Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[JJLuvsTV]

I tried to quote the above post but it wouldn't let me , wouldnt' Bryan's statement that "Bobby told me.." be inadmissible as hearsay?

it's only hearsay to have Bryan testify to what Bobby told him as evidence that Brenden/Steven were innocent. However, his statement can be used to impeach Bobby's statements AFTER he's already testified.

 

[proudfootz]

I get that the documentary is seen as biased, partially I think because the prosecution and TH's family didn't take part (not faulting them for this), BUT a lot of us have watched and read all the documents available, including transcripts, exhibits, interviews, etc. Not all opinions here are just based off a Netflix series.

Over the last 3 years, I assumed there was information out there that we haven't been able to get, yet, it seems after watching 6 episodes, KZ doesn't have much more information than we do and she has access to all the documents!

BBM

I'm so often told that the documentary is outrageously biased, yet among people who have seen it some come away thinking Steven is guilty, some come away thinking he might be guilty, and others come away thinking he is innocent. If this was a 'propaganda piece' it was singularly ineffective.

For my own part after only viewing the documentary I thought Steven could be guilty. It was only after doing further study of the evidence did I come to the conclusion I now hold.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

What a complete joke the state’s case is. I can only hope this is a standalone farce and others around the world are not being treated like this. What a disgrace. Unbelievable to think the most powerful person on this planet can’t intervene to hold these muppets accountable.
JMO

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

And KK is a creep. I think at least a new trial can happen.

This goes way beyond being a creep. There are actual criminals out there with better ethics than him.

 

[CherryKitty]

So I haven't yet finished the second season, but I've watched the first and studied all available evidence. Quite honestly, both from a gut and legal perspective, I can't fully decide whether I believe he's innocent or guilty. I don't know why I'm just conflicted.

That being said - I don't trust the law enforcement handling this case, nor do I have any respect for KK. And that has nothing to do with my belief or disbelief in SA, because I haven't made my mind up.

I am a fan of KZ and she was one of my big inspirations for wanting to study law. But the only thing I can't decide on, is SA's innocence... but I think that is partially, for me, because of how poorly the case was handled. My mind is open, and very sympathetic to the Avery family and SA himself because it has been a s&*t-show of a case.

 

[ClockworkLemon]

So I haven't yet finished the second season, but I've watched the first and studied all available evidence. Quite honestly, both from a gut and legal perspective, I can't fully decide whether I believe he's innocent or guilty. I don't know why I'm just conflicted.

That being said - I don't trust the law enforcement handling this case, nor do I have any respect for KK. And that has nothing to do with my belief or disbelief in SA, because I haven't made my mind up.

I am a fan of KZ and she was one of my big inspirations for wanting to study law. But the only thing I can't decide on, is SA's innocence... but I think that is partially, for me, because of how poorly the case was handled. My mind is open, and very sympathetic to the Avery family and SA himself because it has been a s&*t-show of a case.

You pretty much just summed up how I feel as well. There’s evidence that seems to point to SA but some things don’t add up and obviously things were tampered with. I read some stuff on Theresa’s ex and he sounds fishy too though. Either way, this case was a complete mess from start to finish. I was shocked at how many mistakes were made!

 

[Saul Vesalot]

So I haven't yet finished the second season, but I've watched the first and studied all available evidence. Quite honestly, both from a gut and legal perspective, I can't fully decide whether I believe he's innocent or guilty. I don't know why I'm just conflicted.

That being said - I don't trust the law enforcement handling this case, nor do I have any respect for KK. And that has nothing to do with my belief or disbelief in SA, because I haven't made my mind up.

I am a fan of KZ and she was one of my big inspirations for wanting to study law. But the only thing I can't decide on, is SA's innocence... but I think that is partially, for me, because of how poorly the case was handled. My mind is open, and very sympathetic to the Avery family and SA himself because it has been a s&*t-show of a case.

That's one of the big things for me. I have little trouble believing Steven did kill her....except, if it is such an open an shut case, why all the shenanigans? They're STILL going on. In episode 6 or 7 KZ gets evidence from Culhane and her handling of it then was still really weird.

If Steven is so guilty, just keep your nose to the grindstone and put him in prison step by step, by the book. I can't think of anything the police did by the book in this investigation. So either something fishy is going on with the police work in this case, or their police work is this messy in EVERY case, and they shouldn't be police.

This was the biggest case the police department probably ever had. It had so much riding on it. Imagine transferring their quality of work to another job and them not losing that job. Imagine a dentist as bad at dentistry as the Manitowoc police were at this case.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Must identify the 'real' killer (assuming it's not SA), or the state is not going to budge. So far KZ appears to being making substantial arguements/claims/evidence, however continues to have motions denied. While she states she will not quit, and I believe her, I do think that the only thing the state will pardon SA or BD for is the 'real' killer with clear evidence, like the last time he was released. Manitowoc, State of Wisconsin....doesn't matter, they either:
1. have additional evidence on BD and SA
2. more concerned with their pride/image/reputation that true justice
3. more concerned about the well being of Halbach's than the Avery's...(assuming SA innocent).
Either way, they don't seem like they will accept any motions...simply put, a new trial for both is justified in the evidence that exists and agreed upon today:

• No blood or DNA found on bed where throat was slit. No marking of cuffs on bed, no other DNA or blood found in SA bedroom....AND
• No blood spatter found in garage where she was shot in head
• Therefore....
  • Lack of evidence supporting BD confession, even if you believe is was not coerced!!!
  • If BD confession is inaccurate, then KK storyline and recount of the events is inaccurate, therefore....new trial for BD
  • Not to mention all the unanswered questions, bones in quarry, car movement, deleted VMs, her leaving the ASY property..
• If BD confession not accurate, SA deserves a new trial with investigations into BoD, ST, and RH...and many others that were left off.

But....all the speculation, storylines and evidence by KZ proving to be in vain with State right now....I hope she is successful in new trial, but I really think she has to produce an alternate killer with evidence to get him released.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I get that the documentary is seen as biased, partially I think because the prosecution and TH's family didn't take part (not faulting them for this), BUT a lot of us have watched and read all the documents available, including transcripts, exhibits, interviews, etc. Not all opinions here are just based off a Netflix series.

Over the last 3 years, I assumed there was information out there that we haven't been able to get, yet, it seems after watching 6 episodes, KZ doesn't have much more information than we do and she has access to all the documents!

Watching this second season all I see is her still trying to make something of nothing. I will never believe he didn’t do this. There is too much that points to him. You’d have to believe that some one out of the blue murders her on or close to the property, then saves evidence then moved it back and forth to his property, then breaks in SAs trailer to steal blood they would have no idea was there and then swab it, take it out to the car and plant it.
It defies any kind of logic. Because you can come up with crazy scenarios doesn’t make any of it reality. Them drawing blood on her car to make it look like that is how blood got in Theresa’s car is insane.
Zellners whole defense is that everyone on the other side is corrupt and in on the collusion.

 

[proudfootz]

That's one of the big things for me. I have little trouble believing Steven did kill her....except, if it is such an open an shut case, why all the shenanigans? They're STILL going on. In episode 6 or 7 KZ gets evidence from Culhane and her handling of it then was still really weird.

If Steven is so guilty, just keep your nose to the grindstone and put him in prison step by step, by the book. I can't think of anything the police did by the book in this investigation. So either something fishy is going on with the police work in this case, or their police work is this messy in EVERY case, and they shouldn't be police.

This was the biggest case the police department probably ever had. It had so much riding on it. Imagine transferring their quality of work to another job and them not losing that job. Imagine a dentist as bad at dentistry as the Manitowoc police were at this case.

Yes.

When people lie, and obfuscate, and go out of their way to do things in a bizarre manner, and cover up I get suspicious.

This also involves the possible murder of a member of their community, yet law enforcement seems to me to act in such a cavalier manner - as if their only concern is obtaining a conviction and not uncovering the truth.

 

[RANCH]

‘Making a Murderer’ rebuttal podcast will ‘tell the story’ the crime doc refuses to show, says host

“The second season of ‘Rebutting a Murderer’ will again fill in ‘Making a Murderer’s’ gaps and tell the story that it won’t,” O’Donnell told Fox News.

“’Making a Murderer’ is Steven Avery’s story and its viewers owe it to themselves to hear the other side and consider the evidence that ‘Making a Murderer’ still can’t bring itself to show, the evidence that still proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey killed Teresa Halbach and are right where they belong — in prison.”

I hope that I can find the time to check this podcast out in the near future. It will help me get some balance in this case.

‘Making a Murderer’ rebuttal podcast will ‘tell the story’ the crime doc refuses to show, says host

 

[Karinna]

I think looking at this case in a logical way, what would Steven Avery have a motive to kill Teresa Halbach for? They had been doing business transactions together with the vehicles Auto Trader advertised in their business.
TH has never been noted to have stated she was scared to go to meet SA to do business transactions with. If she was weirded out in a scary way, or bad business transactions between them, she would have refused to do business with him or got someone else to go along with her, IMO.
SA had no motive, and he had never raped anyone before, so i doubt he had that in mind to do.
Yet with someone in the Dassey family, namely BoD, that had a penchant to watch violent *advertiser censored*, and obsessed with dead female bodies, etc. would look like a more likely perp. is what makes sense to me.

 

[RANCH]

I think looking at this case in a logical way, what would Steven Avery have a motive to kill Teresa Halbach for? They had been doing business transactions together with the vehicles Auto Trader advertised in their business.
TH has never been noted to have stated she was scared to go to meet SA to do business transactions with. If she was weirded out in a scary way, or bad business transactions between them, she would have refused to do business with him or got someone else to go along with her, IMO.
SA had no motive, and he had never raped anyone before, so i doubt he had that in mind to do.
Yet with someone in the Dassey family, namely BoD, that had a penchant to watch violent *advertiser censored*, and obsessed with dead female bodies, etc. would look like a more likely perp. is what makes sense to me.

I think that a possible motive would be that Steven Avery tried to sexually assault Teresa Halbach and when she fought back he killed her.

 

[k-mac]

Have you read about the outright corruption committed by Dr. Leslie Eisenberg in another case where she knowingly misidentified remains. Have you read and comprehended Dr. Eisenbergs testimony in the Avery trial. She had no confidence in what she was saying whatsoever.

What is it you would like to know about the "remains"?

how LE came upon her murder and or remains and subsequently picked it all up.....and decided to pin it on avery.
take it all over there. coincidently find in a lab previous blood work of averys ..take that too
and.....
let off scot free the person who actually killed Teresa.
or one better.
the cops killed her just to get him.
these are your choices if you support averys claims.

but ive said this over and over again.
but I can keep asking the question.
maybe one day an avery supporter will actually answer it.
jmo

 

[Karinna]

I think that a possible motive would be that Steven Avery tried to sexually assault Teresa Halbach and when she fought back he killed her.

I don't think SA needed TH for sex, he had a girlfriend at the time whom he spoke to at the jail that day. Who for a reason i have forgotten was denied day leave from the jail also that day.
And to get 16 yr. old Brendan Dassey in on the act too? Why would he even do that? Sounds a bit too far fetched to me, IMO.

 

[proudfootz]

I seem to recall reading some stuff from Dan O'Donnell before.

 

[Karinna]

how LE came upon her murder and or remains and subsequently picked it all up.....and decided to pin it on avery.
take it all over there. coincidently find in a lab previous blood work of averys ..take that too
and.....
let off scot free the person who actually killed Teresa.
or one better.
the cops killed her just to get him.
these are your choices if you support averys claims.

but ive said this over and over again.
but I can keep asking the question.
maybe one day an avery supporter will actually answer it.
jmo

Respectfully, not really sure what the question is you seek answers to?

 

[Karinna]

I will put this up here in regard to Ms Zellner's previous exoneration cases because she is excellent as to what she does. And if she believes SA is innocent of TH's murder then why would i doubt her?
Kathleen Zellner's 19 innocent defendants Exonerated
1. Ronnie Bullock
2. Joseph Burrows
3. Billy Wardell
4. Len Puccini
5-8. Omar Saunders, Marcellius Bradford, Larry Ollins & Calvin Ollins
9. Kevin Fox
10-11. Harold Hill and Dan Young
12. Alprentiss Nash
13. Cesar Munoz
14. Lathierial Boyd
15. Ryan Ferguson
16. James Edwards
17. Mario casciaro
18. Bernard mims
19. Darryl Fulton*
Wrongful Conviction

 

[k-mac]

Respectfully, not really sure what the question is you seek answers to?

cant really make it much simpler.
if you accept the suggestion that avery was framed By LE.
how did LE happen upon Teresa's murder and/or cremated remains?

i have posted this question about 5 times and only ever get evasive vague comments about not comprehending the question.
its really a black and white question.

you can not take on the second half and make up a theory . where is the beginning to this enormous conspiracy????

where did the police find and hijack a murderscene to frame avery???

 

[Karinna]

cant really make it much simpler.
if you accept the suggestion that avery was framed By LE.
how did LE happen upon Teresa's murder and/or cremated remains?

i have posted this question about 5 times and only ever get evasive vague comments about not comprehending the question.
its really a black and white question.

you can not take on the second half and make up a theory . where is the beginning to this enormous conspiracy????

where did the police find and hijack a murderscene to frame avery???

BBM, This will answer some of your questions as to the timelines from the beginning of who did what and when, and when all the various so called evidence was discovered:
(quote)
November 8, 2005:

• Teresa's key is found in Avery's bedroom, during a three hour and 43 minute search of his trailer
  
  
• Licenses plates from Teresa's car are discovered in another car in the Avery yard
  
  
• Bones and teeth are found in Avery's burn pit
• Timeline of Halbach case