Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[CoolJ]

I did NOT deliberately misstate anything. Please point me to exactly what you think I misstated that you said.

I don't know what SA has lied about, I think I have stated this before. I also do not know anything more than you about the fire on the 31st, I know what everyone said in the beginning, I saw the progression of how the fire got larger as the interviews went on, I know what Radandt has stated about the fire, I know what is available to us in the documents, I still cannot say with certainty that there was a fire or not that night, that is my judgement call based on everything I have read, including SA's statements and Zellner's motions.

I do not believe that scent dogs are 100% accurate, or cadaver dogs, I do believe there are some good threads here on websleuths that may answer that question (might be in the Parking lot)

DNA maybe 100%, but let's be real here, there is way more to this case than clear cut "his DNA was there, so case closed". There are more factors involved, including planting, the lab, transporting of evidence, etc. I wish it was just that clear, but it's not IMO.

Just to further correct with regards to the fire. Not only did the size of the fire progress as the interviews went along but in many of the initial interviews there was no fire on Oct 31.

It went from no fire, to 3 feet high, to 5 feet high to 12 feet high LOL

We now have at least 1 witness who has said they were pressured by LE to exaggerate the size of the fire.
I mean, most 12 yr olds can see the deception in this case.... why are some refusing to see it?

 

[missy1974]

Lake Michigan was right there - if Steven did in fact commit some crime against Teresa that necessitated disposing of her vehicle he need not even crush the car and keep it near his own home while police scoured the property. It could be at the bottom of the lake with about zero chance of its ever being discovered.

There are so many quarries around there, so many trees, and area's that it could have been hidden and he still could have got back home by himself without involving anyone else. It has never seemed logical to me that he would just leave it there at the Salvage yard all week like that. Not to mention that he risked others seeing it, like Earl and Chuck, who knew that yard like the back of their hands... oh wait, but it was hidden behind a tree branch haha

 

[missy1974]

Just to further correct with regards to the fire. Not only did the size of the fire progress as the interviews went along but in many of the initial interviews there was no fire on Oct 31.

It went from no fire, to 3 feet high, to 5 feet high to 12 feet high LOL

We now have at least 1 witness who has said they were pressured by LE to exaggerate the size of the fire.
I mean, most 12 yr olds can see the deception in this case.... why are some refusing to see it?

Yep, and that's why even now I can't say with certainty that there was a fire that night at all! I don't care if they give SA truth serum and he swears there was a huge fire, I still don't know if I would believe it LOL

The part that got me about Radandt was reading his written statement compared to LE's report. He clearly thought it was in a barrel, but they wanted him to say it was larger and bigger than it was. JMO

 

[Sustained]

Since every witness places him at his home it would be pure speculation on your part to suggest he was anywhere else - FACT.



So everyone agrees Steven was at home - FACT.



Zero statements among the many mutually conflicting stories about leaving Avery property - FACT.



They found the grave, bones, and burn sites at the quarry, so it looks like in this case yes - FACT.

LOL!

LOL

We can go back and forth for hours ... this is so much fun.

If as Missy says you mean the ASY, please provide a link that accounts for SA's every movement after 2:30pm in 10/31/05 ? I'll be waiting ...

What grave ? What bones ? What burn site ? Do you have any proof whatsoever that TH was even there ?
Other than speculation by Zellner ?

Please provide a link.

 

[Sustained]

Right. And you said:
BBM - moved it where while taking the chance of being seen driving it ?

Implying that he wouldn't chance it lol He already successfully did it once, why not take that chance? he could have moved it anywhere that wasn't ON the property, lots of options IMO.

IMO, no options if you already have a criminal record and don't want to be seen driving a vehicle off ASY property.

 

[proudfootz]

LOL

We can go back and forth for hours ... this is so much fun.

If as Missy says you mean the ASY, please provide a link that accounts for SA's every movement after 2:30pm in 10/31/05 ? I'll be waiting ...

What grave ? What bones ? What burn site ? Do you have any proof whatsoever that TH was even there ?
Other than speculation by Zellner ?

Please provide a link.

LOL!

Now you are reduced to speculating it is somehow possible Steven might have left ASY, even though you have zero basis for it.

Yes, this could go on for hours, days, or weeks showing how the Anti-Avery position is based on idle speculation that proves nothing.

 

[Sustained]

Lake Michigan was right there - if Steven did in fact commit some crime against Teresa that necessitated disposing of her vehicle he need not even crush the car and keep it near his own home while police scoured the property. It could be at the bottom of the lake with about zero chance of its ever being discovered.

Really ? 10 miles in the dark and where would have driven the car into Lake Michigan ? Is there a mile-long pier he could've driven off ? Or are you saying he could driven over the beach and into the water and no one would have ever found the car ?

 

[missy1974]

LOL

We can go back and forth for hours ... this is so much fun.

If as Missy says you mean the ASY, please provide a link that accounts for SA's every movement after 2:30pm in 10/31/05 ? I'll be waiting ...

What grave ? What bones ? What burn site ? Do you have any proof whatsoever that TH was even there ?
Other than speculation by Zellner ?

Please provide a link.

To be clear. I didn't mean ASY at all. I meant his trailer, his yard, his garage. That would be "home" in my opinion.

 

[Sustained]

There are so many quarries around there, so many trees, and area's that it could have been hidden and he still could have got back home by himself without involving anyone else. It has never seemed logical to me that he would just leave it there at the Salvage yard all week like that. Not to mention that he risked others seeing it, like Earl and Chuck, who knew that yard like the back of their hands... oh wait, but it was hidden behind a tree branch haha

Haha, there is no reason to drive it off property if he intended to crush it. And why would LE plant the vehicle there if everyone thinks Avery would have been better off taking it off property ?

 

[Sustained]

To be clear. I didn't mean ASY at all. I meant his trailer, his yard, his garage. That would be "home" in my opinion.

Ok, so I'm still waiting for the link from Proudfoot that proves SA was in your definition of "home" from 2:30pm onward on 10/31.

 

[Sustained]

LOL!

Now you are reduced to speculating it is somehow possible Steven might have left ASY, even though you have zero basis for it.

Yes, this could go on for hours, days, or weeks showing how the Anti-Avery position is based on idle speculation that proves nothing.

I am waiting for your link as you claimed SA was "home" all night as FACT. Remember ?

 

[Sustained]

Yep, and that's why even now I can't say with certainty that there was a fire that night at all! I don't care if they give SA truth serum and he swears there was a huge fire, I still don't know if I would believe it LOL

The part that got me about Radandt was reading his written statement compared to LE's report. He clearly thought it was in a barrel, but they wanted him to say it was larger and bigger than it was. JMO

I believe it - Avery must've lied about it. Would you tell LE about a fire if you had just burned a body in your firepit ?

 

[missy1974]

Ok, so I'm still waiting for the link from Proudfoot that proves SA was in your definition of "home" from 2:30pm onward on 10/31.

Are you suggesting he left? And could you provide me with a link to show that he left the property? This could be interesting. Where do you suppose he went?

 

[proudfootz]

Really ? 10 miles in the dark and where would have driven the car into Lake Michigan ? Is there a mile-long pier he could've driven off ? Or are you saying he could driven over the beach and into the water and no one would have ever found the car ?

IIRC RAV4s typically have headlights which would allow someone to drive 'in the dark'. LOL!

Provide documentation that one would require a mile long pier to get water sufficient to cover a small car. LOL!

 

[missy1974]

I am waiting for your link as you claimed SA was "home" all night as FACT. Remember ?

You could start here:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

And here:
Jury Trial Index – Steven Avery Trial Transcripts and Documents

I don't even think that the State suggests he left "home" that night, he was too busy tending his fire and immaculately cleaning his trailer and garage. The firepit was behind his garage in his yard, his trailer is his home, and the garage was right beside his home.

 

[Sustained]

Are you suggesting he left? And could you provide me with a link to show that he left the property? This could be interesting. Where do you suppose he went?

By your definition of home and BD's confession, he moved the Rav4 to where it was found on 11/5. Still waiting on Proudfoot's link proving SA was home all night.

 

[proudfootz]

To be clear. I didn't mean ASY at all. I meant his trailer, his yard, his garage. That would be "home" in my opinion.

While we have ample evidence Steven was in and about his home there isn't a scintilla of evidence that proves Teresa was in either his house or garage.

 

[Sustained]

IIRC RAV4s typically have headlights which would allow someone to drive 'in the dark'. LOL!

Provide documentation that one would require a mile long pier to get water sufficient to cover a small car. LOL!

Then give us a scenario of how SA could've driven the car into Lake Michigan and gotten home.

10 miles is a long walk - was BD driving at the time ?

 

[Sustained]

While we have ample evidence Steven was in and about his home there isn't a scintilla of evidence that proves Teresa was in either his house or garage.

Provide a link that he was home the entire time or it's bullcarp.

 

[proudfootz]

By your definition of home and BD's confession, he moved the Rav4 to where it was found on 11/5. Still waiting on Proudfoot's link proving SA was home all night.

No witness statement has been produced so far indicating Steven went anywhere.

No need for me to provide a link to 'disprove' something you've just made up ad hoc.