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as far as I know,the Stines were not called.and that's downright weird,IMO,as they were the last outside the family (supposedly) to see JB alive.yet they weren't there.
IMO,they were called BEFORE the 911 call,and they may even be complicit,in some manner,in the crime.recall the photo of them on the deck w the R's in MI,where they were happy and all smiles? the one Patsy felt a need to make up a story about in DOI?? someone captured their true demeanor,and it was not one of grief nor worry.

also recall SS crawling the web in he days and weeks after the murder...what was she so worried about???

and SS was also the one to answer the intercom (without opening the door) the night of the party on 23rd..the same night JB was found crying and saying she didn't feel pretty;the same night of the weird 911 hang-up call.

SS was also said to be very defensive twds others who didn't believe the R's were innocent.recall JB's photographer?? the one who posted on forums for justice? I can't think of her name right now.but anyway...as far as SS and the Stines go??...

::smells a rat::
 
The Stines were not there. That was odd, given the fact that they became the R's "guardians" after the murder. Mrs. Stine was Susan, but it is unlikely JR would have mistakenly called her "Suzanne".

HOWEVER--- there are some who think that the reason the Stines were not called that morning with other friends is because they were called during the night right after it happened. They had LEFT by the time the Rs made the 911 call. Some possible reasons for this would be if the Stine's son had been an overnight guest at the R home (he was friends with BR) and possibly he and BR were somehow involved with what happened to JB. This does explain a lot of the Stine's behavior after the murder. But nothing at this point was ever done to link the boy to the crime or even being at the Rs house that night. I'd love to see DNA samples from him- the "unknown male" does not have to be an ADULT male. DNA can't be "aged" (with the exception of sperm, which by its nature implies someone who has reached puberty).
 
I agree that there's something odd about the Stine's role. In regard to the possibility that their son was there - do you think there was a risk that Burke could have said something in an interview? Or could they be sure that he would only give direct answers - ie if he wasn't directly asked if there was anyone there, he wouldn't volunteer the information?
 
I think so,too,Deedee...that they were there,and then they left.SS was worried others might have found out about it,info leaked..etc....and so she was on the web every day,trying to see what,if anything..was out there.
I agree that DS might have been there,too,to spend the night w BR and go on the trip w them the next day.
But Patsy's guilty behavior,IMO,makes me think neither BR nor DS had anything to do w the actual murder.(though I would still like to know the dna results as well!).

the only other scenario I can think of is..the Stine's came over to the R's house after they returned from the White's,(it was Christmas,after all) and whatever happened,happened while they were there.(not that they were involved in the actual murder).but IMO,they know more than they are saying.
 
Actually, thinking it through - if the Stine's son was there, and the boys slept through JB's murder, I guess its possible that one of the Stines could have picked up their son whilst he slept, and Burke may not have woken. Then the Rs could have told Burke that the Stine's boy went home not long after he (Burke) was asleep, and so Burke may not have thought any more about it.

I often think about JRs comment along the lines of: "There were a lot of people around at 3am". "People" may have been the Stines. I do also wonder about a point that a WS poster brought up yonks ago, about JR working for Lockheed and how corporations like that have procedures in place in the event that one of their executives is threatened. Why didn't JR activate that instead of calling the police (if the IDI story is true)?
 
TinaD said:
I agree that there's something odd about the Stine's role. In regard to the possibility that their son was there - do you think there was a risk that Burke could have said something in an interview? Or could they be sure that he would only give direct answers - ie if he wasn't directly asked if there was anyone there, he wouldn't volunteer the information?
Click to expand...
I think he was coached on how to respond,most definitely.for instance,he said a secret wouldn't be a secret once you told someone about it.
his behavior was odd,overall.like drawing a pic of his family,minus JB..so soon.asking no questions about the murder,and not appearing to be afraid.(makes me think he knows more than he was saying....).
and something about playing nintendo when he wanted to get away from it all..like he retreated into his own little world.at one point,he changed the subject and asked the interviewer about his watch.weird.
 
TinaD said:
Actually, thinking it through - if the Stine's son was there, and the boys slept through JB's murder, I guess its possible that one of the Stines could have picked up their son whilst he slept, and Burke may not have woken. Then the Rs could have told Burke that the Stine's boy went home not long after he (Burke) was asleep, and so Burke may not have thought any more about it.
Click to expand...
good point.
I often think about JRs comment along the lines of: "There were a lot of people around at 3am". "People" may have been the Stines.
Click to expand...
I agree.

I do also wonder about a point that a WS poster brought up yonks ago, about JR working for Lockheed and how corporations like that have procedures in place in the event that one of their executives is threatened. Why didn't JR activate that instead of calling the police (if the IDI story is true)?
Click to expand...
I recall that,too.only conclusion I can come to is,(along w all the other evidence),is it just isn't true..no real threat=no need to alert Lockheed.
 
eleven said:
Whoa...that totally was not a shot, or anything negative towards you AT ALL. You know alot about this case, that's no secret. Re-reading my post, I am stumped as to why you would think my comment was anything less than a compliment.
Click to expand...

Sorry. Private life's got me on edge right now.
 
BR's comment to the psychologist about "wanting to get on with his life" coming so soon after his sister's death is also strange. BR fits into this puzzle in some way. Not sure how, but he has a part in this play.
 
I really wonder if BR fits in cause he wasn't asleep when this happen and JR was the one that basically said we taking BR over to the White's...Why? I think BR knew who done this and this person had to make sure BR didn't mess everything up...And this is going back to the one that distant themselves from this..
 
Ravyn said:
I really wonder if BR fits in cause he wasn't asleep when this happen and JR was the one that basically said we taking BR over to the White's...Why? I think BR knew who done this and this person had to make sure BR didn't mess everything up...And this is going back to the one that distant themselves from this..
Click to expand...

Maybe that's the reason Fleet started to "act strange"?
Was it because of something that Burke told him about that night and he realized JR was lying to LE re JB being asleep when they arrived home?

1+1=2
1.Burke said clearly that JB was awake
2.Even John said that he read to her.
 
Now 1 and 2 are FACTS,no myths invented by RDI's.
Of course IDI's could argue that both Burke AND JR were confused :rolleyes: and didn't remember what happened exactly. :rolleyes: hence JR changing his statement,errr,lying.
 
I have no idea who the author of this blog this but all I can say is WOAH.He/she must be a mind reader.I couldn't have said it better.

http://www.***********.blogspot.com/2006/11/john-ramsey-interview.html

Throughout the interview with John Ramsey, he keeps smiling. It wasn't a genuine, I'm- happy-smile. It wasn't a nervous smile. It was a strange, deceptive smile. It was inappropriate in timing -- almost as if the smile is expressing his true feelings -- that he is so happy 48 Hours is doing this show because they are pointing the finger away from him. It's like he is so thrilled with it, he can't contain it. I find John Ramsey making this smile throughout the majority of his interview. It bothers me more than a little. There is no logical explanation for it.

An innocent man would not be joyous thinking about finding the killer of their daughter. He would more than likely be mad at the whole scenario, tired of being treated so badly by the media that there would be hints of anger - a truly felt emotion -- that would not flee in time upon reflection. There would be a desire to get resolve -- to find the true killer - because it would be haunting to know that killer is still out there potentially killing other children. None of these emotions would make a true victim of such a heinous crime smile. So, when I don't see any normal expressions -- and I see expressions that are out of place -- I'm on alert.


John Ramsey says, "We should have just stood right up there in the beginning and said, 'Okay, charge me.You think I’m guilty? Charge me, or clear me,'" John Ramsey says.

I find this statement arrogant now -- after the fact -- when he knows they have nothing to charge him with at this point and time. He says this at a time when 48 Hours is focusing their efforts on the people who believe the Ramseys are innocent (Tracey, Smit, Demuth), when they show a DNA report that is supposed to (but doesn't for me) remove suspicion from the Ramseys. It's an easy time to be so smug -- when all the fingers are pointing away from you!

Tracey also clearly shows his bias on the show when he says something to the effect if the media can convict them (the Ramseys), then surely I can use the media to clear them! Tracey's investigation is clearly biased.


In Tracey's British documentary of the case, Tracey asks the Ramseys..."Did you have anything to do with the death of JonBenet?" Watch John Ramsey's face. He shakes his head up and down in a yes motion. Then he sighs.

Don't you find that perplexing??

Then his conscious mind appears to kick in, and he shakes his head in a side to side "no" motion before he speaks..."That is the most difficult question I have ever been asked...ah...I would have given my life for JonBenet and I regret...I will regret...(he continues on)...

What does Ramsey regret? Why does shake his head yes, at first and then no before he answers? Why the inconsistency? He does this again later on, too.


During the same question from number 4 above, Patsy Ramsey says no, shakes her head no -- consistently unlike John, yet then she smiles really oddly. The timing and behavior of her smile doesn't fit. It isn't consistent.

If you were WRONGLY accused of killing your daughter, could you EVER smile when you talked about it? Ever? I think not. If you were trying to "play cool" and hide something, you might.


Tracey says that in an e-mail Karr referred to Patsy's mother by her nickname, Neddie. This got Tracey excited. John Ramsey says, "He referred to Patsy’s mother’s nickname: Neddie. And that was unusual that someone would know that. I went to a book that we’d written about it. To see if we ever mentioned that in the book. And we had not," Ramsey recalls. "That added fuel to the fire in my mind."

I ask you -- how would the killer find this out? Was it written on the walls of the house? How does that in any way link John Karr? I don't make that connection. John Karr was obsessed with the Ramseys so he may have unearthed it at some point -- but that doesn't mean he killed JonBenet.


It really disturbed me when John Ramsey said (about Karr) "He was so abused and vilified and convicted in the media that I started to feel sorry for the guy, which is a bizarre feeling," Ramsey says. "Having been through what we went through, I was gonna be the last guy that leaped out there and said, 'Aha! This is the guy!'”

If you just potentially laid your eyes on someone who you believed might have killed your daughter -- do you honestly think you'd feel sorry for the killer because the media harassed and accused him -- after he made a public confession?

I think not. I know not! A true victim would be mad, furious, hoping for justice -- but would never feel sorry for the criminal --especially a criminal who could have killed his daughter and who confessed!!!

This statement by John Ramsey is exceptionally scary!!! It's inconsistent, out of place, and definitely, hands-down out of character for an innocent man. It is consistent with a man who knows who killed his daughter -- and knows the killer isn't running around out in the world somewhere. Then and only then would someone feel sympathy for Karr.


48 Hours goes on..."This was the biggest effort to find a suspect since really your daughter was killed," Moriarty remarked to John Ramsey.

"Oh yeah," he agrees. And he acknowledges that he had his hopes up. "I mean I was grateful that the effort was going on and I was hopeful that this, in fact would be the conclusion."

Notice Ramsey's grin. The timing is just odd. The pain of seeing a killer, or a potentially killer, would be immense. Most people whose daughter was killed, even recollecting the Karr situation, even when Karr was released -- would still feel immense pain. Why isn't John Ramsey feeling that pain??


48 Hours goes on... Moriarty asks John Ramsey..."John be honest. He’s obsessed with your daughter and your family. Are you at all concerned that he could show up here?"

Ramsey shakes his head side-to-side as if he is saying no. Then he says "I" as he then moves his head in a yes motion. You can see his conscious thought kicking in... "The thought has gone through my mind, absolutely and you know that you can’t live your life in fear. But you know, we tend to be careful," he replies.





:clap:
 
Something that always bothers me is the vagueness about whether John checked that the doors were locked. If he did, then there should have been signs of forced entry. If he didn't, what sort of millionaire with little children would put so little premium on his family and his wealth that he wouldn't check that his home was secure?
 
I caught a bit of the psychic show Haunting Evidence on TruTv with the Jon Benet case featured. Unfortunately, I fell asleep during one of the commercials. What did the psychics think about RDI vs. IDI. From what I remember, they were firmly IDI, right? I am pretty sure the episode was a repeat so who knows when it will air again.

Nevermind: I see there is another thread on this topic:
 
I have a general question about the crime scene:

In the pictures of the downstairs bathroom there seems to be a gray clothing item on the floor next to the disabled toilet. What was it?
 
Theonly1 said:
I caught a bit of the psychic show Haunting Evidence on TruTv with the Jon Benet case featured. Unfortunately, I fell asleep during one of the commercials. What did the psychics think about RDI vs. IDI. From what I remember, they were firmly IDI, right? I am pretty sure the episode was a repeat so who knows when it will air again.

Nevermind: I see there is another thread on this topic:
Click to expand...

I think I saw it on you tube.
Deffo IDI.
Will look for link.
 
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mzr9jQBBfo&feature=related"]YouTube - Haunting Evidence: JonBenet Ramsey - part 1 of 5[/nomedia]
 
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