Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[WillenFan21]

Why would she need to go to those extremes in order to administer it, when it can be breathed in and rapidly produces unconsciousness, and then death. All that would take would be a cloth saturated in it, held over the mouth and nose.

Casey isn't very smart. You have to remember that her intention was to kill Caylee. She probably thought injection is what would kill her and that saturating the chloroform over the mouth would only put Caylee to sleep.

 

[JBean]

JBean, sometimes, I wonder if my thoughts and posts are at all mentally illuminating. Much worse, at other times, I fear they won't make the slightest difference to anyone's thought process. However, every so often, I receive a PM or read a post such as yours that gives me heart.

Moving back on track, my question for all readers is: was Casey known to drink blue Gatorade?

Rest assured I am mentally illuminated


No clue about the gatorade. You know if this was a different time of the year and a different geographical area I would guess the blue liquid was antifreeze.
I also am curious if the bottle was to be used as any kind of smoking device, like a water pipe and if the whole thing is drug related.

 

[panthera]

There is a difference between how medical people inject and how a murderer would inject.

Someone bent on murder could sit on the child and pin an arm down under each legs. The murderer would be left with both hands free to tape, inject or whatever.

A murderer wouldn't be kindly looking for veins in advance or where it wouldn't hurt. A neck vein would do. Misses wouldn't matter either.

jmo

(bolding mine)

You are so right ~ she wouldn't care how much it hurt. I was also thinking of a neck vein or the location just being close to heart or brain. MOO

 

[JBean]

But this thread is a discussion about the "possibilities" of what's been reported. I don't believe anyone has definitively formed an opinion about its connection to premeditation. I'm not sure why this is being brought up.

Some have referred to this bottle and syringe as the smoking gun.
It has already been brought up and implied that these results seal the deal.

 

[panthera]

bbm

I am wondering how chloroform could be put in a vein since it causes serious burns if it even touches the skin. I always thought it was only used as an inhalant for anesthesia.

That's what it's supposed to be used for. However killers are very deviant from the norm especially those who poison their victims. I definitely can see her injecting Caylee. MOO

 

[ZsaZsa]

Do we know where the syringe came from? Were there fingerprints on it? Had it been used before? This could explain why testosterone was in it, if she got the syringe from someone who had already used it. I bet all this is already known by LE.

Fortunately it was found inside it's packaging, so there may be a trace of whoever used it.

 

[ThoughtElf]

The syringe and the bottle both had the steroid stack in them. The syringe had ethanol. But it did not register for chloroform.

Val, I have the upmost respect for your work, so please don't take offense, but both Dogs & Bond have checked the ion tests for chloroform and noted the presence in the bottle 238.1. Problem is that the concentration value hasn't been surfaced yet. Open still for research & discussion?

I'll run & grab those posts.

Bond's support for Dog's work so far:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4403181&postcount=995"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform[/ame]

Dog's chloroform ion post:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402904&postcount=967"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform[/ame]

Methodology of the ion monitoring:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4403044#post4403044"]Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform - Page 40 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[aafromaa]

Can someone sum it up for me?

I took a new job a few weeks ago & have been working very very long hours and I haven't been able to keep up with what's going on in this case. I had some free time this afternoon and began reading this thread. I clicked on a link to a news report that said chlorform was found in the syringe and then began reading the posts from the beginning where everyone was convinced that this was the "thing" that was going to seal a conviction of pre-meditated murder for KC.

Then I clicked a few links that cited the lab reports that were released yesterday (I think). I admit that I skimmed them pretty quickly as I am pressed for time, but I didn't see anything like what the posts in the beginning or the news report I read were saying. I don't see a lab report that says there was chlorform in the syringe or even liquid in the syringe for that matter and I don't see where it says the syringe was in a Disney bag. Here's what I think I saw - an evidence list referencing a Disney bag (which I believe is Q105) which doesn't seem to me to be connected with the bottle (Q238) which contained liquid & 2 cardboard rolls & a plastic bag which contained a syringe. I also saw an "unknown liquid" (Q241) which was identified as having come from the vehicle (although I think I saw in a previous dump that this was from the scene) which had a strong odor similar to urine. And I saw a notation that chloroform was not identified with this liquid or with the doll (Q244) from the vehicle. I did not see a report stating that chloroform was found in the syringe or the liquid in bottle containing the bag containing the syringe and I don't know if I've missed something or if somewhere in this thread of over 1000 posts I will find that others have the same confusion as I do.

I really would like to know if this was all because a news report got it wrong or if there is something in the doc dump I haven't seen yet. Can someone just sum it up or give me some specific page numbers to review.

TIA - I would like to read every page of the doc dump but I don't even have time to read every page of this thread!

 

[RR0004]

ITA with both of you, and tried to present a biased view of this evidence, but got shot down, at the very nature of my questioning:waitasec: I think posters, for example, Wudge, help us to see beyond evidence, that appears to be so incriminating, but unravels to be nothing more than coincidence. I so appreciate the alternative mindset, as it stretches our minds to the reality of the situation

But...and this is a BIG but...we have no idea if the SA office is even interested in using this. Most of what I've read here is speculation about what it could mean. But, I for one don't have enough information. Trial will tell.

 

[ZsaZsa]

If the bottle/syringe was planted there later (shower day July 1) by Casey to frame Jesse, the Disney bag may make sense. She would likely be able to walk in a bit and recognize where Caylee was in the woods... she of course tosses the disney bag as close to her as possible...hoping if the body is found, so will the evidence in the bag with latents and dna and Chloroform of the true killer.... Remember Cindy claims Jesse has a key to Casey's car...and used the computer in the home..(remember Cindy says she caught him?) So this is all 3 locations of Chloroform covered. She may have mentioned the computer only to show he may have used it in the past also.

Yes, when Cindy mentions someone else on the periphery of this case, it is never a casual reference, but always intended to draw attention to their potential for being motivated or involved in Caylee's death.

 

[Imbackon]

"Regardless of why it came about, the effect of a wrongful conviction on the defendant or defendants and their family or families is ghastly. A jury is one of the last line of defense against a wrongful conviction, but few jurors see their role as a juror that way."

Since this OT is being allowed, I think it is only fair to SPEAK FOR THE VICTIMS.

Do you ever think of the effect of watching the guilty walk free?
There are two sides to this coin you know!

 

[whiteangora]

That's what it's supposed to be used for. However killers are very deviant from the norm especially those who poison their victims. I definitely can see her injecting Caylee. MOO

The poster I was quoting said this:
"When it was used as an anesthetic, it was put in the vein."

That is what I was disputing, God knows Casey is capable of anything but I still do not buy the syringe w/ chloroform to kill Caylee scenerio.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I think that if the bottle/syringe cannot be directly linked to KC, it will never show up in the trial. The prosecution needs to be cautious about what they present at trial from amongst the literally thousands of bits of stuff removed from the swampy woods.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I don't know how possible this would be... but, what if Casey duct taped Caylee's mouth and nose and inserted the syringe directly into the duct tape for Caylee to swallow without any means of her spitting it out?

How would chloroform effect someone (especially a child) if it was ingested?

Maybe the heart shaped sticker was to seal the hole the needle made in the duct tape?

Just throwing this out there. I don't know how possible it would be... just a random thought.

 

[RR0004]

Can someone sum it up for me?

I took a new job a few weeks ago & have been working very very long hours and I haven't been able to keep up with what's going on in this case. I had some free time this afternoon and began reading this thread. I clicked on a link to a news report that said chlorform was found in the syringe and then began reading the posts from the beginning where everyone was convinced that this was the "thing" that was going to seal a conviction of pre-meditated murder for KC.

Then I clicked a few links that cited the lab reports that were released yesterday (I think). I admit that I skimmed them pretty quickly as I am pressed for time, but I didn't see anything like what the posts in the beginning or the news report I read were saying. I don't see a lab report that says there was chlorform in the syringe or even liquid in the syringe for that matter and I don't see where it says the syringe was in a Disney bag. Here's what I think I saw - an evidence list referencing a Disney bag (which I believe is Q105) which doesn't seem to me to be connected with the bottle (Q238) which contained liquid & 2 cardboard rolls & a plastic bag which contained a syringe. I also saw an "unknown liquid" (Q241) which was identified as having come from the vehicle (although I think I saw in a previous dump that this was from the scene) which had a strong odor similar to urine. And I saw a notation that chloroform was not identified with this liquid or with the doll (Q244) from the vehicle. I did not see a report stating that chloroform was found in the syringe or the liquid in bottle containing the bag containing the syringe and I don't know if I've missed something or if somewhere in this thread of over 1000 posts I will find that others have the same confusion as I do.

I really would like to know if this was all because a news report got it wrong or if there is something in the doc dump I haven't seen yet. Can someone just sum it up or give me some specific page numbers to review.

TIA - I would like to read every page of the doc dump but I don't even have time to read every page of this thread!

Well...there are links to pages that show there was chloroform...and testosterone...and ethanol. Personally, when I first heard about the chloroform I automatically tied it to Casey. But, IMO...from what we know now report-wise there's now way of knowing how or if it's going to be used as evidence of anything. Sorry I couldn't be of more help...this has left me with one gigundo headache.

 

[ThoughtElf]

What is it going to be like for the jurors? Here at WS we have the luxury of poring over the documents, going back and forth on them, access to the internet to look up resources, etc. and last, but certainly not least, the fantastic input from everyone at WS.

I find myself worried that IF this evidence is brought into play at the trial, jurors are going to be confused as all get out BEFORE the defense has their own experts refute the findings or starts claiming contamination, etc.

I know what made me decide she was guilty - and that was long before any reports came out. However, jurors are required to take all the evidence presented into consideration. I do not want to get into a discussion of jurors and evidence in general, please. What I would like to know is what everyone's opinion is about how this will play to a jury IF it is introduced.

I understand the caution & concern, however, the jury will benefit by having experts from both the defense & the prosecution to highlight the key-notes of the findings in layman's terms. The jurors won't be forced to run off and Google PE/PI methods.

We're on our own cast in a sea of research, but the jury won't be.

Have ye faith!

 

[WillenFan21]

That's what it's supposed to be used for. However killers are very deviant from the norm especially those who poison their victims. I definitely can see her injecting Caylee. MOO

I agree. I def think she injected her with it.

Casey's intention was to murder Caylee. I don't think that she knew that breathing in a massive amount of chloroform could kill a person. It is in my opinion that Casey thought breathing it in would only put you to sleep. I think that is why she went with injection because she thought by actually injecting it into Caylee it would kill her cause that was the intention all along. The Gatorade bottle was probably used to put the chloroform liquid in so that she could fill up the syringe. Her injecting Caylee with needle could explain why there was blood found on some of the stuff found with Caylee's body. If you hit the wrong vein you bleed a lot . Especially if she injected it into the artery in the neck the blood just shoots out of you.

 

[panthera]

The poster I was quoting said this:
"When it was used as an anesthetic, it was put in the vein."

That is what I was disputing, God knows Casey is capable of anything but I still do not buy the syringe w/ chloroform to kill Caylee scenerio.

I understand. The biggest question I have is how neatly it was put back into the container, and so forth. It just seems if it had been used to administer that lethal dose, it would've been discarded more randomly, and not repackaged. Also, why put it near the remains? How stupid is that? But then, if she was in a hurry, she probably wanted to get rid of everything ~ fast. MOO

 

[Imbackon]

Val, I have the upmost respect for your work, so please don't take offense, but both Dogs & Bond have checked the ion tests for chloroform and noted the presence in the bottle 238.1. Problem is that the concentration value hasn't been surfaced yet. Open still for research & discussion?

I'll run & grab those posts.

Bond's support for Dog's work so far:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

Dog's chloroform ion post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

Methodology of the ion monitoring:
Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform - Page 40 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

So these posts do not get lost in thread he77, can they be moved to the EVIDENCE thread when all is said and done regarding whether or not there was or was not chloroform in the gatorade bottle and the syringe?

 

[Valhall]

Val, I have the upmost respect for your work, so please don't take offense, but both Dogs & Bond have checked the ion tests for chloroform and noted the presence in the bottle 238.1. Problem is that the concentration value hasn't been surfaced yet. Open still for research & discussion?

I'll run & grab those posts.

Bond's support for Dog's work so far:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

Dog's chloroform ion post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

Methodology of the ion monitoring:
Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform - Page 40 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I'm definitely still open - that's why I'm here! BUT - those posts don't say anything but about what they are looking for.

Here's the deal. If Dog and Bond have found where the testing showed a reportable measure of chloroform in 240.1.1, and then didn't report it in the summary for the test method, then my humble request is that they screencap the exact test result they are referring to. Because right now all I see are them explaining what should be looked for - not what was found.