Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[carm112]

i think that it's really difficult, there are so many things that make you think he didnt do it, the police force that investigated and had him sent to prison the first time around being let on his property shows something isn't right, the fact he was found guilty than innocent and how the police went after him makes you think he didnt do it, but he does himself no favors, those letters he wrote, demanding houses from the first victim, i dunno, it's so clouded and muddied that i it's really hard, but the fact the police department that orginally set him up, found the car keys, means that this case needs to be looked at, another police department and another set of jurors who aren't influenced by this need to come in. because although there have been times i've thought he maybe was guilty, something still isnt right.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

I'm undecided.

I can see where people think he is guilty. This is by no means a "good" man. He was already a trouble-maker, who over time showed signs of being a sociopath (killing animals, entertaining disturbing killing thoughts in prison, etc). But he was also the target of a cover-up. While the documentary did not show all the evidence presented (or skewed it), there was still nonetheless botched evidence or big holes missing.

He at the very least deserves a new trial. If he is deemed guilty, so be it. But having a fair trial is the crux of our justice system.

Saying "oh well he's guilty anyways" is the exact way our system fails. It's the exact message the documentary was trying to prove, that seemed to go over many peoples heads.

 

[missy1974]

I'm undecided.

I can see where people think he is guilty. This is by no means a "good" man. He was already a trouble-maker, who over time showed signs of being a sociopath (killing animals, entertaining disturbing killing thoughts in prison, etc). But he was also the target of a cover-up. While the documentary did not show all the evidence presented (or skewed it), there was still nonetheless botched evidence or big holes missing.

He at the very least deserves a new trial. If he is deemed guilty, so be it. But having a fair trial is the crux of our justice system.

Saying "oh well he's guilty anyways" is the exact way our system fails. It's the exact message the documentary was trying to prove, that seemed to go over many peoples heads.

I agree.

And I had to respond just to say... I love your username LOL

:wagon: welcome to websleuths

 

[courtbby]

I think it's important to remember that young people who engage in torture of animals are labeled sociopaths. Not all sociopaths are murderers, and not all murderers are sociopaths. You cannot base Steve Avery's guilt on his being a sociopath, because we can only find someone guilty in a courtroom by evidence.

There was not enough evidence to prove his guilt legally. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks happened, it only matters what can be proved that happened. They did not prove Avery committed the murder, so he should not have been found guilty.

A new trial would be just.

 

[ACJL]

I think it's important to remember that young people who engage in torture of animals are labeled sociopaths. Not all sociopaths are murderers, and not all murderers are sociopaths. You cannot base Steve Avery's guilt on his being a sociopath, because we can only find someone guilty in a courtroom by evidence.

There was not enough evidence to prove his guilt legally. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks happened, it only matters what can be proved that happened. They did not prove Avery committed the murder, so he should not have been found guilty.

A new trial would be just.

What do you mean with "they did not prove Avery committed the murder"? What evidence do you need so u can say "they DID prove Avery committed the murder". There is no smoking gun in this case, and in many there isn't (though we do have a bullet with the victims DNA on it linked to Avery's rifle) an we don't need one for a conviction. We also have Steven's blood in the victim's car. Now we've all heard those Avery supporter arguments like "if he was bleeding in the car it should've been on the poke, or here, or there, or etc", but as long as he doesn't prove that blood is planted, then I think this alone is more than enough to keep him behind bars. It's incredibly damning evidence.

She was never seen anywhere else as well. Her phone went offline in his vicinity, she stopped doing anything with her phone about the time she was there, and her car ends up being found on her property. If there is some other "real killer" out there, he is incredibly lucky he picked Steven, and that Steven didn't go back to work after the 5-minute appointment. And that Steven had no alibi and had opportunity. And that Steven actually had a bonfire. Or rather; two separate fires: a bonfire and a burn barrel fire, and that the electronics seemed to have been burned separately from the bones. He is also lucky he put the electronics in the barrel Steven was seen using on the 31st. He is also lucky for using lead bullets, .22 caliber, just like Steven. The "real killer" must have been monitoring Steven on the 31st, else he/she is the luckiest framer of all time. He/she also had some help from Steven when Steven started to tell lies such as "she hasn't shown up", "I only saw her out the window, I never talked to her", "I didn't burn anything that night".

I don't believe the cops could've done this. They didn't kill Teresa. Strang says so as well. He believes the cops thought the man guilty, so they wanted to ensure his conviction. But he also hints Colborn planted the car. All Colborn knew at that time he was supposedly looking at the car was that Teresa was missing. Imagine he was looking at the car at that time. How on earth did he even find it being on the road in his car? Why did nobody find it before him? Why on earth would he, when finding TH's car, suddenly decide she was murdered by Steven Avery and place the car on his property on the complete other side of where Steven lives when he had no other evidence against him yet? They weren't even sure if Steven's was her last stop. And how did he get rid of trace evidence of the "real killer" and leave Teresa's intact? Does he have some kind of forensic skills we don't know about?

 

[Laura Mountford]

I think it was someone the victim knew well.

I personally believe her own brother and ex boyfriend had something to do with her death.
Both very shady and uneasy during questioning, tried messing with her phone voicemails and they even showed evidence in court of Teresa taking about how much she loves her mum and her dad and there is no mention of her love for her brother. I get the impression they did not get on which could be possible motive?

 

[Laura Mountford]

I think if there are too many options and it gets all muddled


I think there are absolutes that can be pinpointed in the poll.

for example :

What do you believe right now ?

Guilty
Innocent
Undecided - need more information


Another might be :

Do you believe police planted evidence :

Yes
No
Undecided - willing to consider this could have happened.



Personally, I think that's cleaner. If there was only one user per vote, that they could change at any time, you could even track how overall impressions changed over time and cross reference with new details that emerge.


I voted "looks guilty", but I also think that he needs a new trial, because I have tons of questions and suspicion.


"looks guilty" is an impression, but not as definitive.

I agree that we need a poll about the police planting evidence which in my opinion, they most certainly did!

 

[ACJL]

I agree that we need a poll about the police planting evidence which in my opinion, they most certainly did!

So you think Mike Halbach murdered Teresa but the police planted the evidence?

 

[ACJL]

I personally believe her own brother and ex boyfriend had something to do with her death.
Both very shady and uneasy during questioning, tried messing with her phone voicemails and they even showed evidence in court of Teresa taking about how much she loves her mum and her dad and there is no mention of her love for her brother. I get the impression they did not get on which could be possible motive?

Based on one video you get the impression they didn't get along?
Based on one video you think Mike murdered his own sister?
It was a shady video, sure, but that could mean anything.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Court to consider Avery's motion on evidence recently discovered

Last month, Avery’s attorney, Kathleen Zellner, filed a motion with the court of appeals, asking to amend its appeal to that court because of a CD she says was first disclosed to the defense on April 17 of this year.

In a ruling issued Thursday, the appeals court denied her motion. But, the appeals court ordered “that this appeal is remanded forthwith to the circuit court to permit Steven A. Avery to pursue a supplemental postconviction motion in connection with Avery's receipt of previously withheld discovery or other new information,” court records show.

Zellner was given 30 days to file such a motion, and told a Sheboygan County Judge to “conduct any necessary proceedings and enter an order containing its findings and conclusions within sixty days after the supplemental postconviction motion is filed.”

 

[Starryeyed]

I just caught up and watched this series. After completing it but before doing much research into the case, I was thoroughly convinced that Steven was innocent. I came to good ol Websleuths to see what else is out there that I didn't know about, and I'm sure glad I did! You guys, as always, are amazing and thorough.
After reading through thread after thread here and on Reddit, as well reading articles you all posted, my stance has 100% changed. I now believe whole heartedly that Steven is guilty of Teresa's murder. The evidence left out of the show, such as her electronics also being found in the burn barrel, Steven actually possessing the leg restraints and chains Brendan described, and Steven calling her from a blocked number and misleading her to come out... these things paint a much different picture of Steven Avery.
As for Brendan, I feel horribly sorry for him. I still believe he was interrogated improperly and his intellectual disability was clearly exploited by his uncle and then again by LE and his own lawyer! He alone deserves a new trial IMO, and also IMO he doesn't deserve a life sentence.

 

[missy1974]

I just caught up and watched this series. After completing it but before doing much research into the case, I was thoroughly convinced that Steven was innocent. I came to good ol Websleuths to see what else is out there that I didn't know about, and I'm sure glad I did! You guys, as always, are amazing and thorough.
After reading through thread after thread here and on Reddit, as well reading articles you all posted, my stance has 100% changed. I now believe whole heartedly that Steven is guilty of Teresa's murder. The evidence left out of the show, such as her electronics also being found in the burn barrel, Steven actually possessing the leg restraints and chains Brendan described, and Steven calling her from a blocked number and misleading her to come out... these things paint a much different picture of Steven Avery.
As for Brendan, I feel horribly sorry for him. I still believe he was interrogated improperly and his intellectual disability was clearly exploited by his uncle and then again by LE and his own lawyer! He alone deserves a new trial IMO, and also IMO he doesn't deserve a life sentence.

Hi Starryeyed! Welcome to the forum

The fact that her electronics were found in a burn barrel wasn't in the show? It's been so long since I have watched, I don't recall. I came here way back when I was watching the show, I wasn't sure what to think as I was watching, over the last almost 2 years, I have always thought that SA could have done it, but there are so many questions, that I could never be certain. After watching Brendan's interrogation video's, I am convinced he had nothing to do with it and should not be in prison, period.

Steven did have a pair of handcuffs, they were from an adult store. No leg restraints that I recall. And most importantly, there are no marks on his headboard that show that anyone was restrained or handcuffed to it. Steve did call TH from his cell phone using *67, she didn't answer any of those calls, but he initially called AutoTrader that morning to set up the appointment without blocking his number, and actually called back later that morning to confirm if the photographer could come that day, again, without blocking his number.

If you are brave and have the time, all the documents available to us can be found at www.stevenaverycase.org Everything from trial transcripts, pictures, exhibits, pre and post trial documents, interrogation video's and more can be found there

 

[Corrupt2theCore]

What do you mean with "they did not prove Avery committed the murder"? What evidence do you need so u can say "they DID prove Avery committed the murder". There is no smoking gun in this case, and in many there isn't (though we do have a bullet with the victims DNA on it linked to Avery's rifle) an we don't need one for a conviction. We also have Steven's blood in the victim's car. Now we've all heard those Avery supporter arguments like "if he was bleeding in the car it should've been on the poke, or here, or there, or etc", but as long as he doesn't prove that blood is planted, then I think this alone is more than enough to keep him behind bars. It's incredibly damning evidence.

She was never seen anywhere else as well. Her phone went offline in his vicinity, she stopped doing anything with her phone about the time she was there, and her car ends up being found on her property. If there is some other "real killer" out there, he is incredibly lucky he picked Steven, and that Steven didn't go back to work after the 5-minute appointment. And that Steven had no alibi and had opportunity. And that Steven actually had a bonfire. Or rather; two separate fires: a bonfire and a burn barrel fire, and that the electronics seemed to have been burned separately from the bones. He is also lucky he put the electronics in the barrel Steven was seen using on the 31st. He is also lucky for using lead bullets, .22 caliber, just like Steven. The "real killer" must have been monitoring Steven on the 31st, else he/she is the luckiest framer of all time. He/she also had some help from Steven when Steven started to tell lies such as "she hasn't shown up", "I only saw her out the window, I never talked to her", "I didn't burn anything that night".

I don't believe the cops could've done this. They didn't kill Teresa. Strang says so as well. He believes the cops thought the man guilty, so they wanted to ensure his conviction. But he also hints Colborn planted the car. All Colborn knew at that time he was supposedly looking at the car was that Teresa was missing. Imagine he was looking at the car at that time. How on earth did he even find it being on the road in his car? Why did nobody find it before him? Why on earth would he, when finding TH's car, suddenly decide she was murdered by Steven Avery and place the car on his property on the complete other side of where Steven lives when he had no other evidence against him yet? They weren't even sure if Steven's was her last stop. And how did he get rid of trace evidence of the "real killer" and leave Teresa's intact? Does he have some kind of forensic skills we don't know about?

And this is why so many innocent people are in prison.
That's absolutely amazing the real killer was lucky enough to have been using .22 bullets made from lead.... all .22 bullets are made of lead. Some have a thin copper color coating used to aid in preventing fouling.
So, not amazing at all.
Remember also, the bullet was tainted by the examiner in the forensics lab.

 

[Jennifer17]

And this is why so many innocent people are in prison.
That's absolutely amazing the real killer was lucky enough to have been using .22 bullets made from lead.... all .22 bullets are made of lead. Some have a thin copper color coating used to aid in preventing fouling.
So, not amazing at all.
Remember also, the bullet was tainted by the examiner in the forensics lab.

Is this sarcasim?

 

[Elkitchtasso]

Hey everyone,

Like so many this case has struck my interest, but at the same time Im overwhelmed with the huge amount of information. Also people sometimes can get a little emotional and hostile when disagreeing. So in an effort to structure the case I've started a Kialo discussion: who has killed Teresa Halbach? I'm not sure yet if this is a good way to structure such cases, but let's give it a try!
You'll need writer permission to contribute, which you get through this link. Otherwise I'll have to accept your contribution.

Currently it is still a bit empty but hopefully over time we'll create a nice overview where information is linked together in a nice overview.

 

[ACJL]

Welcome!

Also people sometimes can get a little emotional and hostile when disagreeing.

Yep, which is a shame. This is a case that could create many great discussions, but that actually rarely happens.

 

[Boomstick]

Absolutely guilty. There are simply too many factors that point directly to his guilt that could not have been provided by others.

 

[leslievernon]

yeah but it makes no sense. that's why i think this could be one of those rare cases of actual framing somebody. at least i've never seen one. and i am not saying that the police framed avery.

 

[Karinna]

IMO I am goin to reserve judgement on who is guilty or not in this case until the lengthy post conviction process if finalized by Avery's legal counsel. I think it still has a long way to go through the court system yet.

 

[Boomstick]

Hey everyone,

Like so many this case has struck my interest, but at the same time Im overwhelmed with the huge amount of information. Also people sometimes can get a little emotional and hostile when disagreeing. So in an effort to structure the case I've started a Kialo discussion: who has killed Teresa Halbach? I'm not sure yet if this is a good way to structure such cases, but let's give it a try!
You'll need writer permission to contribute, which you get through this link. Otherwise I'll have to accept your contribution.

Currently it is still a bit empty but hopefully over time we'll create a nice overview where information is linked together in a nice overview.

IMO I am goin to reserve judgement on who is guilty or not in this case until the lengthy post conviction process if finalized by Avery's legal counsel. I think it still has a long way to go through the court system yet.

No, it really doesn’t. It’s been denied over and over again. His attorney is desperately trying to have anything stick, and nothing is. Her motions have been denied over and over.