Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Karinna]

Too bad two juries and a bunch of judges don't agree with the murderers.

There was only one Trial and one Jury for SA.

 

[Karinna]

Sound familiar?
(quote)
After several failed appeals and petitions for new trials, Avery's case was taken on by the Wisconsin Innocence Project. New DNA testing proved that Beerntsen was attacked by Allen, not Avery. As seen in the series, Avery was released from jail on this date.

 

[Karinna]

This is interesting too
(quote)
The Avery Bill*, a piece of legislation drafted by Representative Mark Gundrum in Avery's name, passed. Its purpose was to help prevent wrongful convictions. That very same day, a 25-year-old freelance photographer named Teresa Halbach went missing. Her last-known location was Avery Salvage Yard, where she was on assignment for Auto Trader Magazine to photograph a van for sale by Avery.

*The Avery Bill was later re-named The Criminal Justice Reform Bill.
A Timeline Of Major Events In Steven Avery's Case

Lots of coinky dinks in the case eh?

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Funny ... both juries and the majority of the appeals court judges don't think so.

This is only meaningful if courts are infallible. If courts can be mistaken, this is nothing but empty bluster.

His conversation with Barb lol

"Brendan sounds guilty to me!" Is not evidence. Objectively, it is not evidence. This is a bad standard to judge guilt or innocence. This has been explained to you before. The fact that you cling to this so tightly speaks volumes.
Why do you cling to bad standards? This is literally nothing more than a hunch. And based on nothing more than that hunch you have unwavering certainty in someone's guilt.

Oh, I dunno ... they look like they might know sumptin ...

Exactly.

 

[Karinna]

They really couldn't have that "ratbag" Steven Avery win anything in Manitowoc County could they?
Except life in prison of course.

 

[missy1974]

Post is getting a bit long so will respond in pieces ...

How could SA crush the car when his entire family was still working from 10/31 to 11/3 ? Are you suggesting he could have gotten it by them when Earl supposedly knew every car in the yard ? Or are you suggesting he would have told them ?

So Avery was supposed to stay behind on 11/5 and crush the car when helicopter flyovers were being done over the Avery property starting on 11/4 and Colborn (11/3) and Lenk (11/4) had already visited the ASY ?

I was responding to your comment I also think he thought he had time to crush the car as well and that explains the location in which it was left. So I am a little confused... you think he thought he had time (which obviously he didn't have time), and you respond by saying how could he do it with his entire family there. So he knew his entire family was there all week yet would find the time to crush it without them knowing... when was that going to be? And let's not forget that he had absolutely no way of knowing when she would be reported missing, it could have easily have been the evening of the 31st if anyone had noticed.

 

[Karinna]

I was responding to your comment I also think he thought he had time to crush the car as well and that explains the location in which it was left. So I am a little confused... you think he thought he had time (which obviously he didn't have time), and you respond by saying how could he do it with his entire family there. So he knew his entire family was there all week yet would find the time to crush it without them knowing... when was that going to be? And let's not forget that he had absolutely no way of knowing when she would be reported missing, it could have easily have been the evening of the 31st if anyone had noticed.

Yes exactly, it's called Logic.

 

[missy1974]

Didn't want to be a PITA ? Steven Avery ? I find that hard to believe after he ran someone off the road and pointed a gun at them ?

I would need proof SA used *67 all of the time - I don't believe it for a second. We would have to see Avery's phone records over time to know if that was true. But none of his other calls on 10/31/05 was made with *67.

Avery said the 4:35 call was about the loader but what else would he say if he was guilty ? That he was calling to ask why she had not showed up ?

We've had this discussion before. There are so many possibilities with the *67 and because we have limited data, we can only make assumptions... both you and I ... and you know what assumptions do ;-)

 

[Karinna]

This is only meaningful if courts are infallible. If courts can be mistaken, this is nothing but empty bluster.



"Brendan sounds guilty to me!" Is not evidence. Objectively, it is not evidence. This is a bad standard to judge guilt or innocence. This has been explained to you before. The fact that you cling to this so tightly speaks volumes.
Why do you cling to bad standards? This is literally nothing more than a hunch. And based on nothing more than that hunch you have unwavering certainty in someone's guilt.



Exactly.

Yes and courts often get it wrong or KZ wouldn't have any PC work.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Yes and courts often get it wrong or KZ wouldn't have any PC work.

Just some extra reading about wrongful convictions.

A record-breaking number of people were exonerated in 2015 — freed after serving time in American prisons for crimes they did not commit.

In all, 149 people spent an average of 15 years in prison before being cleared last year, according to a new report
....
The convictions ranged from lower level offenses, such as 47 drug crimes, to major felonies, including 54 murder convictions that were overturned. Five of the convicts were awaiting execution, and were saved last year when courts ruled they didn't belong in the prison in the first place.

That's 2,235 years of punishment they didn't deserve, including a literal appointments with death. Blind faith in the justice system kills people.

Twenty-seven of the innocent convicts falsely confessed to their crimes, a group comprised mainly of children or the mentally handicapped, according to the report.

This feels relevant. That is 18% by the way. Almost 1 out of 5. If 1 out of 5 potato chips tasted awful, no one would eat potato chips. Yet people are willing to take that gamble with the entirety of other people's lives.

The notion that prosecutors would spend time double-checking past convictions is quite new. Traditionally, most prosecutors view their role as convicting at trial and defending victories in virtually all appeals — not reassessing whether evidence undermines a conviction their office once sought.

The first Conviction Integrity Unit was created by a California district attorney in 2002, and 24 D.A.'s now have such units, a fourfold increase since 2011.

In places where the units have been created, the numbers show that when the government joins the cause of looking for wrongful convictions, they are not hard to find.

Jailed but Innocent: Record Number of People Exonerated in 2015

 

[keeponsearching]

I don't see anything wrong with using 67, I never used it but I grew up with the beginning of caller id. Now someone who has been in prison for 18 years, and now see all this new technology, I can see one wanting to stay private. Actually my parents used 67 for awhile. It was weird for them to know someone new they were calling.

 

[Sustained]

There was only one Trial and one Jury for SA.

One trial was plenty. They got the right man.

 

[Sustained]

This is only meaningful if courts are infallible. If courts can be mistaken, this is nothing but empty bluster.



"Brendan sounds guilty to me!" Is not evidence. Objectively, it is not evidence. This is a bad standard to judge guilt or innocence. This has been explained to you before. The fact that you cling to this so tightly speaks volumes.
Why do you cling to bad standards? This is literally nothing more than a hunch. And based on nothing more than that hunch you have unwavering certainty in someone's guilt.



Exactly.

Why are you not able to see a joke ? Are you so tightly wrapped in the case you can't step back and laugh ?

 

[Sustained]

I don't see anything wrong with using 67, I never used it but I grew up with the beginning of caller id. Now someone who has been in prison for 18 years, and now see all this new technology, I can see one wanting to stay private. Actually my parents used 67 for awhile. It was weird for them to know someone new they were calling.

You must be on the pro-Avery side.

 

[Sustained]

I was responding to your comment I also think he thought he had time to crush the car as well and that explains the location in which it was left. So I am a little confused... you think he thought he had time (which obviously he didn't have time), and you respond by saying how could he do it with his entire family there. So he knew his entire family was there all week yet would find the time to crush it without them knowing... when was that going to be? And let's not forget that he had absolutely no way of knowing when she would be reported missing, it could have easily have been the evening of the 31st if anyone had noticed.

IMO, he thought he had time on the 31st as he did not know what day TH would be reported. Maybe he thought he could crush the car after everyone else went to Crivitz. Who knows ? At the time, did SA know his visit was the last for TH that day ? It was only around 2:30.

 

[Sustained]

Sound familiar?
(quote)
After several failed appeals and petitions for new trials, Avery's case was taken on by the Wisconsin Innocence Project. New DNA testing proved that Beerntsen was attacked by Allen, not Avery. As seen in the series, Avery was released from jail on this date.

Unrelated to this case unless you want to consider how angry someone can get after 18 years of false imprisonment.

 

[Sustained]

This is interesting too
(quote)
The Avery Bill*, a piece of legislation drafted by Representative Mark Gundrum in Avery's name, passed. Its purpose was to help prevent wrongful convictions. That very same day, a 25-year-old freelance photographer named Teresa Halbach went missing. Her last-known location was Avery Salvage Yard, where she was on assignment for Auto Trader Magazine to photograph a van for sale by Avery.

*The Avery Bill was later re-named The Criminal Justice Reform Bill.
A Timeline Of Major Events In Steven Avery's Case

Lots of coinky dinks in the case eh?

Not really - I'm sure SA was not thinking about that when he raped and butchered TH.

 

[Sustained]

They really couldn't have that "ratbag" Steven Avery win anything in Manitowoc County could they?
Except life in prison of course.

Exactly what SA thought - I can murder someone as no one will think it's me as I was recently cleared.

 

[Sustained]

Yes exactly, it's called Logic.

If the truthers used any logic, they would see KZ theories as fantasies.

 

[Sustained]

We've had this discussion before. There are so many possibilities with the *67 and because we have limited data, we can only make assumptions... both you and I ... and you know what assumptions do ;-)

Right, which is what Zellner is doing with her expert tests and murder theories. Let's assume that BoD drove after TH on 147 at a high rate of speed - we assume it would take 30 seconds to catch her as she turned on to Kuss Road. We assume BoD then hit her with a blunt object and assume at some point BoD hid the car and assume that BoD collected blood from SA's sink on 11/3 when SA was at Menard's.

Yeah, I can see what assuming does ...