Supreme Court Nominee #2

[EuTuCroquet?]

Alcoholism is a progressive disease. "Functional alcoholic" is only temporary. It may be a lengthy period of time that someone appears functiinal, but it always progresses. I don't know if BK is currently an alcoholic, but I have zero doubt in my mind that he hasn't come to terms with, nor is he being honest with himself, let alone anyone else, about his excessive drinking habits.

Yes. This. And even “functional drunk” is a misnomer, to a certain extent.

Which I think also goes directly to your point, too, imo.

Just because someone can drink excessively and still hold a job, for example, doesn’t mean their lives are functional, that their minds and judgement aren’t affected by the drugs they’re using to an abusive degree, etc., imo.

“Functional” is the reason many alcoholics (and those who love/support them) internalize to convince themselves they aren’t problem drinkers. That’s the disease talking. They have a medically substantiated physical and/or mental dependency on a substance.

It’s believable to say Kavanaugh might not drink like he used to in high school. Or that he doesn’t, currently, have a drinking problem just because he might not drink like that anymore.

But, weighing his answers and behavior last week with those possibilities, he speaks more like someone who might still be struggling with alcohol.

Additionally, these possible realities are a far cry from the blanket assumption that he never had a serious drinking problem, never drank to excess, never made horribly wrong and possibly illegal decisions while drinking, never made bad decisions to deny or cover up the actions he made afterward, etc.

All that to say ...

TL;DR:

Just because an alcoholic knows, deep inside, they are a good person when they don’t drink doesn’t mean they never do terrible things when they do, imo.

It doesn’t mean they won’t go to great lengths to deny and attempt to bury — to themselves as well as to others — the things that happen when they drink.

Alcoholism is indeed a cunning and baffling disease. Like some other of us here, we noticed his deflection and “quasi” denials to direct questions.

There was a telltale belligerance to his answers, and an unrealistic level of denial.

“I like beer. I don’t know if you do. Do you like beer, Senator, or not?”

Translation:

Hey, everyone drinks! They’re hypocrites if they say they don’t!

That’s a lie I told myself, too, from high school into my 30s. I was an extremely highly functioning alcoholic. High achiever. Great career.

Eventually, 10-plus years ago, I removed the drinking. I’m still successful. Never lost my home, a single job, etc. etc. etc. I don’t drink, but I’m still an alcoholic. Always will be. I’m in recovery. I can’t drink.

The reason we recognize these lies is because we’ve said them. Or we’ve heard them for years from “beer drunks,” from vodka drunks, from addicts and alcoholics. All of them. We’ve lived with them. Worked with them. Married them. Divorced them. Gone to school with them. Raised them. Or they raised us.

That’s why it’s obvious.

Allllll this is MOO.

 

[mickey2942]

Hoping people can continue to focus on the issue, the investigation, and not veer into the negativity of attacking other people's posts, or political mudslinging.

I wrote this to remind myself to stay on the topic, rather than to get this most intriguing thread shut down. Kudos to all for mostly staying on topic.

The painful issue of sexual assault is no joke, it is obvious the Dr. Ford has lived with very painful memories. And it is also important to acknowledge that Kavanaugh has denied that he participated in this situation.

I wonder what the FBI will find...should they stray from this particular situation, if other women come forward?

Looks like Mr. Judge is getting his memory back...
Mark Judge willing to cooperate with investigation, lawyer says - CNNPolitics

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The focus on BK's yearbook became important because he LIED about what was in it. He lied about Renate Alumnus, Boof and Devils Triangle and everyone knows it. He is a compulsive liar and does not belong on the Supreme Court. Lying about a situation has gotten more polititians into trouble than what they were lying about. cough <Clinton> cough

I didn't watch live coverage of testimony and have seen only excerpts covered by CNN or NBC. I have also not seen either of the high school yearbooks being referenced. Therefore, I have no way of knowing if either individual is lying about the content of their yearbooks. In the grand scheme of life, I don't place much significance on entries in someone's high school yearbook.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Who knows if it is? If this man is an alcoholic and has been a prominent high level judge, it is not working. The background checks started long ago, well before his nomination.

Right. But it’s also true that the committee didn’t get all the reports. And they received tens of thousands just hours before he was to be nominated.

Not all background checks in the years prior would have been as thorough, nor would they have disclosed as much, imo.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

MSNBC video report (just over 7 minutes):

LA Times: FBI's Kavanaugh probe won't end with Ford's allegation

The Los Angeles Times reports that the FBI will investigate Kavanaugh beyond Blasey Ford's allegations, moving immediately to interview another woman. Frank Figliuzzi & Barbara McQuade both join to discuss.

 

[CARIIS]

I need short baby answers

hard to ask questions when one is not really sure ehat they are asking

cause everything is a mess in my mind how all this works

randomly!

so witnesses in this tragedy:

if they say they are cooperating

can they say they wont go under oath

is that still considered cooperating

can they say they will cooperate and then take the fifth

the fifth stuff is insane

like with all the other DC stuff

if x happens and they try to plead the fifth they can go to jail

but in some other scenario they can plead the fifth and that is fine

so then with Judge he is at risk for being involved so does his lawyer try to tell them he will talk as long as he is under immunity

WIth the male bonding that this group apparently "did" much of it appears to be about conquest - so I really can imagine after she escaped from the rapist the conversation going like man i gave it to her she loved it bla bla

so then that could make all of em like accomplices or something

Calender: do any of you know the first and last names of the names on calendar

tia

 

[neesaki]

The report will NOT be made public

CNN

we just got to hope perjury stops this rapist from being on the SC

we have enough rapists in power already

Unless it's like everything else and gets leaked .

 

[CoolJ]

Right. But it’s also true that the committee didn’t get all the reports. And they received tens of thousands just hours before he was to be nominated.

Not all background checks in the years prior would have been as thorough, nor would they have disclosed as much, imo.

This committee, yes. But he has been investigated throughout his adult life, many different times.
I am not sticking up for this guy, i think he is a shmuck.

My only question about this is if he supposedly has a lifelong alcohol problem, why wasn't this discovered previously?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I didn't watch live coverage of testimony and have seen only excerpts covered by CNN or NBC. I have also not seen either of the high school yearbooks being referenced. Therefore, I have no way of knowing if either individual is lying about the content of their yearbooks. In the grand scheme of life, I don't place much significance on entries in someone's high school yearbook.

The clearest and most consistent detail to come from the yearbook is that there was an abundant party culture at the school, and Kavanaugh was a willing participant in it.

The only reason the yearbook became relevant was because, previously, Kavanaugh strongly denied the culture existed, and then denied he participated in it. Then he said he drank legally, which also wasn’t true.

That’s when schoolmates and others came forward, and his yearbook became public.

It’s a cause and effect scenario.

I don’t think many would have cared about the yearbook if he hadn’t so clearly and obviously misrepresented himself to begin with.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...h-drinking-20180925-story.html?outputType=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...minee-brett-kavanaugh-is-hard-to-believe.html

Local students, graduates talk about high school drinking culture in wake of Kavanaugh hearings

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...naughs-elite-high-school-world-214202993.html

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5409564/brett-kavanaugh-drinking-age-maryland

 

[fannneee]

The title of this tread is Supreme Court Nominee, not Brett Kavenaugh FBI investigation. So I don't think anyone is off topic to show evidence of why he is unsuited to the postition of Supreme Court Justice.

#1, Someone on this or the #1 thread posted "Falsus in uno, Falsus in omnibus." In that light I beleive that weather he is a liar or not reflects upon the veracity of his response to the sexual assault allegations. (let alone the coroboration of his heavy drinking)

#2. Brett Kavanaugh is not and will not be a non partisan arbiter.

"Both Ted and Brett had what one could only be called an unhealthy obsession with the Clintons — especially Hillary. While Ted was pushing through the Arkansas Project conspiracy theories claiming that Clinton White House lawyer and Hillary friend Vincent Foster was murdered (he committed suicide), Brett was costing taxpayers millions by pedaling the same garbage at Starr's office."

"Kavanaugh was not a dispassionate finder of fact but rather an engineer of a political smear campaign. And after decades of that, he expects people to believe he's changed his stripes."

Opinion | David Brock: The Brett Kavanaugh I knew shouldn't sit on the Supreme Court

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

This committee, yes. But he has been investigated throughout his adult life, many different times.
I am not sticking up for this guy, i think he is a shmuck.

My only question about this is if he supposedly has a lifelong alcohol problem, why wasn't this discovered previously?

It might have been discovered previously. We just don’t have the facts at hand right now to know either way, imo. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[Hope4More]

I need short baby answers

hard to ask questions when one is not really sure ehat they are asking

cause everything is a mess in my mind how all this works

randomly!

so witnesses in this tragedy:

if they say they are cooperating

can they say they wont go under oath

is that still considered cooperating

can they say they will cooperate and then take the fifth

the fifth stuff is insane

like with all the other DC stuff

if x happens and they try to plead the fifth they can go to jail

but in some other scenario they can plead the fifth and that is fine

so then with Judge he is at risk for being involved so does his lawyer try to tell them he will talk as long as he is under immunity

WIth the male bonding that this group apparently "did" much of it appears to be about conquest - so I really can imagine after she escaped from the rapist the conversation going like man i gave it to her she loved it bla bla

so then that could make all of em like accomplices or something

Calender: do any of you know the first and last names of the names on calendar

tia

Any and all cooperation with the FBI by witnesses (in this instance) is voluntary. The FBI cannot compel any witness to speak with them at all, much less to answer particular questions if witnesses don't want to .

That said, the FBI will report all their attempts to contact & ask witnesses to cooperate, and I'd imagine it would raise eyebrows if a witness agreed to cooperate but refused to answer directly relevant questions that in no way could implicate or cause damage to themselves.

 

[Jax49]

The focus on BK's yearbook became important because he LIED about what was in it. He lied about Renate Alumnus, Boof and Devils Triangle and everyone knows it. He is a compulsive liar and does not belong on the Supreme Court. Lying about a situation has gotten more polititians into trouble than what they were lying about. cough <Clinton> cough

I just rewatched his questioning re the yearbook by Sen. Whitehouse. Amazing...

Sen. Whitehouse questions Kavanaugh about his yearbook page

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Lol. He even notes how often he was grounded.

Analysis | Kavanaugh’s 1982 calendar, annotated

Among the people named repeatedly are Mark Judge (“Judge”), a classmate of Kavanaugh’s who is now a conservative writer — and who was said to have been at the party where the alleged assault occurred. Another alleged attendee was Patrick Smyth (“PJ”), also a classmate. There are also repeated references to Chris Garrett (“Squi”), who played on the football team with Kavanaugh.

​

 

[neesaki]

I knew I lived a sheltered life but I still find it very troubling that kids of high school age engage in such heavy drinking and wild partying, more akin to what I have heard goes on in college fraternities. And this was back in the 80's, what are they doing today? I may sound like a Puritan but I'm disgusted by it all. Not to mention, where the heck were the parents ?

 

[CoolJ]

I watched most of K's statement and questioning a second time. You pick up so much more the 2nd time through.
His demeanour whenever asked about alcohol definitely switches to anger or if he can hold the anger in, coyness.
He is doing his best to avoid having to perjure himself.
But absolutely he does not want to discuss alcohol.
However, he is firm and confident when he says he didn't sexually assault anyone.

My conclusion:

Blasey Ford truly believes that she was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Ford
Kavanaugh truly believes he did not, or at least cannot remember sexually assaulting anyone. But he is a blackout drunk and knows it is possible.

 

[mickey2942]

This committee, yes. But he has been investigated throughout his adult life, many different times.
I am not sticking up for this guy, i think he is a shmuck.

My only question about this is if he supposedly has a lifelong alcohol problem, why wasn't this discovered previously?

Unless it came up, like a DUI, and even that is not a big deal any longer, the background investigations don't really focus on drinking, unless it is an apparent, obvious problem. While a background investigation takes a significant amount of time, for the most part it is surface stuff, unless there is a glaring reason for further investigation.

Financial
Travel
Foriegn association
Obvious political affiliation, meaning extreme, like attending KKK rallies
Any crime aside from a minor traffic violation.
Past employment, especially if terminated, merits intensive investigation.

Mostly, even investigations for Top Secret, are surface based. Unless something comes up.

 

[fannneee]

I just rewatched his questioning re the yearbook by Sen. Whitehouse. Amazing...

Sen. Whitehouse questions Kavanaugh about his yearbook page

How can anyone watch his behaviour, arrogance, additude of entitlement, contempt, ridicule, demeanor and disrespect in that clip and think he is Supreme Court Justice material.

The republicans have jumped the shark with this one.

 

[Jax49]

I watched most of K's statement and questioning a second time. You pick up so much more the 2nd time through.
His demeanour whenever asked about alcohol definitely switches to anger or if he can hold the anger in, coyness.
He is doing his best to avoid having to perjure himself.
But absolutely he does not want to discuss alcohol.
However, he is firm and confident when he says he didn't sexually assault anyone.

My conclusion:

Blasey Ford truly believes that she was assaulted by Kavanaugh and Ford
Kavanaugh truly believes he did not, or at least cannot remember sexually assaulting anyone. But he is a blackout drunk and knows it is possible.

bbm

I believe you mean Kavanaugh and Mark Judge.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The last paragraph of Stage 4 is what resonates most with what I interpreted from Kavanaugh’s reactions during his testimony on Thursday:

“At this point, an individual’s life is centered around managing the consequences of their alcohol abuse. People may continue to compare themselves to the stereotypical alcoholics who have lost it all and assure themselves that is not who they are.”​

The 4 Stages Of Alcoholism For The Functioning Alcoholic

The term “functioning alcoholic” is generally used to avoid labeling someone as a stereotypical alcoholic. Alcohol is one of the most commonly abused substances and often has specific stereotypes linked to abuse of it.

When picturing someone struggling with alcohol addiction, it is common to imagine a disheveled, homeless person, or someone who has lost their home, family and other possessions due to their alcohol abuse. These stereotypes are only the end result of a much longer process, and they can mislead functioning alcoholics because their lives have yet to fit these stereotypes.

Someone who uses the term “functioning alcoholic” to define themselves may be in denial about the extent of their problem. The reality is that a functioning alcoholic can still be controlled by their alcohol abuse.

Ready to make a change?
Call to speak to a treatment specialist.

1-888-816-8415
Signs Of A Functioning Alcoholic
If alcohol abuse is suspected, there are a few signs that can indicate there is a problem.

Possible signs of a functioning alcoholic may include:

• if a person drinks alcohol to replace eating food.
• angry or defensive reactions when someone brings up the possibility of alcoholism.
• not being able to remember what happened while under the influence of alcohol.
• setting drinking limits and failing to stick to them.
• participating in “pre-drinking” before an evening out.
• attempting to hide drinking from others.
• drinking in the morning, throughout the day or while alone.
• joking about the possibility of being an alcoholic.

Alcoholism is a disease that slowly develops over time, not all at once. While everyone may experience this progression differently, there are four common stages people go through when becoming a functional alcoholic.

Stage #1: Occasional Alcohol Abuse And Binge Drinking
The first stage of alcoholism is a general experimentation with the substance. Individuals in this stage may not be familiar with different types of alcohol, so they are more likely to test their limits.

This stage of alcoholism is often defined by the goal of “drinking to get drunk.” People who abuse alcohol often use it to self-medicate and escape negative thoughts and feelings. This is how problem drinking starts.

Usually, people in the first stage of alcoholism are not drinking every day, and they are still able to perform daily activities. Although drinking may not consume their thoughts, they may need to drink more to reach the desired level of intoxication.

During this stage, someone may believe they are still functioning because they have a job and they are successfully maintaining relationships. In reality, this isn’t true, because after they consume their first alcoholic drink, they usually struggle to control their drinking.

Stage #2: Increased Drinking As A Coping Mechanism
The second stage of alcoholism is defined by the mental obsession with the next drink. Many people consume alcohol in order to relax and unwind. But, those struggling with alcohol abuse may see drinking as the only way to relieve stress.

Over time, other coping skills will fade away and all negative thoughts and feelings will be addressed by drinking alcohol. At this point, people may not be physically addicted to alcohol, but they may be psychologically dependent on it.

During this stage, outward appearances don’t change much, but individuals may be routinely hungover. This is often justified by saying they just like to “cut loose and party.”

Stage #3: The Consequences Of Problem Drinking Start To Show
The third stage of alcoholism is usually identified when others begin to show concern for someone’s drinking habits. For those struggling with alcohol abuse, stage three is all about managing the consequences of their drinking.

Individuals in this stage of alcoholism may try to set boundaries for themselves, but they will be unable to stick to them. Possible boundaries can include telling themselves, or someone else, they will only have a certain number of drinks and then stop, or they will drink only beer instead of hard liquor.

During this stage, individuals may feel like they are a “functioning alcoholic,” despite all the changes alcohol has caused them to make in their lives. These changes may include a new group of friends or frequently changing jobs.

At this point, an individual’s life is centered around managing the consequences of their alcohol abuse. People may continue to compare themselves to the stereotypical alcoholics who have lost it all and assure themselves that is not who they are.

This is scientific stuff there is not a 10% thing -- its out there in the addiction literature

The 4 Stages of Alcoholism for the Functioning Alcoholic