You're right- no intruder would fix her hair. That's exactly why the Rs made a fuss over it. When LE asked about the unusual hairstyle, the Rs jumped at the chance to say they'd never do her hair that way. Yet, the LE asking where men who I could assure you probably never fixed a little girls' long hair for bed. Boys, short-haired girls- no fuss needed. Long hair? Gotta fix it somehow or it gets really tangled. Those men were clueless. But when I saw the description of JB's hair by the coroner, it made sense to me right away. I'd seen a photo of JB from the Rs' Christmas party on the 23rd, and her hair had that topknot ponytail with the rest hanging long. She had it like that in a school photo that we've all seen- she's wearing a navy top with white piping, with a large bow at the topknot. I knew Patsy probably considered the topknot a "party" hairstyle, so I can easily imagine JB wearing her hair like that at the White's, then Patsy pulling the long hair back into a ponytail at the nape of her neck when she got JB into her pajamas.
Still Asking Questions Here
- Thread starter Ravyn
- Start date
You're right- no intruder would fix her hair. That's exactly why the Rs made a fuss over it. When LE asked about the unusual hairstyle, the Rs jumped at the chance to say they'd never do her hair that way. Yet, the LE asking where men who I could assure you probably never fixed a little girls' long hair for bed. Boys, short-haired girls- no fuss needed. Long hair? Gotta fix it somehow or it gets really tangled. Those men were clueless. But when I saw the description of JB's hair by the coroner, it made sense to me right away. I'd seen a photo of JB from the Rs' Christmas party on the 23rd, and her hair had that topknot ponytail with the rest hanging long. She had it like that in a school photo that we've all seen- she's wearing a navy top with white piping, with a large bow at the topknot. I knew Patsy probably considered the topknot a "party" hairstyle, so I can easily imagine JB wearing her hair like that at the White's, then Patsy pulling the long hair back into a ponytail at the nape of her neck when she got JB into her pajamas.
Ravyn
New Member
Myself I have long hair to my waist so I know about the ponytails...But see I can't see how the R's could even get out of the simple lies they weaved...Now I know the lawyers but have to remember had help from the DA's office too..And when I say this don't treat them like supects but victims....
madeleine
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,972
- Reaction score
- 88
The thing is....her head was bashed,she was smothered,carried down to the basement and so on...I can't imagine those ponytails would remain fixed....so that's why I think someone re-arranged her hair and I don't think it was a man but her mother.
If you look at the crime scene photo where she is laying on the rug in the R living room, her hair looks very messy and unkempt. It doesn't look to me that it had been redone. The photo is the one where the police/coroner's right-angle ruler is laying across her, she's turned on her side. You can see the pattern of the living room rug under her and the briefest glimpse of the brown paper bags that were placed on her hands.
Ravyn
New Member
But I thought the bags was placed after the coroner left....But according to somewhere I read JB hair was fixed neatly...
Ravyn
New Member
Right Madeleine,very confusing but yeah, that could be why the coroner did noticed the head wound but still only being the 20 minuets I wonder if he would had noticed anything....
Neatly is a relative term. Take a look at the photo. By all accounts, Mayer was surprised to find the head bash. There were others present at the autopsy, including Det. Arndt.
Here's the link: http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceathouse.jpg
Ravyn
New Member
But like I said before on different links and especially for the Ramsey's everything is always different in alot of the facts...
Ravyn
New Member
Now about the fingernails just asking here could this information been mislead cause the LE or heck can't believe I'm writting this but even the DA wanted to keep some evidence hush hush....Just asking for info....
Chiquita71
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,835
- Reaction score
- 2
Hello WS
Thank you DeeDee
Thank you and I did go to the link you provided and have been reading threads on WS, of course. This post was back in May, and oh, boy do I see things differently. I did always feel the Ramsey's were more than involved...but I had no real reason other than what I thought. Now, I am going crazy seeing what you all have already been through, and through...
I will apologize to the whole of Websleuths for my late questioning. I have so much to post and go over here. So many of you will probably be seeing my posts and saying: yeah...we know...sigh. But it is all so new to me! :loser:
:dance:Thank you all so much. I :blowkiss: WS
...jmo...
Chiquita71
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,835
- Reaction score
- 2
See, I am in that click mode. You guys know that mode where information that you have held in mind for quite some time waiting to make up your mind: and one more piece of info comes in and Click! You get it.
(the bolded) Plainly this shows JB was killed in the clothes she had put on to wear for visiting that day(because there are pictures of her in it). For this shirt to be on her when her body was found: (a. she never took it off (b. somehow the shirt got back on her self after one of her parents(or she)put on what she was wearing to sleep.
What's suspicious about being killed in the clothes you were wearing when you were killed? Nothing in of itself. But. Because there are statements to LE by PR and JR (that are long and detailed as they are questioned)re: putting JB into her "bedclothes"/"pajamas" and putting her to bed.
Exactly because of John and Patsy's statements: We have to wonder about why she was wearing what she was wearing.
I do have to ask: if JB was wearing the white star top to visit, came home(awake or asleep)but at some point either PR or JR caused or witnessed a blow to JB's skull: wouldn't there be blood on said white star top JB was found wearing? Wouldn't John and Patsy have wanted to then change her into pajamas so as to cover any blood from injury, plus make it look like she had been "all ready for bed in her jammies"(my words) sleeping when the intruder came in?
What am I not seeing? :doh:
Wait. They weren't trying to cover the head injury. So, no need to change the shirt(better than the word "top" I was using) because of that. So, if blood was found on the shirt that only means she received the blow(through whatever means)while wearing the shirt. That would make sense no matter who did it. If there is blood, it only does not make sense that JR or PR would lie about whether she had it on or not. If there is no blood, then you wonder how there is no blood and you still wonder why parents would give conflicting information about how their six year old daughter was put to bed, esp on the last night she was alive.
...jmo...
Chiquita71
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,835
- Reaction score
- 2
Quote Respect DeeDee
"Make it look like an intruder tried to kidnap her and then kill her because you called the police"
Yes! In your statement I have my answer as to "why call LE at all?" Why, when a ransom note says over and over again in plain english: do as we say or your daughter will die. The note is written TO John and John is given the "power": it is in your hands now John.
What does he do? Tells Patsy to call 911. They call 911. If the people who took my love told me that I had a 100% chance of getting them back if I did what they wanted me to: that is what I would do.
The Ramsey's did kill JonBenet. They killed her when they did not follow the instructions of her kidnappers.
After finding JB in the cellar, after a few days, when the Rs had time to really know what was in the note: do you think the (IDI Ramsey's) thought: gee, do you think she was dead in the basement before we chose to call LE or because they were watching us and we called LE they killed her?
Or is their theory she was never really kidnapped, that she was in their house(somewhere)the whole time. Do the Ramsey's think their daughter was ever kidnapped, I guess I am asking.
Are they saying that the kidnappers were in the basement or somewhere close with an alive JB and because they were being watched the kidnappers saw that they had contacted LE and so they killed JB and then either left her in the cellar and then escaped out of the house or killed her where "the two gentlemen were watching over her" and then brought her to the basement?
...jmo...
madeleine
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,972
- Reaction score
- 88
It's been speculated that she actually wore the red shirt when she was killed,the one found in the sink,iirc.
madeleine
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2008
- Messages
- 4,972
- Reaction score
- 88
Quote Respect DeeDee
"Make it look like an intruder tried to kidnap her and then kill her because you called the police"
Yes! In your statement I have my answer as to "why call LE at all?" Why, when a ransom note says over and over again in plain english: do as we say or your daughter will die. The note is written TO John and John is given the "power": it is in your hands now John.
What does he do? Tells Patsy to call 911. They call 911. If the people who took my love told me that I had a 100% chance of getting them back if I did what they wanted me to: that is what I would do.
The Ramsey's did kill JonBenet. They killed her when they did not follow the instructions of her kidnappers.
After finding JB in the cellar, after a few days, when the Rs had time to really know what was in the note: do you think the (IDI Ramsey's) thought: gee, do you think she was dead in the basement before we chose to call LE or because they were watching us and we called LE they killed her?
Or is their theory she was never really kidnapped, that she was in their house(somewhere)the whole time. Do the Ramsey's think their daughter was ever kidnapped, I guess I am asking.
Are they saying that the kidnappers were in the basement or somewhere close with an alive JB and because they were being watched the kidnappers saw that they had contacted LE and so they killed JB and then either left her in the cellar and then escaped out of the house or killed her where "the two gentlemen were watching over her" and then brought her to the basement?
...jmo...
@bold
That was the initial plan yes,IMO.
Chiquita71
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,835
- Reaction score
- 2
Hello madeleine and WS: Quote Respect madeleine:
So...did, does, do the Ramsey's feel upset, responsible, curious, re: the idea that if or maybe if they would have not called LE Jonbenet might, maybe be alive? In statements made by PR and JR they say on that morning they (paraphrased)"ran around wondering what to do" Patsy was "out of her head" and didn't know what to do. Why not do what the ransom note said: for a few minutes. Take a breather, and let's think about this for a moment. But they said or IIRC PR said previous to calling LE she had only read a few lines or a small portion of the ransom note.
John said he had them out on the floor so her could read them better, quicker but as this is going on Patsy is on the phone near enough to him to(paraphrase)"see John reading the note in his underwear."
What made them not take the ransom note seriously, to heart? Would they say it was because they panicked?
...jmo...
Ravyn
New Member
But the whole thing about JR reading the RN his fingerprints was not found on it no where but yes I believe the plan was for the kidnappers to kill JB cause the R's didn't follow the instructions to the letter...
For the kidnappers to have killed JB BECAUSE her parents disobeyed the note and called 911 - there are two BIG problems with this.
One- that meant they'd have had to kill her after 6 am (when the parents called 911) when it was getting light out and the parents were awake and walking around the house. Terribly foolish to risk getting out of the house then, right?
Two- the condition of the body indicated death took place around 12 hours before she was "found". The autopsy agrees with this- the state of rigor and the digestive tract contents all put a time of death around midnight- 1 am. 6 HOURS before the 911 call. So there was no way she was killed in retaliation after the 911 call.
One- that meant they'd have had to kill her after 6 am (when the parents called 911) when it was getting light out and the parents were awake and walking around the house. Terribly foolish to risk getting out of the house then, right?
Two- the condition of the body indicated death took place around 12 hours before she was "found". The autopsy agrees with this- the state of rigor and the digestive tract contents all put a time of death around midnight- 1 am. 6 HOURS before the 911 call. So there was no way she was killed in retaliation after the 911 call.
Ravyn
New Member
But if the R's need a reason for her to be found dead then it will go back to the RN...And I still believe they was going to move her somewhere out of the house but something changed that plan and there for we have JR saying it was an inside job....
Ravyn
New Member
Now I read here in an other thread awhile back ago the in the R's interviews the LE brought up the bike the JR said he got PR for Christmas about where was it so I'm really wondering if it was really got for JAR....