Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[IrishMist]

Trying to use his mental illness to prove that he murdered the children is the problem here. As you said, not all teens with mental illness commit murder. In fact, I don't believe that it can be proven that all murderers were mentally ill as teenagers. I even question your statement that all teen murderers were mentally ill. All teens are "troubled." It is simply a part of being a teenager.

As I have said before, his past mental illness should have made him a person of interest, but the mental illness is not proof of anything other than he has had mental problems in the past. The prosecution needed to present some sort of evidence (other than the ramblings of a mentally challenged youth) to show Damien's guilt. They relied on the "Satanic ritual killing" (which was not proven) and a lot of innuendo, including bringing up his past mental health issues.

Therefore, using his past mental illness as proof of his crime is faulty logic to say the least, and IMO is unethical. That's my problem with the continued harping on his past mental health issues - that and the fact that, because he was a minor at the time, the records should not have been released. They should have remained sealed.

I "thanked" this post, but am quoting it now because I believe it bears repeating.

I also have a feeling it will *need* to be repeated several more times before we're through.

 

[Cappuccino]

Who gives a crap? Damien could have been completely off his onion for all that matters, he was far from the only person in West Memphis who had mental problems. It is not evidence against him, and I don't know why nons can't see that - unless maybe they're so desparate they will grab anything.

There is no evidence linking this specific individual to this specific crime. Now, what do you want to do - arrest the nearest mentally ill person every time a crime happens?

 

[SheBoss]

Fascinating! How was Damien Echols misdiagnosed to reduce his death penalty sentence before the murders even occurred?

Reread all of the psych notes from his psychiatric admissions.
Reread: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

Please cite a LEGITIMATE reference that states that psychotic patients always have "outbursts".

This is truly terrifying. Again, I can't understand how all of this hasn't manifested itself during 18 year of incarceration. A schedule and wifely support wouldn't be able to override all of this IMO. If this is indeed the case, I have to believe he still is mentally ill and now he's walking the streets - still unmedicated.

I do want to edit my post to say that it should bear notice that even these psych records show he was passive, pleasant, and caused no trouble. Far from being the violent teen that people want to make him.

 

[Fishmonger Dave]

Who gives a crap? Damien could have been completely off his onion for all that matters, he was far from the only person in West Memphis who had mental problems. It is not evidence against him, and I don't know why nons can't see that - unless maybe they're so desperate they will grab anything.

There is no evidence linking this specific individual to this specific crime. Now, what do you want to do - arrest the nearest mentally ill person every time a crime happens?

I was going to post a lengthy response citing the sex offenders in West Memphis at the time (including one who "guessed" the boys had been tied with their own shoelaces), or Terry Hobbs' history working in a slaughterhouse from a young age and sexually assaulting his neighbor, or the number of people receiving SS disability on "psych" grounds.... but Cappuccino said it all...

There is no evidence linking this specific individual to this specific crime. Now, what do you want to do - arrest the nearest mentally ill person every time a crime happens?

 

[SheBoss]

Snipped from George Woods Affidavit:

"30. Mr. Echols reported that the intense shift between depression and mania “literally drove me crazy.” He remembered that “everything hurt, from the smell of water to green grass, brown grass.” He was exquisitely sensitive to “the way people smelled” and “the smell of water.” He described manic episodes when his “brain rolled, like a TV that is not adjusted.” He believed his brain rolled when it rained or when he was near a large body of water. The change of seasons had a strong effect on him also, especially fall and winter, and made “his brain roll constantly.”"

Why would someone who was "exquisitely sensitive to the smell of water" be hanging out by a creek, kill some kids and put their bodies/clothes in the creek?

 

[PeteJ]

I seriously doubt that there has never been a case where someone was either illegally or unnecessarily kept (maybe not in restraints, but kept nonetheless) in a mental hospital. I am not saying that every psych nurse, tech or doctor does this, but to imply that it never happens because it is unethical is, IMO, simply not true. Also, to assume that a social worker, truly concerned about a child's welfare, wouldn't try to convince someone, if even a psychiatrist or psychologist or some other mental health professional, to exaggerate symptoms so said child could be housed and nourished is unrealistic. And to believe that every mental health professional always acts ethically is likewise unrealistic - unless the members of the mental health profession aren't human, that is.

Kept in a locked psychiatric unit IS being restrained. To do the unethical things you suggest would take a huge conspiracy...it just does not happen.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Kept in a locked psychiatric unit IS being restrained. To do the unethical things you suggest would take a huge conspiracy...it just does not happen.

Really? Never?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/unjustif.htm

"Our investigation has found that thousands of adolescents, children, and adults have been hospitalized for psychiatric treatment they didn't need; that hospitals hire bounty hunters to kidnap patients with mental health insurance; that patients are kept against their will until their insurance benefits run out; that psychiatrists are being pressured by the hospitals to increase profit; that hospitals 'infiltrate' schools by paying kickbacks to school counselors who deliver students; that bonuses are paid to hospital employees, including psychiatrists, for keeping the hospital beds filled; and that military dependents are being targeted for their generous mental health benefits. I could go on, but you get the picture"


"...mental patients advocates say many adolescents in private hospitals are not seriously mentally ill, but merely rebellious. By holding the adolescents, who often dislike hospitalization, advocates say private hospitals reap profits and please parents. ... Some county mental health officials and psychiatrists at private hospitals acknowledge there are hospitalized adolescents who, ideally, shouldn't be there. ... 'It distresses me to see kids in these facilities; it distressesme to see the profits going on,'


"The confusing aspect about this is that many adolescents are irritable, aggressive, and impulsive because they are upset about their life circumstances. In recent years some of these teenagers have found their way into psychiatric hospitals, labeled with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder and placed on medications. Some psychiatric hospitals made a practice of admitting adolescents in distress, using the diagnosis of bipolar disorder inappropriately in order to increase their billing to insurance companies. This practice was so widespread that the federal government finally intervened, charging the hospitals with fraud and assessing fines of millions of dollars. Many of these children did not have bipolar disorder at all, but were acting inappropriately because of stresses in their families, with their friends, and at school." Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at Seacoast Mental Health Center in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, in his book The Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York, 2000), pages 13-14. Dr. Drummond graduated from Tufts University School of Medicine and was trained in psychiatry at Harvard University.

Apparently this needs to be said again.

 

[Pensfan]

The only way that acute care psychiatric hospitals remain open and pay their bills is that they are non-for-profit entities and they receive government funds for their university teaching programs (to teach medical students, nursing students, psychology students, and etc...) and other state and federal funding. This occurs because the majority of Americans have inadequate or zero health insurance. Psych hospitals do not generate revenue by headhunting patients because a huge percentage of psych patients cannot pay for some or all of their services. In addition, there has not been a shortage of psych patients since before the Civil War. There is no need to “hunt” for psych patients needing admission because there is a long line of them waiting to be admitted.

For an learning example, see page 6 of the first reference which describes the funding for the state of Texas’ acute care psychiatric facilities. Notice that that EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT of the funds comes from the state or federal government. This is similar to all other states.

See the second reference to understand that there are VERY few acute care psych hospitals beds.

There are only 5,424 psychiatric hospital beds for the Texas population of 25,000,000.

Try to understand that there is NOT a shortage of patients to fill the extremely limited amount of psychiatric hospital beds. Only very sick individuals are admitted because of the shortage of psych hospital beds/facilities.
http://www.lbb.state.tx.us/Health_Services/Mental Hospitals in Texas Primer Complete Report 0211.pdf

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...DrVIey&sig=AHIEtbTM7lmwLpdRvB0ys6CBlgDfSiQPPg

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Just out of curiousity, where are Jason Baldwin's mental health records? Surely there must be loads of evidence pointing to the fact that he was psychotic as well, right? (insert eyeroll)

 

[SheBoss]

Pensfan,

I believe I read that you are a pysch nurse. Can you please tell me your take on Wood's affadavit above? My specific questions would be, judging by what Wood's is saying, do you think Damien could be cured of his issues by having a structured environment as well as a wife who believes in him and fights for him (and no medication whatsoever)? And - while he clearly had/has problems, Wood's is quick to point out that he has shown no violence and is rather passive. Could he be passive in one setting then freak out and murder 3 boys for no reason in another? I realize you would only be speculating with all these questions, but with your background, you should know better than me, I would think. TIA!

Please consider that he said in the affidavit (I also quoted in a previous post) that water, green grass and brown grass make him hurt. He was in the woods and beside a creek. It looks to me that if all that bothers him, this is NOT where he would hang out. But, if he did, could all of this caused a violent reaction?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

From Wood's affadavit:

Mr. Echols reported that the intense shift between depression and mania “literally drove me crazy.” He remembered that “everything hurt, from the smell of water to green grass, brown grass.” He was exquisitely sensitive to “the way people smelled” and “the smell of water.”

Straight out of The Fall Of The House Of Usher. And yet, not one mental health professional picked up on that? Despite the fact that they were "treating" a kid who was an avid reader, highly imaginative, and with leanings toward the darker side of things?

 

[Pensfan]

Pensfan,

I believe I read that you are a pysch nurse. Can you please tell me your take on Wood's affadavit above? My specific questions would be, judging by what Wood's is saying, do you think Damien could be cured of his issues by having a structured environment as well as a wife who believes in him and fights for him (and no medication whatsoever)? And - while he clearly had/has problems, Wood's is quick to point out that he has shown no violence and is rather passive. Could he be passive in one setting then freak out and murder 3 boys for no reason in another? I realize you would only be speculating with all these questions, but with your background, you should know better than me, I would think. TIA!

Please consider that he said in the affidavit (I also quoted in a previous post) that water, green grass and brown grass make him hurt. He was in the woods and beside a creek. It looks to me that if all that bothers him, this is NOT where he would hang out. But, if he did, could all of this caused a violent reaction?

According to Dr. Woods affidavit and the mental health notes found on the callahan site, Damien Echols has Manic Depression and schizophrenia. In vivo imaging and postmortem neurochemical studies have confirmed that there are microscopic and macroscopic abnormalities. There are also anatomical abnormalities in the brains of schizophrenics. At this time, there are no cures for these disorders however, the most profound symptoms are treatable in most patients.

Having a healthy family support system and appropriate community support are vitally important for schizophrenics’ and bipolar individuals’ long term mental health/stability.

There is not enough documentation available to determine if these were olfactory hallucination and if these were frequent/consistent delusions (Did he frequently/consistently experience pain which was caused by grass and water?).

It would seem logical that someone with an expressed dislike of water and grass would avoid water and grass, but one has to remember that logic cannot always be applied to symptoms of psychosis and Damien had many documented symptoms of psychosis.

To answer your question r/t "violent reaction/freaking out", realize that it is impossible to predict the behavior of psychotic individuals.

 

[SheBoss]

According to Dr. Woods affidavit and the mental health notes found on the callahan site, Damien Echols has Manic Depression and schizophrenia. In vivo imaging and postmortem neurochemical studies have confirmed that there are microscopic and macroscopic abnormalities. There are also anatomical abnormalities in the brains of schizophrenics. At this time, there are no cures for these disorders however, the most profound symptoms are treatable in most patients. I assume you mean with medication, which Damien is not getting unless he started on some since his release or he lied to the judge at the AP hearing and he is on medication.

Having a healthy family support system and appropriate community support are vitally important for schizophrenics’ and bipolar individuals’ long term mental health/stability. I wonder if this would apply to the structure and scheduled atmosphere that is death row? I don't believe he ever had a "healthy" family support system.

There is not enough documentation available to determine if these were olfactory hallucination and if these were frequent/consistent delusions (Did he frequently/consistently experience pain which was caused by grass and water?).

It would seem logical that someone with an expressed dislike of water and grass would avoid water and grass, but one has to remember that logic cannot always be applied to symptoms of psychosis and Damien had many documented symptoms of psychosis.

To answer your question r/t "violent reaction/freaking out", realize that it is impossible to predict the behavior of psychotic individuals.

Thank you for the info!

 

[PeteJ]

Really? Never?

If you have never worked as a nurse, or social worker or psych tech or psychiatrist you would not understand that when a patient is on a locked psych unit there must be 50-75 who work there who know his/her(the patients) full history including why they are there. It is their job to know all this and it is all in their files or charts. Lies in medical records would be libelous. No one would risk all their years of college and work history to make up a lie so a kid could have a place to sleep and if they did they'd be reported by the 50+ people who work with them. It is actually a lawsuit to be held in a psych unit against your will if you are not a danger to yourself or others. Strict criteria. Report about each and every patient is given every shift to ALL workers on the unit including why they are there and what is to be accomplished while on the unit. There are no secrets. Getting admitted takes two MD's (in an emergency) to certify that the person is a danger to himself or others. Non emergency still requires this certification. That certification is a legal document. No psychiatrist would waste his 16 years post high school education to lie. No one but a psychiatrist can admit to a psych unit. Not social workers and not psychologists. I've been in the business 30 years and have never seen some one admitted for fake reasons.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

If you have never worked as a nurse, or social worker or psych tech or psychiatrist you would not understand that when a patient is on a locked psych unit there must be 50-75 who work there who know his/her(the patients) full history including why they are there. It is their job to know all this and it is all in their files or charts. Lies in medical records would be libelous. No one would risk all their years of college and work history to make up a lie so a kid could have a place to sleep and if they did they'd be reported by the 50+ people who work with them. It is actually a lawsuit to be held in a psych unit against your will if you are not a danger to yourself or others. Strict criteria. Report about each and every patient is given every shift to ALL workers on the unit including why they are there and what is to be accomplished while on the unit. There are no secrets. Getting admitted takes two MD's (in an emergency) to certify that the person is a danger to himself or others. Non emergency still requires this certification. That certification is a legal document. No psychiatrist would waste his 16 years post high school education to lie. No one but a psychiatrist can admit to a psych unit. Not social workers and not psychologists. I've been in the business 30 years and have never seen some one admitted for fake reasons.

In case you don't know it, teachers are professionals, too. We have to have at least a Bachelor's degree, and we have to constantly update our training. If we do something unethical or illegal, we risk losing our certification, which means losing our livelihood - for life! Yet, teachers on occasion do unethical and illegal things. You can only speak for yourself and what you know. I've never personally known a teacher who did something unethical or illegal, but I would never presume to speak for the entire profession. You seem to think that, because you know of no one in the mental health profession who has falsified a statement to get a patient admitted, for whatever reason, that such things don't happen. Evidence to refute your position has previously been posted.

 

[Pensfan]

This is truly terrifying. Again, I can't understand how all of this hasn't manifested itself during 18 year of incarceration. A schedule and wifely support wouldn't be able to override all of this IMO. If this is indeed the case, I have to believe he still is mentally ill and now he's walking the streets - still unmedicated.

I do want to edit my post to say that it should bear notice that even these psych records show he was passive, pleasant, and caused no trouble. Far from being the violent teen that people want to make him.

Where did you read this? Please cite a reference.

Here is the SWORN affidavit which describes very frightening things about Damien's behavior.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

Damien Echol's medical records did not state that he was always passive, pleasant and didn't cause trouble. This was what Dr. Wood's recorded about Damien's behavior during his interview with Damien.

Dr. Woods stated Damien had a CHILDHOOD free of violence.

The medical records state that when Damien was admitted as 17 or 18 year old (not in childhood), the other psychiatric patients were afraid of him, his behavior was unpredictable, he growled at the other patients, his fingernails were sharpened to points, he had tried to gouge out another student's eye. He threatened to kill numerous people and eat his dad. At one point in his psychiatric hospitalization, his behavior was so frightening that HE HAD TO BE PLACED IN ISOLATION AWAY FROM THE OTHER PATIENTS FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK.

In addition, Damien stated that he was filled with rage, sometimes he "blew up", and the only way to resolve his rage was to "hurt someone".
http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/050.jpg

 

[Cappuccino]

Yeah, that makes him guilty. He was definitely the only mad person in West Memphis in 1993 - one look at the Jivepuppi site can tell you that. Lol.

 

[claudicici]

...speaking of jivepuppi maybe Damien's demons need to be reviewed....
even though like Cappuccino said it doesn't matter how insane Damien was if there is NO evidence that he was anywhere near the boys May 5th,1993....
....still an interesting read though IMO

http://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_2.html

 

[PeteJ]

In case you don't know it, teachers are professionals, too. We have to have at least a Bachelor's degree, and we have to constantly update our training. If we do something unethical or illegal, we risk losing our certification, which means losing our livelihood - for life! Yet, teachers on occasion do unethical and illegal things. You can only speak for yourself and what you know. I've never personally known a teacher who did something unethical or illegal, but I would never presume to speak for the entire profession. You seem to think that, because you know of no one in the mental health profession who has falsified a statement to get a patient admitted, for whatever reason, that such things don't happen. Evidence to refute your position has previously been posted.

I never said anything about any other profession. I have much respect for teachers and feel that they are not paid enough for their very difficult job.
Still the psychiatric professional job (RN, psychiatrist etc) is different than yours in that they are under constant observation by many, many government entities..Board of Nursing or Medical Board,CMS, etc as well as peers who would report unethical behavior in a heartbeat. CMS does routine chart and records audits. Yes there are nurses or psychiatrists who do things that are unethical, however, it usually doesn't have anything to do with falsely imprisoning patients. There are so many patients who present themselves for admission that are very sick but still get turned away because the criteria for admission is so strict. Check it out for yourself, call a medical board and ask how many complaints they get against psychiatrists for falsely imprisoning patients and after investigation was the complaint valid? Every state has a medical board. Because ultimately, falsely imprisoning a patient falls on the psychiatrist who accepted the admission.