial anytime?

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I could be completely wrong, I'll watch it again!

Starting about 1:57 on this video, she is talking about leaving her sibling's house after getting the car on the second. She says she drove out, stopped again and slept. JM asks if he asked her if she slept. (LOL) The question was her trip down to Monterrey and what time.

Her answer: It was very, very late. I think it was even the 3rd in the morning because we had stopped in Santa Cruz first.

JM doesn't get fazed by this. He asks again about the time.

Her answer: Yeah, I think it was past midnight by the time we got to Monterrey.

He asks if she met anyone in Santa Cruz. She says she met MM and his roommate. (Hence the we???)

I'm confused now, because JM starts to ask her about spending the night with MM and when she got up.

From the sound of this, and JM not being fazed by her "we" statements, it seems she met MM in Santa Cruz and they (possibly with the roommate?) drove down to Monterrey, where they spent the night after getting in late. But I'm bothered by who the first "we" is that "stopped in Santa Cruz."

At about 2 hours into the video the discussion turns to Darryl.

Where did MM live at that time?

I just watched the same thing, and I also heard 'we' several times before she got to MM's house.

The same thing happens on my iPad. Does it not happen on a PC? That is one reason I don't reply as often as I might want. :seeya:

Hence my multi-quote madness!!!!

Oh, thanks!:seeya:

That's insanely close to Pasadena, CA, but if his calendar is right, he was in Santa Cruz when she was in Pasadena, right? Wonder if they could have met up in Santa Cruz.

His calendar says out of town june 2nd. It says some santa cruz engagement at 730pm on 3rd. We have no calls to him though.

It also shows him OUT OF TOWN for most of the day on the 4th!!!!
 
From , timeline according to court file


Everyone kept bailing, Jodi represented herself to do the pedophile letters nonsense, when that failed, she requested the lawyers represent her again. Nurmi tried , several times to be removed from the case. I guess no one wanted to touch that perjury with a ten foot pole, even Nurmi. You just can't make this stuff up!!!

http://t.co/eLdZNsuVgo

(Aug 18, 2009 Nurmi makes 1st appearance)

On 8/18/09 Victoria E Washington and Kirk Nurmi appear as counsel along with Maria Schaffer and Gregory Parzych at an evidentiary hearing. Of interest, this hearing was to determine if there is probable cause to add an Aggravating Factor that will make this a death penalty case. This is where the prosecution presents to the Court that the victim was shot first, then repeatedly stabbed, then stabbed in the heart and finally had throat slit. Detective Flores represents to the court that he spoke with the Medical Examiner Dr. Horne and that this is the sequence of events Dr. Horne gave him.

On 8/18/09 Victoria E Washington (secondary) and Kirk Nurmi (primary) are assigned as new defense counsel.

On 11/3/09 new trial date of 8/16/2010 is set. This is per the request of defense counsel who previously stated they need more time to prepare.

On 6/18/10 the trial date was reset to 8/2/2011.

On 2/25/11 Kirk Nurmi announced to the Court that he is leaving the Public Defender’s Office.

On 3/8/2011 a hearing is held regarding Kirk Nurmi withdrawing as defense consel. Very interesting minutes. Defendant strenuously objected to new counsel and possibility of pushing back trial date. The Court noted that “Once a case is set for trial, counsel may not withdraw except upon motion providing the name and address of another attorney, along with a statement from that attorney stating that he or she has been advised of the trial date and will be prepared for trial. Rule 6.3(c). No such motion or statement has been filed in this case. “ Mr. Nurmi was ordered to continue as the lead defense counsel at the standard public defender hourly rate paid to the primary defense counsel.

On 3/9/2011 Mr. Nurmi submitted a formal motion to withdraw and as hearing on the motion was set for 3/21/2011.

On 3/21/2011 Mr. Nurmi’s motion to withdraw as counsel is denied. At this hearing the State’s request to change the trial date due to a scheduling conflict with State Attorney Juan M Martinez was also denied.

On 3/22/2011 another hearing is held with a second motion to withdraw by Mr. Nurmi. After the hearing on the previous day the Public Defender Office notified Mr. Nurmi that they were withdrawing the mitigation specialist, investigator, and paralegal because the Public Defender Office does not want Mr. Nurmi directing staff when he is no longer an employee. The Court ordered that Mr. Nurmi motion was denied and he was required to remain as the primary counsel and that the Public Defender Office must immediately reassign the personnel to the case.

On 4/4/2011 Mr. Nurmi stated his objection to remaining on the case during a status hearing as he has left the Public Defender Office to go into private practice. The Court found that Mr. Nurmi has an ethical obligation to continue representing the defendant but would begin receiving a reasonable hourly rate of $225.00 as compensation to avoid any financial interests that would place Mr. Nurmi in conflict with his client.

On 8/8/2011 defendant has a hearing on an oral motion she submitted to represent herself. At the end of the hearing this motion is granted but Kirk Nurmi and Victoria Washington are to remain as advisory counsel, with Victoria Washington as primary. The evidentiary hearing on the purported letters from Travis Alexander alleging he is a pedophile is held with Ms. Arias as defense counsel.

On 8/9/2011 during a normal status conference both Victoria Washington and Kirk Nurmi address the Court as to the roles and responsibility of advisory counsel, and the primary counsel (which is now the defendant). The Court agrees and addresses this with Ms. Arias and asks her if she wishes to remain as her own counsel. She states she will continue as primary counsel.

On 8/15/2011 the evidentiary hearing regarding the “pedophile” letters is completed. The Court orders that the letters are precluded and the defense withdraws them. At the end of this hearing Ms. Arias submits an oral request to withdraw as her own counsel and requests that Mr. Nurmi and Victoria Washington be reinstated as defense counsel. The Court orders Kirk Nurmi and Victoria Washington to represent the defendant in all further proceedings.

On 9/9/2011 the trial date is reset to 2/21/2012 due to the primary defense witness needing to withdraw because of a health issue. A new witness will need to be retained and allowed time to prepare for the trial.
On 12/22/2011 a hearing was held on a motion from the Public Defender Office to withdraw from this case due to a conflict of interest with Victoria Washington. Motion was allowed but the Public Defender Office will appoint a new second counsel, investigator, mitigation specialist, and paralegal. Victoria Washington is released as counsel.

On 1/3/2012 a hearing was held on a motion to continue trial due to assignment of new counsel. New secondary counsel Jennifer L Willmott was assigned by the Public Defender Office. Defendant agreed and waived the applicable time limit. Trial date was changed to 10/17/2012.

BBM

Who was 'the primary defense witness' before they got sick? And who was the replacement? Is that why ALV was moved from mitigation to guilt phase?
 
Here are the HLN travel and call maps. I finally got them again. Oh, I had Wendy's.

Interesting. I didn't quote the diagrams, but if Arias has a case of Water from (Costco?) in the trunk of her car - why would she buy a bottle of water from McDonalds on June 2, 2008 at 7:32? Money being an issue and all...
 
And/or reporting the Helio phone as stolen in May 2008, yet taking a picture with the stolen phone on June 3, 2008 - and her testimony stating May 2008 was the last time she saw it. IIRC
She wrote in her journal that she got a replacement phone when she lost her Helio, we just don't know if it was exactly the same or different. I don't believe that this was ever clarified in trial? Does anyone remember anything about this?
 
Geffner and LaViolette have colluded in the past.
LaViolette’s website - “Researchers Agree Woman May Hit Their Male Partner but InFrequently Batter Them- Pattern of Coercion is seldom Present in Femail Agression.”

see link: http://alycelaviolette.com/Women-Who-Hit-Their-Male-Partners.htm.

In this article, she cites ROBERT GEFFNER.

Also, they both attended this conference in 2012:
http://www.cvent.com/events/17th-international-conference-on-violence-abuse-and-trauma-the-2012-national-summit-to-end-interpers/custom-18-b1da4c68dd834500b75c020e5be82ba8.aspx
 
Were those letters ever formerly proven to be fraudulent, was it ever stated anywhere????

It really irks me that the jury doesn't know about this.

Combined with Nurmi's private practice "specialty," and it's all reprehensible!!!

From , timeline according to court file


Everyone kept bailing, Jodi represented herself to do the pedophile letters nonsense, when that failed, she requested the lawyers represent her again. Nurmi tried , several times to be removed from the case. I guess no one wanted to touch that perjury with a ten foot pole, even Nurmi. You just can't make this stuff up!!!

http://t.co/eLdZNsuVgo

(Aug 18, 2009 Nurmi makes 1st appearance)

On 8/18/09 Victoria E Washington and Kirk Nurmi appear as counsel along with Maria Schaffer and Gregory Parzych at an evidentiary hearing. Of interest, this hearing was to determine if there is probable cause to add an Aggravating Factor that will make this a death penalty case. This is where the prosecution presents to the Court that the victim was shot first, then repeatedly stabbed, then stabbed in the heart and finally had throat slit. Detective Flores represents to the court that he spoke with the Medical Examiner Dr. Horne and that this is the sequence of events Dr. Horne gave him.

On 8/18/09 Victoria E Washington (secondary) and Kirk Nurmi (primary) are assigned as new defense counsel.

On 11/3/09 new trial date of 8/16/2010 is set. This is per the request of defense counsel who previously stated they need more time to prepare.

On 6/18/10 the trial date was reset to 8/2/2011.

On 2/25/11 Kirk Nurmi announced to the Court that he is leaving the Public Defender’s Office.

On 3/8/2011 a hearing is held regarding Kirk Nurmi withdrawing as defense consel. Very interesting minutes. Defendant strenuously objected to new counsel and possibility of pushing back trial date. The Court noted that “Once a case is set for trial, counsel may not withdraw except upon motion providing the name and address of another attorney, along with a statement from that attorney stating that he or she has been advised of the trial date and will be prepared for trial. Rule 6.3(c). No such motion or statement has been filed in this case. “ Mr. Nurmi was ordered to continue as the lead defense counsel at the standard public defender hourly rate paid to the primary defense counsel.

On 3/9/2011 Mr. Nurmi submitted a formal motion to withdraw and as hearing on the motion was set for 3/21/2011.

On 3/21/2011 Mr. Nurmi’s motion to withdraw as counsel is denied. At this hearing the State’s request to change the trial date due to a scheduling conflict with State Attorney Juan M Martinez was also denied.

On 3/22/2011 another hearing is held with a second motion to withdraw by Mr. Nurmi. After the hearing on the previous day the Public Defender Office notified Mr. Nurmi that they were withdrawing the mitigation specialist, investigator, and paralegal because the Public Defender Office does not want Mr. Nurmi directing staff when he is no longer an employee. The Court ordered that Mr. Nurmi motion was denied and he was required to remain as the primary counsel and that the Public Defender Office must immediately reassign the personnel to the case.

On 4/4/2011 Mr. Nurmi stated his objection to remaining on the case during a status hearing as he has left the Public Defender Office to go into private practice. The Court found that Mr. Nurmi has an ethical obligation to continue representing the defendant but would begin receiving a reasonable hourly rate of $225.00 as compensation to avoid any financial interests that would place Mr. Nurmi in conflict with his client.

On 8/8/2011 defendant has a hearing on an oral motion she submitted to represent herself. At the end of the hearing this motion is granted but Kirk Nurmi and Victoria Washington are to remain as advisory counsel, with Victoria Washington as primary. The evidentiary hearing on the purported letters from Travis Alexander alleging he is a pedophile is held with Ms. Arias as defense counsel.

On 8/9/2011 during a normal status conference both Victoria Washington and Kirk Nurmi address the Court as to the roles and responsibility of advisory counsel, and the primary counsel (which is now the defendant). The Court agrees and addresses this with Ms. Arias and asks her if she wishes to remain as her own counsel. She states she will continue as primary counsel.

On 8/15/2011 the evidentiary hearing regarding the “pedophile” letters is completed. The Court orders that the letters are precluded and the defense withdraws them. At the end of this hearing Ms. Arias submits an oral request to withdraw as her own counsel and requests that Mr. Nurmi and Victoria Washington be reinstated as defense counsel. The Court orders Kirk Nurmi and Victoria Washington to represent the defendant in all further proceedings.

On 9/9/2011 the trial date is reset to 2/21/2012 due to the primary defense witness needing to withdraw because of a health issue. A new witness will need to be retained and allowed time to prepare for the trial.

On 12/22/2011 a hearing was held on a motion from the Public Defender Office to withdraw from this case due to a conflict of interest with Victoria Washington. Motion was allowed but the Public Defender Office will appoint a new second counsel, investigator, mitigation specialist, and paralegal. Victoria Washington is released as counsel.

On 1/3/2012 a hearing was held on a motion to continue trial due to assignment of new counsel. New secondary counsel Jennifer L Willmott was assigned by the Public Defender Office. Defendant agreed and waived the applicable time limit. Trial date was changed to 10/17/2012.
 
Geffner and LaViolette have colluded in the past.
LaViolette’s website - “Researchers Agree Woman May Hit Their Male Partner but InFrequently Batter Them- Pattern of Coercion is seldom Present in Femail Agression.”

see link: http://alycelaviolette.com/Women-Who-Hit-Their-Male-Partners.htm.

In this article, she cites ROBERT GEFFNER.

Also, they both attended this conference in 2012:
http://www.cvent.com/events/17th-international-conference-on-violence-abuse-and-trauma-the-2012-national-summit-to-end-interpers/custom-18-b1da4c68dd834500b75c020e5be82ba8.aspx

How can the defense think this guy is a good idea??????

To me it just proves the idea of "scraping the bottom of the barrel."
 
I think my curiosity is related to JM's emphasis on the time in the photo and on the Walmart receipt... I guess I will just have to wait to his closing argument to have it explained....

I noticed that JA's demeanor was very different during the testimony you are referring to about the helio phone & pics. She looks very worried & scared. At times she is near tears & also like a child that hasn't gotten their way. Her breathing is more rapid & shallow. She even makes this strange face like she is caught red handed. She is constantly bothering JW during this whole testimony. JW can't even pay close attention because she is babysitting JA. I bet anything there is more to this issue than what was revealed at the time. Hopefully we hear the rest of the story so to speak. :please:
 
Interesting. I didn't quote the diagrams, but if Arias has a case of Water from (Costco?) in the trunk of her car - why would she buy a bottle of water from McDonalds on June 2, 2008 at 7:32? Money being an issue and all...

In discussions I had about this before, Sleuthers came to the conclusion that she got the water from Darryl or Matt because she'd have to have a costco membership and there were none in her hometown at the time. So that would mean that she didn't get the Costco water until after McDonalds.

Here I added her glamour shots to the Walmart day and I'm trying to figure out when she got her hair done. Maybe between 10am and her 1257pm call to Travis?

attachment.php
 
She wrote in her journal that she got a replacement phone when she lost her Helio, we just don't know if it was exactly the same or different. I don't believe that this was ever clarified in trial? Does anyone remember anything about this?

Not much. I am very curious about these phones. From the way she tells it, she had three phones.

One lost--replaced by Gus in April.

Gus' phone lost--replaced by herself in May.

I keep asking about her getting sim cards and new numbers because I'm thinking you can just turn on the new phone and use the same number without a new SIM. I need to go back and look at the text messages and calls to see if her number changed on them.
 
I'll have to see if I can find the link. The DT filed a motion to preclude lack of remorse from being considered. What amazed me was that the motion actually stated that JA does not ever intend to convey remorse, even if convicted. She will never admit guilt, even if found guilty, and will never show remorse. That says it all.

By doing this, JA has become her own worst enemy.
 
Wow!! I was unaware of that. "That says it all" is an understatement. But, I don't think precluding a lack of remorse will matter, I think, imo, that it's pretty clear from the defense "defense" that there is no remorse. If anything, not arguing it will let it speak for itself, there is no remorse. So, BackFire!


I believethewhole point is to prevent the prosecution from pointing out anything that highlights her lack of remorse since she is claiming self defense. They don't want her post slaughter activities to suggest a lack of remorse since her defense was based on self defense. I read that on the legal thread. Makes sense from dt point of view but surely the jury will see it for what it is.
 
Interesting. I didn't quote the diagrams, but if Arias has a case of Water from (Costco?) in the trunk of her car - why would she buy a bottle of water from McDonalds on June 2, 2008 at 7:32? Money being an issue and all...

Jodi Speak Interpretation:

The truth inside that statement is that it took a lot of water to wash the blood off. So she says she had a case of water from Costco.

At some point someone probably asked her how she washed the blood off her hands once she came out of the 'fog' so she said 'I washed my hands with bottled water I had with me' the other person probably said 'well, it would take more than one bottle to wash off all the blood you would have had on you' so Jodi says 'Well I had a CASE of bottled water with me' then thinks back to the last time she saw a case of bottled water and it was in a restaurant and it was from Costco so adds 'from Costco'.

Okey Dokey then ...
 
And how many of you buy a 9mm handgun to take on an all-male camping trip? A camping trip that alarms you so much that you need to take the gun just in case you are attacked?

How many of you would just not even consider going on a camping trip that requires deadly force to protect yourself?

There was no camping trip - that was a lie to explain why she bought a gun to go kill someone else.
 
Yet another Jodi lie:

The Upsidedown License Plate


She says it happened in Pasadena at Starbucks--on her way to Travis' house. However, after the murder, she had to go through a checkpoint at Hoover Dam. They would have looked at her license plate during the check. I lived near Laredo, TX & there was a checkpoint--they were always noting license plates.

I'm listening to Jodi's testimony & trying to note each lie as I go!
 
I noticed that JA's demeanor was very different during the testimony you are referring to about the helio phone & pics. She looks very worried & scared. At times she is near tears & also like a child that hasn't gotten their way. Her breathing is more rapid & shallow. She even makes this strange face like she is caught red handed. She is constantly bothering JW during this whole testimony. JW can't even pay close attention because she is babysitting JA. I bet anything there is more to this issue than what was revealed at the time. Hopefully we hear the rest of the story so to speak. :please:

I agree, I hope it gets clarified, but what I got from it is, that is the helio she said she lost, and since the picture was taken on June 3rd, it proves it was not lost, it also proves she had the taped conversation for blackmail:

May 10th: taped sex conversation
May 15th: Picture taken with that phone of her and her dog
May 17th-18th: She claims she lost the phone - really wanted that known
June 3rd: Pictures of her with dyed hair

The camera guy did not say just the new pictures were from that helio he said ALL of the pictures JM was showing were from that helio, including the one of her and the dog, and the one of her and her sister. All was on same phone that she told the jury was lost.
 
BBM ~

Distance between Mesa, Arizona (AZ) and Salt Lake City, Utah (UT)

How many miles? 729 Miles / 1173 Km
How many hours? This take 10 hours 37 mins

It would have way faster to get from Pasadena to SLC. I think she made a detour to Travis' when all she got his voicemail while she calling him from Pasadena. He was ignoring her imo

2BBM~ She called Ryan last because now she has alibi set in place and doesn't care if he waits for her or not. She knew she had to be in time for the business meeting which I believe was Jun5 anyways.


Yes, that's reasonable. Thanks for the mileage. What is it from Mesa to Ryan?

What my problem is, I don't understand why she'd tell Ryan she was on the way at that point instead of stalling with other things, like having to return to Matt's house for some reason. When was the next time she called Ryan? I can't get my timelines to come up on HLN.

I have some times confused. Ryan was the last person she called.



And according to HLN, she called Ryan at 10pm June 4th with her "lost" story. That's 24 hours after she called him to say she'd be there. Makes no sense. Jodi is either stupid as hell or there's some kind of rhyme or reason to this, but to have someone looking for you for 24 hours? That's very conspicuous. I can't see why she'd do that.
 
Yet another Jodi lie:

The Upsidedown License Plate


She says it happened in Pasadena at Starbucks--on her way to Travis' house. However, after the murder, she had to go through a checkpoint at Hoover Dam. They would have looked at her license plate during the check. I lived near Laredo, TX & there was a checkpoint--they were always noting license plates.

I'm listening to Jodi's testimony & trying to note each lie as I go!

I hope you have a new notepad by your side, bc there is no way you'd be able to keep track without making a list. :liar:
 
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