Tape Discussion#2- Anthony's hired DC to find Caylee dead or alive *CLIP ADDED*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
It does seem specific, but wrong. The body was not alongside a building. It's either an accurate tip for some item(s) other than the body, or it's a completely wrong tip.

I don't think we can rule out the possibility that the tip(s) that DC is following up on did not originally come from KC.

Did you watch the whole tape? They weren't always at the building, in fact they were at one point only feet away from Caylee's remains. There may have been something else she discarded in or around that building.
 
This tape doesn't prove or disprove anything - it's virtually worthless. On the 15th it shows the PI meandering around an abandoned house and the area around it, opening garbage bags with a knife and turning over other garbage lying around. At one point he is shown on the phone - again, this means nothing - even if he was on the phone with any of the Anthonys, including KC, if they don't have a recorded conversation, it wouldn't be admissable in court - anything said could be contradicted by either party, no jury would give weight to that testimony. There is no systematic, gridded search for anything, much less a body.

The next day shows the PI in an area similar to where the body was found - again, this doesn't prove or disprove any evidence - it doesn't show the PI finding anything, it doesn't show him removing anything and it doesn't show him hiding or bringing anything to the scene. He's not talking to anyone at this location, all it shows is him probing the ground in several places, again in no systematic, gridded pattern. It also shows him at this site for only seconds, which wouldn't constitute a "search" to any reasonable person. Even if he had been there for weeks at a time, the tape only reveals him to be there seconds, and not blocks of time that would indicate any kind of search, other than cursory.

So to recap, what do we have here? Well, nothing. Anything that LP said Hoover told him is hearsay and not admissable in court. We have a PI working for the Anthonys doing a somewhat desultory search of two different areas, neither of which have been confirmed as the body dumping site. We have a person who claims to be a volunteer for the Anthonys with no other known association with this case shopping around a "world exclusive" of another person shoving a stick in the ground. This tape is worthless to the investigation, it is worthless to the prosecution and it is worthless to the defense. Even if the Anthonys told the PI that the body was there it means nothing because the body wasn't found in either of those areas. If the body had been found in either area, the media would have snapped that up in a heartbeat.

And here's something else to consider - if the tape had been turned over to LE, then how did the Anthonys get it to release it free from any licensing fee? Wouldn't it stand to reason that LE gave them a copy of the tape? Otherwise, we have to think that there is more than one copy of this "world exclusive" floating around.

I could almost agree with the tape being worthless because of this post..however, you have an attorney on TV arguing over the rights of this tape. If it didn't hold anything of value, why the hell waste your time on fighting over the rights for it? Wouldn't your time be well served dealing with the deposition coming up of your clients in a civil suit? There is more to this tape than what we seen for BC to threaten to have someone's license revoked. JMHO
 
I agree he was looking for something specific.Could it be possible that KC told lee where the body is but animals moved the bag,as horrible as that is i am sure animals were at the bag right away. they may could have dragged it from the spot and thats why DC could not find it.

In the taped part from 11/16, DC is poking the bags with a long (appears to be metal) rod.....just poking and moving on to the next without really looking in bags. What would he have been looking for by this method???? That would seem to indicate that he was checking for something hard or immovablle :waitasec:. Or something very squishy (gulp).:confused: Doesn't make sense to me...maybe one of you have a theory?
 
I have to respectfully disagree. If they found only a small piece or two and the rest of the remains were underwater...they would have had to wait anyway. Or maybe they only found a piece or two of evidence at the scene at the time.
 
It is quite possible that the MR (or someone near him) called the Anthonys anonymously. I would actually not expect him to tell the Anthonys that his name is Roy Kronk and he works as a meter reader for OC. If this is what happened, then the A's could honestly only say that they received an anonymous tip that seemed credible.

I'm sure if they got a tip about it they wouldn't be pretending it was about proving it was a teen hangout! Also, if MR tipped them, of course the As would have said so by now. They know how this looks and are asking for immunity, for a reason.
 
I agree! Last I remember, DC was looking for an alive Caylee!
Dead or Alive my a$$! The Anthony's would have fired him before he got started good if he told them he was looking for anything other than an alive Caylee!
This whole thing just gets sicker! Poor child!

So the games continue.If there was a chance the A's would regain the public's confidence that they would start telling the truth,they just blew it.
I hope LE doesn't even bother with another interview.Talking to the A's : a waste,a huge waste.
 
OK, I may be off base but here is what I think.

I think LA decided early in that he was going to be the one to get KC to tell where the body was. He realized that he was only going to be successful if she fully believed he was telling everyone that he was searching for a live Caylee, while he was doing his "own investigation" trying to figure out her clues. I think at some point he told GA and CA that he believed KC's clues meant Caylee was dead, but he told them to keep up the pretense that they were looking for a live Caylee. I believe this heart-to-heart came AFTER the tapes were released of CA's giving LE the binder of "evidence" suggesting that KC was saying "Zanny" but maybe meant something else, and BEFORE the PIs went to tape.

I think GA believed him, I think CA kind of believed him. But I think neither of them wanted to believe him, who would?

I think LA carried on his "own investigation", probably reading every word about cell phone pings and maybe watching his OWN tapes of conversations with KC and trying to decipher the code. I think that it is particularly interesting when LA tells KC to send a copy of her letter through Baez AND through the prison mail. *IF* she did that, I am sure that someone else besides LA and JB have where the body was in her own handwriting. :woohoo:If she didn't, I think at the very least JB knew that she knew where the body was. I would imagine many, many defense attorneys know this about their clients. And obviously, this is not illegal for him to know and do nothing.

However, I firmly believe that LA's intention all along was to get the remains found, give Caylee some dignity, and end the circus. We all saw what it was doing to his family. I think he knew that he was the only one who could possibly fix this. KC couldn't tell LE where the body was, because she is "not guilty". She couldn't tell LA, GA, or CA directly because LE are recording every word. She could tell JB, but he would be a fool to let that out. But if LA could convince her that he intends to find the remains and get rid of them, then he becomes helpful to the defense. The defense then can ask PI Casey (and whatever videographer he can find) to go video the location and see if they find anything. The video is helpful to JB if for some reason DC does not find the remains.

I think DC is excited by the assignment, because he knows then what no one else in the world at that time knew for sure - that Caylee was definitely deceased. I don't think he was told to get rid of the remains, because I don't think JB would risk the possibility that DC would go public with that. JB just wants them to FIND them. DC calls LP all excited. Then they don't find anything. I think they then show the video to KC and have her clarify looking at the images. And they go out again. Still nothing. JB gives up, figures LA was reading the clues wrong or KC is just spinning more lies. GA and CA probably also are wondering if LA is right or if maybe they could hope that Caylee was alive again? But DC is not convinced... he goes back a couple more times to look, still nothing.

Then I think LA got something else from KC... a letter maybe? Or maybe some insight from JB? Something that firmed up his idea of where the remains were. Then somehow he gets MR to that spot. I like the connection between the MR supervisor and the Anthony's, but I am not sure. I think MR was helping LA, and I think LA's plan was to have them found "anonymously" thereby not alerting KC that he betrayed her, but ending the insanity. And I think LE learned about the connection between LA and MR immediately following the discovery of the remains. I think LE realized that LA was on the "good side" even though he was going around LE, he did it because he had to. I think MR really wanted to be anonymous, so that the connection with LA would not come out, but it did. LA lawyered up for this reason, but now it is pretty clear that LE does not intend to charge MR or LA with anything.

Inmate KC freaks out when the remains are found, because she hoped LA would get rid of them before they were found by anyone else.

JB is mad at DC though, because DC says he searched but the body wasn't there. JB encourages him to say that publicly, because that would be good for the defense, especially if the tapes are erased so he can't prove it. DC can stand up at trial and say he looked around that whole area and found nothing. JB doesn't stop to think that DC saying this also notes that they were searching for remains. DC does go public, even though he has no proof. LE insists on seeing the tape and speaking to the two of them. I can totally buy the claims that they taped over it - no reason to keep it if they found nothing... the tape was worthless at that point. From November 16th to December 11th, that tape had no value at all. However, it is obvious now that he did not tape over ALL of it. So he hands over the tape to LE, and gives his version of how this went down - I think he probably told the truth.

Around this time he realizes that everyone wants a copy of this tape and he can ask for the big bucks, because he has it. So he tries. And the A's find out and are mad... they don't want him making a King's Ransom off of Caylee... So they insert themselves (via BC) as the rightful owners of the tape and authorize GR to show it for free. Are they the rightful owners? Probably not. But since GR did not actually agree to JH's price, I don't see that JH could sue anyone - he didn't lose anything.

I am always surprised when I see posters here so angry with the A's. It seems so clear to me that they were walking a tightrope to get KC trusting them long enough for LA to get the location. Then they cut her off. I don't see them wanting big bucks for the tape or any notoriety at all after the remains were found. And people point to their insistence on checking out their "sightings"... but yet... they kept running into walls when they were trying to get more information on those... do we know for a fact that they made any real effort with LE to check into any of the sightings after, say, October? They could go on TV and *talk* about sightings and how difficult it was to get the mall to hand over their tapes, but I am not convinced they were really trying. Just acting, so KC would trust LA was not telling them the truth. I don't think a single person besides KC knew precisely where that bag was prior to the day it was found. They had hunches, clues, strong reasons to believe, but no proof until the day MR called it in. I can't see why any of these people need to be arrested.

Someone poke some holes in my theory, I am home with a sick kid today and have all day to think about this. :D
 
The attorney arguing about ownership of this tape has allowed it to be seen, without his first viewing it because it shows nothing and the Anthonys don't want anyone profiting from the death of this child. If anyone loses his license it will be Hoover for shopping around work product he doesn't own. If you volunteer to work for someone, then you are working for them, it doesn't matter if you get paid or not.
 
I do remember, yet I still don't see the area not being roped off in any way. Tim would know that even the slightest chance of anyone going into that area for any other reason would compromise the remains. I don't think that it would have went unblocked from the public just to seek surveillance of anyone else. I personally feel that Tim would have parked his motor home there and waited for the water to go down before he would allow the public access to an area he had found any part of Caylee in..JMHO

I'm sure if they found anything in that area they would have drained the water off.It can be done.They drain entire ponds.
No way would TM or LE leave a body out there.Tim's daughter was left and I just don't believe he would let that happen to another child.LE would want whatever evidence the body held because every day that goes by you risk losing it to decomposition.
This area was a low priority because of the cell phone pings and the decomp in the car suggesting KC moved Caylee away from the home.
 
Interesting that Conway is claiming ownership by virtue of the fact that Hoover worked for Casey, and Casey worked for the As. Casey vehemently denied Hoover ever worked for him.

I agree and it was the FIRST thing that caught my attention from the video. I remember the interview of DC saying that when this video first came up. Are we supposed to have forgotten he said that JH NEVER worked for D&A investigations? My memory isn't THAT short. :rolleyes:

The second, that they know who he was on the phone with.

It's a complete joke that DC was supposed to be looking for Caylee dead or alive. He even said she was alive, he had all these leads! Phony photographs, false tips. The A's would have tossed him on his hiney if they even thought he was looking for a dead Caylee.
 
This tape doesn't prove or disprove anything - it's virtually worthless. On the 15th it shows the PI meandering around an abandoned house and the area around it, opening garbage bags with a knife and turning over other garbage lying around. At one point he is shown on the phone - again, this means nothing - even if he was on the phone with any of the Anthonys, including KC, if they don't have a recorded conversation, it wouldn't be admissable in court - anything said could be contradicted by either party, no jury would give weight to that testimony. There is no systematic, gridded search for anything, much less a body.

The next day shows the PI in an area similar to where the body was found - again, this doesn't prove or disprove any evidence - it doesn't show the PI finding anything, it doesn't show him removing anything and it doesn't show him hiding or bringing anything to the scene. He's not talking to anyone at this location, all it shows is him probing the ground in several places, again in no systematic, gridded pattern. It also shows him at this site for only seconds, which wouldn't constitute a "search" to any reasonable person. Even if he had been there for weeks at a time, the tape only reveals him to be there seconds, and not blocks of time that would indicate any kind of search, other than cursory.

So to recap, what do we have here? Well, nothing. Anything that LP said Hoover told him is hearsay and not admissable in court. We have a PI working for the Anthonys doing a somewhat desultory search of two different areas, neither of which have been confirmed as the body dumping site. We have a person who claims to be a volunteer for the Anthonys with no other known association with this case shopping around a "world exclusive" of another person shoving a stick in the ground. This tape is worthless to the investigation, it is worthless to the prosecution and it is worthless to the defense. Even if the Anthonys told the PI that the body was there it means nothing because the body wasn't found in either of those areas. If the body had been found in either area, the media would have snapped that up in a heartbeat.

And here's something else to consider - if the tape had been turned over to LE, then how did the Anthonys get it to release it free from any licensing fee? Wouldn't it stand to reason that LE gave them a copy of the tape? Otherwise, we have to think that there is more than one copy of this "world exclusive" floating around.

I think you are confused. They were just feet away from the body. And according to BC, they don't have the tape and only saw it for the first time last night. LE can't give them the tape until after the Judge determines the privilege issues (as per Court last week).
 
I could almost agree with the tape being worthless because of this post..however, you have an attorney on TV arguing over the rights of this tape. If it didn't hold anything of value, why the hell waste your time on fighting over the rights for it? Wouldn't your time be well served dealing with the deposition coming up of your clients in a civil suit? There is more to this tape than what we seen for BC to threaten to have someone's license revoked. JMHO

I hope JH sues BC and the As for slander/defamation. Is BC seriously suggesting he will report him to the PI governing body for not assisting his clients with keeping hidden, the body of a 2 year old? I'd like to see him argue that it was wrong for JH to let LE know about this....lol.
 
The attorney arguing about ownership of this tape has allowed it to be seen, without his first viewing it because it shows nothing and the Anthonys don't want anyone profiting from the death of this child. If anyone loses his license it will be Hoover for shopping around work product he doesn't own. If you volunteer to work for someone, then you are working for them, it doesn't matter if you get paid or not.

DC denied he worked for him on national tv, or did you miss that? BC claims JH did work for DC (maybe he missed DC's interview or figured we would forget about that). The As claim THEY DON"T have the tape and only saw it for the first time yesterday. So why do you keep saying the As gave it to fox for free???? Link please.
 
It doesn't matter if they were one foot away from the body, there is absolutely no proof that they found anything. How do you know they were only feet away from the body? There's no proof that they were anywhere near the body from what the tape showed.

Secondly LE certainly could have shown or given a copy of the tape to the As. First of all, it belongs to the As, secondly how would they have known that the PI was talking to anyone, much less to whom unless they saw it or knew what was on it so who showed them the tape? If LE was in possession of the tape last week, then they could have made countless copies of the tape and distributed it or shown it to a number of people.

The tape is worthless, it proves nothing.

p.s. Of course DC said that Hoover wasn't working for him - he wasn't. He volunteered to work for the Anthonys and whether you're paid or not, the work product belongs to the Anthonys because he was employed by the Anthonys at the time the tape was made.
 
It doesn't matter if they were one foot away from the body, there is absolutely no proof that they found anything. How do you know they were only feet away from the body? There's no proof that they were anywhere near the body from what the tape showed.
Secondly LE certainly could have shown or given a copy of the tape to the As. First of all, it belongs to the As, secondly how would they have known that the PI was talking to anyone, much less to whom unless they saw it or knew what was on it so who showed them the tape? If LE was in possession of the tape last week, then they could have made countless copies of the tape and distributed it or shown it to a number of people.

The tape is worthless, it proves nothing.


????? Have you watched the tape we are discussing? The one where they are within feet of Caylee's body. There is a thread discussing it if you need to get on top of it.

You say it belongs to the As....on what basis? Do you say DC was lying when he denied JH worked for him? He even threatened to sue JH for the lie. Do you not think LE should have the tape?

And no, LE can't do that....you might want to check the thread from last week's court hearing, in particular, re how the Judge dealt with JB's application to have a master appointed. Or are you saying they would act in contempt and defiance of the Judge's orders and start distributing copies of the tape? Why would they do that?
 
It doesn't matter if they were one foot away from the body, there is absolutely no proof that they found anything. How do you know they were only feet away from the body? There's no proof that they were anywhere near the body from what the tape showed.

Secondly LE certainly could have shown or given a copy of the tape to the As. First of all, it belongs to the As, secondly how would they have known that the PI was talking to anyone, much less to whom unless they saw it or knew what was on it so who showed them the tape? If LE was in possession of the tape last week, then they could have made countless copies of the tape and distributed it or shown it to a number of people.

The tape is worthless, it proves nothing.

p.s. Of course DC said that Hoover wasn't working for him - he wasn't. He volunteered to work for the Anthonys and whether you're paid or not, the work product belongs to the Anthonys because he was employed by the Anthonys at the time the tape was made.


My bold

I respectfully disagree. I think JH can say the tape was made on his own time. The A's never asked for them to find a dead Caylee supposedly. Remember DC was "proving Casey's kidnap story to be true" as CA said on LKL. I don't think they can claim work product on this one. DC said JH never worked for him, so I think JH can say whatever he wants and get away with it. He can say he wasn't there at the Anthony's direction, even if DC was on th phone with them. JH wasn't, he didn't talk to the A's about this search at all from what I understand.

JMO
 
I'm a totally novice sleuth and I don't know as many details as most people here but this is what I'm thinking about today.

Let's give the A's the benefit of the doubt for a moment. Couldn't it be that RK called in a tip to the A's, they sent DC and JH to check it out. DC and JK made a video of themselves searching for Caylee (and perhaps for the missing blackjack), but they didn't find anything because they were just a few feet off. With all that vegetation and with plants growing through the remains, I think the site could have been easy to miss.

Disheartened, the A's assume the tip from RK was bogus, so they continue following the other leads they have, but they are losing hope (hence CA's appearance). Then on December 11th, RK goes into the woods himself because he knows what he saw and where. He finds the remains, reports it to LE. The A's know about the PI video and how this is going to look so they seek immunity.

Plausible?

WOW...... What's this now? Someone who is thinking logically, taking time to reasonably look at the apparent facts, and not reading anything into them that is likely not there?

It seems MORE than reasonable that RK became frustrated with LE, called the tip into the other number, sees that even THEY can't find it and finally risks going back there by himself.
 
Ok. TOTALLY Confused here. questions, please:
If they were only feet from where her body was found, why didn't they find it when they were videotaping? What is being suggested? That her body was placed there after the videotaping? Or that they missed her body? How could one miss it? What do all the shed/building photo's with the rubbish bags have to do with "proof" that they knew where they were going when in fact Caylee's body was not near any building at all? It was in the woods. Right? Thanks to whomever can clear this up for me...as I've read through all the posts here and am only confused further with all the hypotheticals and facts mixed together.
 
Just wanted to mention what I heard on local radio. 104.1 one of the news reporters Amy Caufeld (sp?) said that she heard there is an offer of up to $20k for one particular still from the Hoover video. No mention of to whom the offer was made. There must be some still that holds something of extreme interest to someone.
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
179
Guests online
1,758
Total visitors
1,937

Forum statistics

Threads
601,368
Messages
18,123,651
Members
231,030
Latest member
Ouisie
Back
Top